2018 Offseason Thread

[slick_watts]

i'm not even concerned with the cancer stuff. i'm concerned with westbrook-schroder lineups. how is that supposed to work? you're marginalizing one of their skillsets when you put them out there. neither of them are off ball players and neither provides much in the way of defensive aptitude or effort.

[bondom34]

I don't.really think he will be an issue either.

He just sucks and doesn't fit with Russ. At least Felton had that going a little.

And the pick is not ideal, if this was the trade I don't like that part.

[Thunder Up]

I don't.really think he will be an issue either.

He just sucks and doesn't fit with Russ. At least Felton had that going a little.

And the pick is not ideal, if this was the trade I don't like that part.

It's clear to me you've never really watched Schroder play, and I can't stop laughing at how Felton fits with Russ but Dennis doesn't

[Pillendreher]

And this:



But I don't have/use IG so I'm taking this all at face value. Not exactly the reaction of someone who is planning on bitching about minutes or crying tears of joy to be sent to Detroit.

They promised him the world, didn't they.

They promised him he wouldn't have to play for a trash franchise that doesn't want to win basketball games or retain their talent

Oh, nice. That will help when he plays 30 minutes a night and Westbrook-Schröder is getting an insane amount of minutes.

[Dadouv47]

I like the trade. We knew we were not gonna get a lot in return for Melo so that's the main reason. I believe Schroeder is better than most people think here (even if he's overpaid). I also think OKC is a great organization and Russ and PG13 can help him to be more mature. We will see the fit with Westbrook but we have finally some scoring coming from the bench and that's pretty good (not for 15 millions but hey, that's the price to pay to get rid of Melo).

[bondom34]

I don't.really think he will be an issue either.

He just sucks and doesn't fit with Russ. At least Felton had that going a little.

And the pick is not ideal, if this was the trade I don't like that part.

It's clear to me you've never really watched Schroder play, and I can't stop laughing at how Felton fits with Russ but Dennis doesn't

Tell me how the spacing works with those two and Roberson. Because maybe I'm missing it.

And yes I've seen him play. He's an overpaid backup, just like Reggie Jackson.

[oreojenkins]

Reggie v. Schroder through first 5 seasons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Dennis+Schroder&player_id1_select=Dennis+Schroder&y1=2018&player_id1=schrode01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Reggie+Jackson&player_id2_select=Reggie+Jackson&y2=2016&player_id2=jacksre01&idx=players

Was Reggie a "bad fit" with Westbrook? Those numbers are remarkably similar, and there's no doubt in my mind Presti is planning on Schroder having a similar role as Reggie did. They want to run and move the ball. Having someone else out there who can create with Russ and/or PG is nice.

If we start with a baseline of we're stretching Melo, then Schroder only adds $5 million + tax hit per season for 3 years. I think that's a worthwhile investment. If there were better deals out there, that's another issue, but we have no idea what was in play.

Schroder catching a bad rap so far with our fans it seems.

[slick_watts]

Reggie v. Schroder through first 5 seasons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Dennis+Schroder&player_id1_select=Dennis+Schroder&y1=2018&player_id1=schrode01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Reggie+Jackson&player_id2_select=Reggie+Jackson&y2=2016&player_id2=jacksre01&idx=players

Was Reggie a "bad fit" with Westbrook? Those numbers are remarkably similar, and there's no doubt in my mind Presti is planning on Schroder having a similar role as Reggie did. They want to run and move the ball. Having someone else out there who can create with Russ and/or PG is nice.

If we start with a baseline of we're stretching Melo, then Schroder only adds $5 million + tax hit per season for 3 years. I think that's a worthwhile investment. If there were better deals out there, that's another issue, but we have no idea what was in play.

Schroder catching a bad rap so far with our fans it seems.

reggie has been horrible the last two seasons. he was much better before that. it's a disingenuous comparison. there was also some other guy on our team back then that may have made such a lineup more tenable.

$5 million + tax hit is nearly $20 million each of the next two seasons. qualifying that with 'only' is also disingenuous.

[alessandrux]

I don't.really think he will be an issue either.

He just sucks and doesn't fit with Russ. At least Felton had that going a little.

And the pick is not ideal, if this was the trade I don't like that part.

It's clear to me you've never really watched Schroder play, and I can't stop laughing at how Felton fits with Russ but Dennis doesn't

I have to admit that I haven't watched Schröder that much, especially last season.
So I would be thrilled to hear how Schröder helps us? I am very willing to get some input.

In my opinion he only furthers problems we already have: no floor-spacing/crowding the inside, subpar ball-movement (or running elaborate schemes).
At least Felton was somewhat of a floor spacer (at our level of outside threats at least), which made him being able to play alongside Westbrook (a little).
Compared to Felton Schröder might be a better ball handler (highly arguable in my opinion), a better defender(also only marginal) and a better scorer from the bench.

I expect that his bench scoring helps us a lot in the regular season (and might give Westbrook some well-needed rest). But in the playoffs he will only be a net positive when Westbrook sits, which will be less than 10 minutes if we really have to face tough opponents.

[Thunder Up]

I don't.really think he will be an issue either.

He just sucks and doesn't fit with Russ. At least Felton had that going a little.

And the pick is not ideal, if this was the trade I don't like that part.

It's clear to me you've never really watched Schroder play, and I can't stop laughing at how Felton fits with Russ but Dennis doesn't

Tell me how the spacing works with those two and Roberson. Because maybe I'm missing it.

And yes I've seen him play. He's an overpaid backup, just like Reggie Jackson.

As of this point he is remains a fringe starting caliber PG who is still only 24.
With OKC he gives them the best back-up PG in the league.

Raymond Felton is a mediocre three point shooter, and he and Schroder probably have the same career 3%. Felton has zero explosiveness to catch a Westbrook pass and do something with it off the dribble especially compared to what Schroder could do with it.

So again, tell me how Dennis doesn't fit alongside Russ but Felton did?

Again very clear you've never watched him play. You're telling me we can get 10-15mpg of a Schroder and Noel PnR instead of the trash that's been going on the last three years?

[slick_watts]

With OKC he gives them the best back-up PG in the league.

[bondom34]

It's clear to me you've never really watched Schroder play, and I can't stop laughing at how Felton fits with Russ but Dennis doesn't

Tell me how the spacing works with those two and Roberson. Because maybe I'm missing it.

And yes I've seen him play. He's an overpaid backup, just like Reggie Jackson.

As of this point he is remains a fringe starting caliber PG who is still only 24.
With OKC he gives them the best back-up PG in the league.

Raymond Felton is a mediocre three point shooter, and he and Schroder probably have the same career 3%. Felton has zero explosiveness to catch a Westbrook pass and do something with it off the dribble especially compared to what Schroder could do with it.

So again, tell me how Dennis doesn't fit alongside Russ but Felton did?

Again very clear you've never watched him play. You're telling me we can get 10-15mpg of a Schroder and Noel PnR instead of the trash that's been going on the last three years?

Felton shot six percent better last year and Schroder wasn't playing like a friend starter. He was playing.like a straight backup. He's paid like kanter and they gave up a pick just like for Kanter. This is a strange mirror to that deal.

But again please explain how the spacing looks with those two and Roberson. You didn't answer.

[No-Man]

Eating 8m$ more for TLC and Schröder this year... + whatever that costs in the tax... well, not sure it's something that will add that level of value to the team, but heck, if the owners are willing to burn money, that's their prerogative, this team is in the repeater already, gonna be in the tax likely the next 2 years too

The other angle is that 6.5m$ per year is what Schröder costs really over Melo's stretch, so it ain't a huge difference and that money is okay for a back-up PG+he might also actually play hard, improve and get traded for future value, who knows

I guess the rotation is mainly these 9 gentlemen;

Westbrook-Schröder
George-Schröder
Roberson-Abrines
Grant-Patterson
Adams-Noel

[Thunder Up]

Tell me how the spacing works with those two and Roberson. Because maybe I'm missing it.

And yes I've seen him play. He's an overpaid backup, just like Reggie Jackson.

As of this point he is remains a fringe starting caliber PG who is still only 24.
With OKC he gives them the best back-up PG in the league.

Raymond Felton is a mediocre three point shooter, and he and Schroder probably have the same career 3%. Felton has zero explosiveness to catch a Westbrook pass and do something with it off the dribble especially compared to what Schroder could do with it.

So again, tell me how Dennis doesn't fit alongside Russ but Felton did?

Again very clear you've never watched him play. You're telling me we can get 10-15mpg of a Schroder and Noel PnR instead of the trash that's been going on the last three years?

Felton shot six percent better last year and Schroder wasn't playing like a friend starter. He was playing.like a straight backup. He's paid like kanter and they gave up a pick just like for Kanter. This is a strange mirror to that deal.

But again please explain how the spacing looks with those two and Roberson. You didn't answer.

It works the exact same as it did last year with Felton, one of them stands on the wing, Roberson stands in the corner. Schroder had a down year behind the arc, will probably shooting 32-35% again from there this coming season in OKC and 40% on catch and shoot opportunities from there... not to mention again his ability to attack a defender off a close out.

Oh and guess what having an actual quality PG who plays in a similar way does? It allows Russ to not have to play 35+ MPG, Schroder can get 15mpg without him on the floor.

Nobody is out here crying that the Thunder didn't snag Josh Okogie or Grayson Allen in the draft, and nobody will be worried in 2022 if they don't take a similar player at that point either

[oreojenkins]

Reggie v. Schroder through first 5 seasons: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Dennis+Schroder&player_id1_select=Dennis+Schroder&y1=2018&player_id1=schrode01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Reggie+Jackson&player_id2_select=Reggie+Jackson&y2=2016&player_id2=jacksre01&idx=players

Was Reggie a "bad fit" with Westbrook? Those numbers are remarkably similar, and there's no doubt in my mind Presti is planning on Schroder having a similar role as Reggie did. They want to run and move the ball. Having someone else out there who can create with Russ and/or PG is nice.

If we start with a baseline of we're stretching Melo, then Schroder only adds $5 million + tax hit per season for 3 years. I think that's a worthwhile investment. If there were better deals out there, that's another issue, but we have no idea what was in play.

Schroder catching a bad rap so far with our fans it seems.

reggie has been horrible the last two seasons. he was much better before that. it's a disingenuous comparison. there was also some other guy on our team back then that may have made such a lineup more tenable.

$5 million + tax hit is nearly $20 million each of the next two seasons. qualifying that with 'only' is also disingenuous.

You're trying to compare what Reggie is now leaving OKC for DET to what Schroder will be leaving ATL for OKC, yet I'm being disingenuous? Maybe situation matters for success? Having Durant obviously would be better than PG in terms of allowing RW and DS to play together, but PG isn't a slouch. Schroder is as good of a player now as Reggie was for us back then, and before he became a malcontent, people loved him here. It's just interesting to me.

You're also using a tax number as if this is the team that will be on the floor in 19-20. You are seemingly operating under the assumption that ownership is unwilling to spend and NEED to penny pinch. They have more flexibility in terms of on court success now than if they just stretched. They aren't thinking "we'll if we save 40 million this year, during our two best players' primes, we can spend it in 2024 if we're ready to contend." Those dollars saved this year couldn't be spent until after this iteration of the team is long gone. And a plan to spend was undoubtedly part of what kept PG here.

[bondom34]

As of this point he is remains a fringe starting caliber PG who is still only 24.
With OKC he gives them the best back-up PG in the league.

Raymond Felton is a mediocre three point shooter, and he and Schroder probably have the same career 3%. Felton has zero explosiveness to catch a Westbrook pass and do something with it off the dribble especially compared to what Schroder could do with it.

So again, tell me how Dennis doesn't fit alongside Russ but Felton did?

Again very clear you've never watched him play. You're telling me we can get 10-15mpg of a Schroder and Noel PnR instead of the trash that's been going on the last three years?

Felton shot six percent better last year and Schroder wasn't playing like a friend starter. He was playing.like a straight backup. He's paid like kanter and they gave up a pick just like for Kanter. This is a strange mirror to that deal.

But again please explain how the spacing looks with those two and Roberson. You didn't answer.

It works the exact same as it did last year with Felton, one of them stands on the wing, Roberson stands in the corner. Schroder had a down year behind the arc, will probably shooting 32-35% again from there this coming season in OKC and 40% on catch and shoot opportunities from there... not to mention again his ability to attack a defender off a close out.

Oh and guess what having an actual quality PG who plays in a similar way does? It allows Russ to not have to play 35+ MPG, Schroder can get 15mpg without him on the floor.

Nobody is out here crying that the Thunder didn't snag Josh Okogie or Grayson Allen in the draft, and nobody will be worried in 2022 if they don't take a similar player at that point either

Actually a lot of people were annoyed they he no pick, and I dont think you've paid attention to the draft if you think those guys aren't worth it. I'd rather Alen on a rookie contract than Schroder, and so would anyone with an idea of contact value.

And Schroder shots a career 32% for three.

[slick_watts]

Nobody is out here crying that the Thunder didn't snag Josh Okogie or Grayson Allen in the draft, and nobody will be worried in 2022 if they don't take a similar player at that point either

good teams don't trade picks like this. rookie scale deals are the best values in the nba aside from superstars on max contracts. presti is messing up, and you are missing the point of why teams shouldn't trade picks indiscriminately.

[oreojenkins]

One of the issues here appears to be some people think this team is going to try to play like the Warriors. I know it's tough to imagine, but there is more than one way to field a winning team. This is an incremental move that gets them closer to a position where they can actually compete at the top.

[slick_watts]

You're trying to compare what Reggie is now leaving OKC for DET to what Schroder will be leaving ATL for OKC, yet I'm being disingenuous?

reggie has struggled with injuries the last two seasons, during which he's missed half his games. he was quite good in 2015-16 for detroit. it wasn't okc making him successful. he's just had two down seasons which is making this comparison disingenuous.

Schroder is as good of a player now as Reggie was for us back then, and before he became a malcontent, people loved him here. It's just interesting to me.

whoa- no way. reggie in 2014-15 and 2015-16 was far better than schroder.

You're also using a tax number as if this is the team that will be on the floor in 19-20. You are seemingly operating under the assumption that ownership is unwilling to spend and NEED to penny pinch. They have more flexibility in terms of on court success now than if they just stretched. They aren't thinking "we'll if we save 40 million this year, during our two best players' primes, we can spend it in 2024 if we're ready to contend." Those dollars saved this year couldn't be spent until after this iteration of the team is long gone. And a plan to spend was undoubtedly part of what kept PG here.

yes, i am operating under the assumption that money is not infinite. obviously the team is committed to spending an outrageous amount of money. it could be excused for george and grant, i guess. but schroder is an unnecessary risk to take on top of the future pick we gave up for him.

just look at the history of teams spending like this, teams with a lot more money than the thunder.

[Pillendreher]

One of the issues here appears to be some people think this team is going to try to play like the Warriors. I know it's tough to imagine, but there is more than one way to field a winning team. This is an incremental move that gets them closer to a position where they can actually compete at the top.

Yes. Not being able to shoot in the modern NBA is gonna get them to the top.

See you there.