2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[Pillendreher]

look at what the sycophants have created. the fans who told westbrook he can 'do what he wants'. 'he's our point guard'. the thunder who gave him the key to the city for signing a maximum contract only the thunder could give him. what impetus was there to ever change?

What a bunch of crap. Like Russell Westbrook was a choir boy until 2016 and then when the fanbase started to rally behind him, he turned into a comic book like villain.

Doesn't it ever bore you regurgitate this stuff constantly? Imagine being this delusional, thinking that fans can influence players like that. But alas, you can't help yourself.

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

The guy literally made it his life's mission to not care about what people think. This is not Kevin Durant.

Regardless of that, you're just using that to mask your real take: Westbrook has doomed us all, yada yada yada. We've all heard it before aplenty.

[slick_watts]

What a bunch of crap. Like Russell Westbrook was a choir boy until 2016 and then when the fanbase started to rally behind him, he turned into a comic book like villain.

Doesn't it ever bore you regurgitate this stuff constantly? Imagine being this delusional, thinking that fans can influence players like that. But alas, you can't help yourself.

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

The guy literally made it his life's mission to not care about what people think. This is not Kevin Durant.

Regardless of that, you're just using that to mask your real take: Westbrook has doomed us all, yada yada yada. We've all heard it before aplenty.

are you watching russ' crumble before your eyes like everyone else? of course he cares what people think.

the point is that he's had no reason to change, and a big reason why is because everyone kept telling him he was perfect and didn't have to. even into january this year there were still some fans, media, etc. making ridiculous claims about better defense and play-making were overcoming his poor shooting and decision making. royce wrote an article about it.

the dude's been in a state surrounded by sycophants since kd left. it has botched his post-athletic prime transition. you may disagree but the results speak for themselves. i'd bet that had westbrook not been treated like king of oklahoma post-kd, we'd see some different results.

[Pillendreher]

are you watching russ' crumble before your eyes like everyone else? of course he cares what people think.

So if he struggles on the court, that means we can change how he plays with our reaction to that?

the point is that he's had no reason to change, and a big reason why is because everyone kept telling him he was perfect and didn't have to. even into january this year there were still some fans, media, etc. making ridiculous claims about better defense and play-making were overcoming his poor shooting and decision making. royce wrote an article about it.

the dude's been in a state surrounded by sycophants since kd left. it has botched his post-athletic prime transition. you may disagree but the results speak for themselves. i'd bet that had westbrook not been treated like king of oklahoma post-kd, we'd see some different results.

There's a vast difference between criticizing him for his play (and rightfully so) and going down this road which paints Westbrook as some warlord like character that has no self-awareness and his surrounded by a bunch by bootlickers that would let him **** in their mouths if he were inclined to do so.

You're never content in critizing him for his fauls and flows. You always go the extra mile to make him look like a gigantic cancer. Just like it was impossible that Donovan was a bad coach; it must have been Westbrook who held him back. Yawn.

[acheema0]

I'm still not 100% sure how to post images on here, so I'll insert a link. This is a comparison of Dennis's stats this year vs. Feltons last year. We have up a first round pick and are now paying 16 million dollars over three years for virtually identical production as what Felton gave us last year on a vet min.
https://imgur.com/a/cTGudq4

[hardenASG13]

Adams isn't the problem, it's Donovans stupid scheme thats the problem. His scheme seems to work with the starters who actually know how to defend, but as soon as the 2nd unit comes on it falls apart. He really should have a separate defensive scheme for the second unit that does not entail the big showing on the P&R, because that second unit cant help rotate to save its life. They're always out of position and constantly being beat, leaving the big on an island.

I agree, the scheme is a big part of the problem there. But, they've had this scheme seemingly forever, dating back to brooks. If they aren't going to change it, wouldn't a more agile shot blocker help. Adams is a wall body to body in the post, but most teams are drastically going away from posting up there 5 men, instead using them in high screen and roll options or to stretch the floor, as more and more of them can drive and shoot, at least to midrange.

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

[Pillendreher]

I'm still not 100% sure how to post images on here, so I'll insert a link. This is a comparison of Dennis's stats this year vs. Feltons last year. We have up a first round pick and are now paying 16 million dollars over three years for virtually identical production as what Felton gave us last year on a vet min.
https://imgur.com/a/cTGudq4

[img]link.to.image[/img]

[hardenASG13]

I agree, the scheme is a big part of the problem there. But, they've had this scheme seemingly forever, dating back to brooks. If they aren't going to change it, wouldn't a more agile shot blocker help. Adams is a wall body to body in the post, but most teams are drastically going away from posting up there 5 men, instead using them in high screen and roll options or to stretch the floor, as more and more of them can drive and shoot, at least to midrange.

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

Edit: just looked. According to
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Adams is in only 1 top 5 defensive lineup ( min 200 minutes), and yes Westbrook is in it. They are
Also in #19, along with grant, George and Schroeder (the lineup you and others say can't defend) Are the stats you routinely reference even credible?

[acheema0]

I'm still not 100% sure how to post images on here, so I'll insert a link. This is a comparison of Dennis's stats this year vs. Feltons last year. We have up a first round pick and are now paying 16 million dollars over three years for virtually identical production as what Felton gave us last year on a vet min.
https://imgur.com/a/cTGudq4

[img]link.to.image[/img]

Thank you.

[Pillendreher]

I agree, the scheme is a big part of the problem there. But, they've had this scheme seemingly forever, dating back to brooks. If they aren't going to change it, wouldn't a more agile shot blocker help. Adams is a wall body to body in the post, but most teams are drastically going away from posting up there 5 men, instead using them in high screen and roll options or to stretch the floor, as more and more of them can drive and shoot, at least to midrange.

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

Per pbpstats.com, league average DRtG over the last two seasons has been 109.7. Westbrook-Roberson-George-Adams last season and Westbrook-Ferguson-George-Adams have allowed a combined 100.2 points per 100 possessions. Relative to league average, that's 9.5 points better. So yes, Westbrook was a part of those significantly better defensive lineups.

[Pillendreher]

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

Edit: just looked. According to
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Adams is in only 1 top 5 defensive lineup ( min 200 minutes), and yes Westbrook is in it. They are
Also in #19, along with grant, George and Schroeder (the lineup you and others say can't defend) Are the stats you routinely reference even credible?

17/18: http://bkref.com/tiny/D89mc
18/19: http://bkref.com/tiny/V2Etc

[hardenASG13]

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

Per pbpstats.com, league average DRtG over the last two seasons has been 109.7. Westbrook-Roberson-George-Adams last season and Westbrook-Ferguson-George-Adams have allowed a combined 100.2 points per 100 possessions. Relative to league average, that's 9.5 points better. So yes, Westbrook was a part of those significantly better defensive lineups.

I want to see him say it. Also, unless the link I posted is incorrect, he is flat out lying on adams being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups, and the Schroeder starters are top 20 in Drtg as well. Can you credit adams for being in top defensive lineups, but simply ignore that Westbrook is in them?

Also, the Schroeder starters also have a positive net rating......maybe that's why the team has such a good record?

[slick_watts]

There's a vast difference between criticizing him for his play (and rightfully so) and going down this road which paints Westbrook as some warlord like character that has no self-awareness and his surrounded by a bunch by bootlickers that would let him **** in their mouths if he were inclined to do so.

except that's what is happening. look at those two three pointers he attempted. westbrook is 30 years old, and 10 years in the nba. does any other star of his caliber demonstrate such a lack of self-awareness? is stephen curry going to back down his man and attempt a jump hook in that situation? is james harden going to seek out the opponent's best player and wave off trevor ariza or LRMAM on defense in that situation? westbrook either doesn't know or doesn't care about the reality of his skillset.

with that in mind, recall the times in 2016-17 when westbrook hit a game winning pull-up three. the sycophants tuning out the realists who tried to tell them that it was a bad shot and this praise reinforces bad habits. even when he'd miss, the sycophants were on blogs, in the media, in the locker room withholding criticism.

[slick_watts]

double post.

[slick_watts]

Is Westbrook also part of those?

only one.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Adams is in only 1 top 5 defensive lineup ( min 200 minutes), and yes Westbrook is in it. They are
Also in #19, along with grant, George and Schroeder (the lineup you and others say can't defend) Are the stats you routinely reference even credible?

sigh



they were both top 5 at the time i posted.

I want to see him say it.

this is amusing. i'm laughing out loud.

so westbrook is in a top 5 defensive lineup? do you think that means he's a capable defensive player? does andre roberson being a part of top offensive lineups make him a capable offensive player?

Also, unless the link I posted is incorrect, he is flat out lying on adams being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups

you should have just asked for the source. i would have posted it. why would i lie?

Can you credit adams for being in top defensive lineups, but simply ignore that Westbrook is in them?

what do you mean by 'ignore'? are you suggesting that westbrook is good defensively? are you suggesting adams is bad? what are you even suggesting here?

Also, the Schroeder starters also have a positive net rating......maybe that's why the team has such a good record?

schroder + starters is far worse than ferguson + starters. schroder is enes kanter in guard form. he is dion kanter.

[hardenASG13]

Is Westbrook also part of those?

only one.

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*200&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Adams is in only 1 top 5 defensive lineup ( min 200 minutes), and yes Westbrook is in it. They are
Also in #19, along with grant, George and Schroeder (the lineup you and others say can't defend) Are the stats you routinely reference even credible?

sigh



they were both top 5 at the time i posted.

I want to see him say it.

this is amusing. i'm laughing out loud.

so westbrook is in a top 5 defensive lineup? do you think that means he's a capable defensive player? does andre roberson being a part of top offensive lineups make him a capable offensive player?

Also, unless the link I posted is incorrect, he is flat out lying on adams being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups

you should have just asked for the source. i would have posted it. why would i lie?

Can you credit adams for being in top defensive lineups, but simply ignore that Westbrook is in them?

what do you mean by 'ignore'? are you suggesting that westbrook is good defensively? are you suggesting adams is bad? what are you even suggesting here?

Also, the Schroeder starters also have a positive net rating......maybe that's why the team has such a good record?

schroder + starters is far worse than ferguson + starters. schroder is enes kanter in guard form. he is dion kanter.

In the link I posted he's part of both. Only 1 is top 5, the other is #19. I do think it means Westbrook is a capable defensive player. Again, why is adams credited in being in these lineups (by you, directly, a few posts ago) but Westbrook isn't.

Schroeder plus starters is worse , but still a positive and one of the top 20 in the entire league , I believe. Far from the travesty you and others have depicted on here for months with 3 man lineup data, 5 game samples, etc. to distort the stats to say what you want. Repeat, Schroeder and the starters has a top 20 net rating. They aren't bad, at all.

[slick_watts]

In the link I posted he's part of both.

the link you posted had a 200 minute minimum. i used 100 minutes. again, you could have asked before making yourself look foolish!

Again, why is adams credited in being in these lineups (by you, directly, a few posts ago) but Westbrook isn't.

westbrook didn't fit the criteria of being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the nba like adams did at the time i made that post.

Schroeder plus starters is worse , but still a positive and one of the top 20 in the entire league , I believe.

excuse me? are we talking about the same thing here?

westbrook-ferguson-george-grant-adams is +14.3pp100
westbrook-schroder-george-grant-adams is +4.7pp100

that is a colossal difference, and it's not in the top 20 lol.

are you talking about schroder-ferguson-george-grant-adams? because that's not what anyone else is talking about when making this comparison. that unit has a crazy net rating because they are +40pp100 in three games versus cavs and suns.

[hardenASG13]

In the link I posted he's part of both.

the link you posted had a 200 minute minimum. i used 100 minutes. again, you could have asked before making yourself look foolish!

Again, why is adams credited in being in these lineups (by you, directly, a few posts ago) but Westbrook isn't.

westbrook didn't fit the criteria of being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the nba like adams did at the time i made that post.

Schroeder plus starters is worse , but still a positive and one of the top 20 in the entire league , I believe.

excuse me? are we talking about the same thing here?

westbrook-ferguson-george-grant-adams is +14.3pp100
westbrook-schroder-george-grant-adams is +4.7pp100

that is a colossal difference, and it's not in the top 20 lol.

are you talking about schroder-ferguson-george-grant-adams? because that's not what anyone else is talking about when making this comparison. that unit has a crazy net rating because they are +40pp100 in three games versus cavs and suns.

[hardenASG13]

In the link I posted he's part of both.

the link you posted had a 200 minute minimum. i used 100 minutes. again, you could have asked before making yourself look foolish!

Again, why is adams credited in being in these lineups (by you, directly, a few posts ago) but Westbrook isn't.

westbrook didn't fit the criteria of being in 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the nba like adams did at the time i made that post.

Schroeder plus starters is worse , but still a positive and one of the top 20 in the entire league , I believe.

excuse me? are we talking about the same thing here?

westbrook-ferguson-george-grant-adams is +14.3pp100
westbrook-schroder-george-grant-adams is +4.7pp100

that is a colossal difference, and it's not in the top 20 lol.

are you talking about schroder-ferguson-george-grant-adams? because that's not what anyone else is talking about when making this comparison. that unit has a crazy net rating because they are +40pp100 in three games versus cavs and suns.

Oh, would've figured you would've chose something more significant than a 100 minute sample. Maybe you shouldve prefaced your claim that adams was in 2 top 5 defensive lineups with a 100 minute minimum? But, that would have shown the really small sample size you are cherry picking from....

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall. Kind of kills the whole lineup cancer, dion kanter, shroeder plus starters is the problem (this team is 3rd in the West, folks!) narrative you and others have been pushing. There are only 14 better lineups! One of which is OKCs actual starters.....

[slick_watts]

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall.

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

[SecondTake]

I agree, the scheme is a big part of the problem there. But, they've had this scheme seemingly forever, dating back to brooks. If they aren't going to change it, wouldn't a more agile shot blocker help. Adams is a wall body to body in the post, but most teams are drastically going away from posting up there 5 men, instead using them in high screen and roll options or to stretch the floor, as more and more of them can drive and shoot, at least to midrange.

adams is one of the best in the league defending both the pick and roll and on the perimeter. you are wildly off base here. those are like, his best strengths. you realize that adam is part of not one but 2 of the top 5 defensive lineups in the entire nba, right?

Is Westbrook also part of those?

Pretty sure he is.