2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3161 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:54 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:So this is the subject of the Heat postgame, but I think a rebuild is only somewhat realistic if you one of the following happens (I’m assuming Russ and PG is here to stay).

1. Is ownership willing to pay a diminished tax bill even if it’s repeater for the next few seasons. If so you can take back less than ideal longer term salary for what you can get for Adams and Schroder while acquiring assets.

2. Pay the cash and whatever junk seconds to move 2Pat this summer after he picks up his option. This takes another decent chunk out of tax bill.

I think there is a certain wing in Minnesota that OKC could acquire for Adams while also acquiring pick 14 in this draft and Okogie. I don’t like Wiggins but this could be a start to a rebuild.

Adams, Schroder, and 2Pat

For

Wiggins, Dieng, Okogie, and Minnesota 2019 1st

Don’t kill me for this one


Minny has towns at center


Towns is pretty good at the four.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3162 » by hardenASG13 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:56 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote:
All im seeing is ypur boi burton go -13 in 6 minutes while adding nothing


:lol: he played 6 minutes. He's a role player. Nice stat/sample combo. I'm sure the -13 was entirely on him. I see adams managed to attempt 6 fgs! Way to step it up and be aggressive stevie!! That's why he gets the big bucks!


Yea he played 6 minutes cuz hes a bum. But yea should totally start at the 2. Even tho hes short and overweight for his position. Who cares about defense.

Yea and Adams only missed 1 shot. Billy should have got him more shots


Never said he should be starting, he should be in the rotation tho, getting extended minutes when he is having a good night or Ferguson or nader aren't. Why not use a talented guy while blindly handing those 2 minutes?

Enough saying Donovan should have got him more shots. Westbrook was out! He's paid 25 mil a year, get more aggressive and demand the ball on the block. He doesn't post like he wants the ball. Great percentage 5/6 , they need him to be way more assertive in generating attempts tho, not just take the few high percentage shots hes comfortable with. That's on him, not the coach. He struggles to create his own looks, or looks for others which is a problem for his price tag. Big letdown from him last night.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3163 » by Dadouv47 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:25 pm

I feel something is also mentally broken with this team. I said several times that this year our team had the best off court chemistry in Thunder's history and It really was the case until January. It was really GREAT to see those guys helping/encouraging each other, smiling and kidding together (even after somes bad loses). I don't know what is wrong since then, can't explain :(
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3164 » by RalphSampsonJr » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:27 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
:lol: he played 6 minutes. He's a role player. Nice stat/sample combo. I'm sure the -13 was entirely on him. I see adams managed to attempt 6 fgs! Way to step it up and be aggressive stevie!! That's why he gets the big bucks!


Yea he played 6 minutes cuz hes a bum. But yea should totally start at the 2. Even tho hes short and overweight for his position. Who cares about defense.

Yea and Adams only missed 1 shot. Billy should have got him more shots


Never said he should be starting, he should be in the rotation tho, getting extended minutes when he is having a good night or Ferguson or nader aren't. Why not use a talented guy while blindly handing those 2 minutes?

Enough saying Donovan should have got him more shots. Westbrook was out! He's paid 25 mil a year, get more aggressive and demand the ball on the block. He doesn't post like he wants the ball. Great percentage 5/6 , they need him to be way more assertive in generating attempts tho, not just take the few high percentage shots hes comfortable with. That's on him, not the coach. He struggles to create his own looks, or looks for others which is a problem for his price tag. Big letdown from him last night.


The dude was in the g league most of the season and wasnt even putting up stand out numbers. 17 points on 13 shots a game.. he is not rotation quality. He should be 4th in line behind ferg nader and hami.

How is it on Adams? How do you know hes not asking for the ball? Thats an assumption. Dude is still putting up the same fg% as early in the season when he was getting 10+ shots a game.

Hes not getting as many looks because teams have learnt that okc is a terrible shooting team and can sag off 4 out of the 5 starters. Therefore packing the paint. Billy isnt smart enough to set up plays for him other than basic pick and roll.

He can easily get a post up. Someone screens his man while he slips under the basket then gets the pass before his man recovers. One things he sucks at is passing out of the double team when help comes. Other than that everything else is on Billy. He calls the plays Adams just does what he gets told. Probably to a fault
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3165 » by JustOneFix » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:27 pm

With bench unit this offensively inept, i don't get it why Billy doesn't experiment a bit with a lineup. Many teams are doing that. Heat won last night with Dragic and Wade off the bench, Clippers are having 2 of their best players in Williams and Herrel coming of the bench too. Spurs were doing that for years and so on and on.

I'd move both Grant and Ferguson to the bench and play Westbrook, Burton, George, Morris and Adams. And then have Schroeder, Ferguson and Grant having their ways against the opposing teams second units. This is the only way to squeez out some kind of a offensive production from the second unit.

It's just a thought as things really can't get any worse...
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3166 » by wco81 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:00 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:I feel something is also mentally broken with this team. I said several times that this year our team had the best off court chemistry in Thunder's history and It really was the case until January. It was really GREAT to see those guys helping/encouraging each other, smiling and kidding together (even after somes bad loses). I don't know what is wrong since then, can't explain :(



Wasn't PG13 shooting at well above his career averages?

He's come down since, probably due to injury. Going to need him to regain that form.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3167 » by Dadouv47 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:07 pm

wco81 wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:I feel something is also mentally broken with this team. I said several times that this year our team had the best off court chemistry in Thunder's history and It really was the case until January. It was really GREAT to see those guys helping/encouraging each other, smiling and kidding together (even after somes bad loses). I don't know what is wrong since then, can't explain :(



Wasn't PG13 shooting at well above his career averages?

He's come down since, probably due to injury. Going to need him to regain that form.


Yup but he wasn't scoring so well in the first month of the season (need to check stats to confirm) but the team was still ''ok'. He entered his MVPG mode late November/early December
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3168 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:40 pm

wco81 wrote:Wasn't PG13 shooting at well above his career averages?

He's come down since, probably due to injury. Going to need him to regain that form.


PG was playing the best of his career. December was the best single month of his career and Dec-Feb was the best 3 month stretch. He had played at that level, or very close, randomly a few months here and thee through his career. It seemed very unlikely that he could maintain it for a season this time, but with every week he kept it up we all wanted to believe it more since it was the only hope OKC had of getting out of the first round. If he can return to that form it would be great, but it was always unlikely he could maintain it all season and with a shoulder injury I'm not even considering it as realistic. Their 50/50 chance against some first round opponents is slipping fast with every loss as they lose homecourt and put themselves in position for a superior team. It seems like the fantasy that they could get Portland in the first round is quickly fading and that was who they needed. I find it hard to see them beating anyone else that they could realistically play.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3169 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Dn4sty wrote:So this is the subject of the Heat postgame, but I think a rebuild is only somewhat realistic if you one of the following happens (I’m assuming Russ and PG is here to stay).

1. Is ownership willing to pay a diminished tax bill even if it’s repeater for the next few seasons. If so you can take back less than ideal longer term salary for what you can get for Adams and Schroder while acquiring assets.

2. Pay the cash and whatever junk seconds to move 2Pat this summer after he picks up his option. This takes another decent chunk out of tax bill.

I think there is a certain wing in Minnesota that OKC could acquire for Adams while also acquiring pick 14 in this draft and Okogie. I don’t like Wiggins but this could be a start to a rebuild.

Adams, Schroder, and 2Pat

For

Wiggins, Dieng, Okogie, and Minnesota 2019 1st

Don’t kill me for this one


Wiggins? :lol:

That's not a rebuild, that's called an indefinite tank. Can't win with Wiggins.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3170 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:16 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote:
All im seeing is ypur boi burton go -13 in 6 minutes while adding nothing


:lol: he played 6 minutes. He's a role player. Nice stat/sample combo. I'm sure the -13 was entirely on him. I see adams managed to attempt 6 fgs! Way to step it up and be aggressive stevie!! That's why he gets the big bucks!


Yea he played 6 minutes cuz hes a bum. But yea should totally start at the 2. Even tho hes short and overweight for his position. Who cares about defense.

Yea and Adams only missed 1 shot. Billy should have got him more shots


Burton was locking guys down. Unfortunately the guys around him couldn't do the same. Can't blame Burton for that.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3171 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:19 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote:
Yea he played 6 minutes cuz hes a bum. But yea should totally start at the 2. Even tho hes short and overweight for his position. Who cares about defense.

Yea and Adams only missed 1 shot. Billy should have got him more shots


Never said he should be starting, he should be in the rotation tho, getting extended minutes when he is having a good night or Ferguson or nader aren't. Why not use a talented guy while blindly handing those 2 minutes?

Enough saying Donovan should have got him more shots. Westbrook was out! He's paid 25 mil a year, get more aggressive and demand the ball on the block. He doesn't post like he wants the ball. Great percentage 5/6 , they need him to be way more assertive in generating attempts tho, not just take the few high percentage shots hes comfortable with. That's on him, not the coach. He struggles to create his own looks, or looks for others which is a problem for his price tag. Big letdown from him last night.


The dude was in the g league most of the season and wasnt even putting up stand out numbers. 17 points on 13 shots a game.. he is not rotation quality. He should be 4th in line behind ferg nader and hami.

How is it on Adams? How do you know hes not asking for the ball? Thats an assumption. Dude is still putting up the same fg% as early in the season when he was getting 10+ shots a game.

Hes not getting as many looks because teams have learnt that okc is a terrible shooting team and can sag off 4 out of the 5 starters. Therefore packing the paint. Billy isnt smart enough to set up plays for him other than basic pick and roll.

He can easily get a post up. Someone screens his man while he slips under the basket then gets the pass before his man recovers. One things he sucks at is passing out of the double team when help comes. Other than that everything else is on Billy. He calls the plays Adams just does what he gets told. Probably to a fault


There's two sides to the game. Burton is a decent offensive player and a great defender. Nader is a passable offensive player and a traffic cone on defense. Hami...Hami isn't good at anything so far except dunking.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3172 » by Dn4sty » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:48 pm

SecondTake wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:So this is the subject of the Heat postgame, but I think a rebuild is only somewhat realistic if you one of the following happens (I’m assuming Russ and PG is here to stay).

1. Is ownership willing to pay a diminished tax bill even if it’s repeater for the next few seasons. If so you can take back less than ideal longer term salary for what you can get for Adams and Schroder while acquiring assets.

2. Pay the cash and whatever junk seconds to move 2Pat this summer after he picks up his option. This takes another decent chunk out of tax bill.

I think there is a certain wing in Minnesota that OKC could acquire for Adams while also acquiring pick 14 in this draft and Okogie. I don’t like Wiggins but this could be a start to a rebuild.

Adams, Schroder, and 2Pat

For

Wiggins, Dieng, Okogie, and Minnesota 2019 1st

Don’t kill me for this one


Wiggins? :lol:

That's not a rebuild, that's called an indefinite tank. Can't win with Wiggins.


You pick up a rookie who’s played well in Okogie and get what is likely going to be the 14th pick in the draft.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3173 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:12 pm

Dn4sty wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:So this is the subject of the Heat postgame, but I think a rebuild is only somewhat realistic if you one of the following happens (I’m assuming Russ and PG is here to stay).

1. Is ownership willing to pay a diminished tax bill even if it’s repeater for the next few seasons. If so you can take back less than ideal longer term salary for what you can get for Adams and Schroder while acquiring assets.

2. Pay the cash and whatever junk seconds to move 2Pat this summer after he picks up his option. This takes another decent chunk out of tax bill.

I think there is a certain wing in Minnesota that OKC could acquire for Adams while also acquiring pick 14 in this draft and Okogie. I don’t like Wiggins but this could be a start to a rebuild.

Adams, Schroder, and 2Pat

For

Wiggins, Dieng, Okogie, and Minnesota 2019 1st

Don’t kill me for this one


Wiggins? :lol:

That's not a rebuild, that's called an indefinite tank. Can't win with Wiggins.


You pick up a rookie who’s played well in Okogie and get what is likely going to be the 14th pick in the draft.


Wiggins is going to kill chemistry so hard that you could pick up Zion and still not make it to the playoffs. He has a case for being the dumbest player in the NBA, and combined with a lack of effort and poor locker room presence I don't think you could bring a worse player than him. Plus can you imagine the volume of inefficient chucking with both Wiggins and Russ on one team, and possibly with the Schroder or another chucker off the bench?
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3174 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:29 pm

Dn4sty wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:So this is the subject of the Heat postgame, but I think a rebuild is only somewhat realistic if you one of the following happens (I’m assuming Russ and PG is here to stay).

1. Is ownership willing to pay a diminished tax bill even if it’s repeater for the next few seasons. If so you can take back less than ideal longer term salary for what you can get for Adams and Schroder while acquiring assets.

2. Pay the cash and whatever junk seconds to move 2Pat this summer after he picks up his option. This takes another decent chunk out of tax bill.

I think there is a certain wing in Minnesota that OKC could acquire for Adams while also acquiring pick 14 in this draft and Okogie. I don’t like Wiggins but this could be a start to a rebuild.

Adams, Schroder, and 2Pat

For

Wiggins, Dieng, Okogie, and Minnesota 2019 1st

Don’t kill me for this one


Wiggins? :lol:

That's not a rebuild, that's called an indefinite tank. Can't win with Wiggins.


You pick up a rookie who’s played well in Okogie and get what is likely going to be the 14th pick in the draft.


If we actually did a full rebuild then I don’t hate the idea. If we are going to keep Russ and Presti uses Wiggins like Kanter by continuing to chase bad contracts then I’m out. If you trade for young guys then they have to play and not get buried behind isoball players.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3175 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:34 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
Wiggins? :lol:

That's not a rebuild, that's called an indefinite tank. Can't win with Wiggins.


You pick up a rookie who’s played well in Okogie and get what is likely going to be the 14th pick in the draft.


If we actually did a full rebuild then I don’t hate the idea. If we are going to keep Russ and Presti uses Wiggins like Kanter by continuing to chase bad contracts then I’m out. If you trade for young guys then they have to play and not get buried behind isoball players.


Team field goal percentage 32.6% incoming.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3176 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:06 pm

SecondTake wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
You pick up a rookie who’s played well in Okogie and get what is likely going to be the 14th pick in the draft.


If we actually did a full rebuild then I don’t hate the idea. If we are going to keep Russ and Presti uses Wiggins like Kanter by continuing to chase bad contracts then I’m out. If you trade for young guys then they have to play and not get buried behind isoball players.


Team field goal percentage 32.6% incoming.

Good. We need a couple of top five picks.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3177 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:11 am

spearsy23 wrote:ThIs TeAm CaN BeAt AnYoNe


You agreed with that about a week ago. It's been a rough 2 games, 1 without Westbrook who they are nothing without. Who don't they have a 50/50 chance against out west outside of golden state? You could argue houston, but they aren't unbeatable like past years for okc. Denver's main guys have never played a playoff game outside of milsap. Everyone else has similar flaws
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3178 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:40 am

hardenASG13 wrote:It's been a rough 2 games


On February 13, we were one game behind the Nuggets and had a seven game lead on the 8th spot. Five weeks later, we're six games behind the Nuggets and are half a game up on the 8th spot.

This nonchalant way about never meeting expectations is what lets both Presti and Donovan keep their jobs. This team is spending a total of roundabout 200 **** million dollars and all we get is half a season's worth of excellent defense and a couple of weeks of 3pt shot making. :banghead:
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3179 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:28 am

The one thing that has been an absolute constant throughout the Donovan era is the lack of mental fortitude of this team. They have shown resiliance this season, fighting, not backing down to deficits, but at the same time this is a trouling sign: Good teams avoid playing from behind. This whole mess was apparent in the Miami game: They lead by 13 or so after the first 7 minutes and suddenly the whole thing goes off the rails and the Heat go on a 37-8 run (!) over the next 8 minutes or so. And everybody just lets it happen. What worked well for them to start the game (moving, passing the ball, getting into good positions to take shots) is suddenly completely disregarded and nobody adjusts. Donovan took a timeout while up 17-8 with 4:32 to go in the 1st quarter and then didn't take a single timeout for the rest of the first half (!) while his team got destroyed. The team just let it happen and so did the coaching staff. That is simply unacceptable. This team is not going anywhere until it sheds this mental stain. There have been way too many games in which they looked totally unprepared on both sides of the floor and looked they were "just playing", ie not playing with a purpose, but like they were just playing pick up with some friends. That simply can't happen. This is a billion dollar company. And year after year we get horrible returns on our investments. Imagine if Apple or Microsoft or Audi worked like that.

Russell Westbrook may commit a brainfart from time to time, but at some point it's unreasonable to assume that every player on this team is an idiot that's too stupid to play well.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3180 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:35 am

Pillendreher wrote:The one thing that has been an absolute constant throughout the Donovan era is the lack of mental fortitude of this team. They have shown resiliance this season, fighting, not backing down to deficits, but at the same time this is a trouling sign: Good teams avoid playing from behind. This whole mess was apparent in the Miami game: They lead by 13 or so after the first 7 minutes and suddenly the whole thing goes off the rails and the Heat go on a 37-8 run (!) over the next 8 minutes or so. And everybody just lets it happen. What worked well for them to start the game (moving, passing the ball, getting into good positions to take shots) is suddenly completely disregarded and nobody adjusts. Donovan took a timeout while up 17-8 with 4:32 to go in the 1st quarter and then didn't take a single timeout for the rest of the first half (!) while his team got destroyed. The team just let it happen and so did the coaching staff. That is simply unacceptable. This team is not going anywhere until it sheds this mental stain. There have been way too many games in which they looked totally unprepared on both sides of the floor and looked they were "just playing", ie not playing with a purpose, but like they were just playing pick up with some friends. That simply can't happen. This is a billion dollar company. And year after year we get horrible returns on our investments. Imagine if Apple or Microsoft or Audi worked like that.

Russell Westbrook may commit a brainfart from time to time, but at some point it's unreasonable to assume that every player on this team is an idiot that's too stupid to play well.


No doubt, they are and have been one of the worst run teams in the league since I can remember from a coaching and management perspective. There was the Perkins era, playing defensive specialists at the 2 (which was phased out in about 2010......they started thabo over harden who was clearly an all star at the time), routinely having an awful bench, ignoring obvious problems in the rotation, and playing iso ball every season. They have just always had stars to mask it. Once Westbrook stops performing,it'll be ugly. The only prospects with potential to improve they have are grant and maybe ferguson.

I think it's what makes me so optimistic about them though. I know they can play better than they do, largely because of their coaching holding them back. They show glimpses of it all the time, and their stars truly have done some amazing things over the years considering all the flaws in coaching and management. I think the organization is a joke honestly, I've just liked their players, and root for them to succeed in spite of their management and coaching. Westbrook is the last remaining piece. Once he no longer is great, I'm done with them. Thinking I'll be a kings fan, maybe as soon as next year.

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