Around the NBA: 2018—19

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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#501 » by CROklahoma » Sat May 18, 2019 2:33 pm

They get out of nowhere ?
They got a guy who coached Hawks to ECF and made 4 allstars that season. Guy is a magician.
That just shows you how important coaching is in this league.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#502 » by Pillendreher » Sat May 18, 2019 2:40 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:The Bucks depress me. They come out of nowhere and perform at a very high level all season long on both sides of the floor without even going through drastic changes roster wise compared to last season (I'm talking about like Toronto trading Derozan for Leonard; the Bucks mainly improved their depth without getting any serious difference makers). Meanwhile we just continue to fail in an embarassing fashion postseason after postseason. Our GM talks about keeping "the grind" going, our coach just gives 12 hour long answers without actually saying anything, our PG tells people he don't give a **** about criticism, acting like his shooting struggles are just bringing out the haters, and our SF will miss the whole offseason while calling guys like Grant "Swiss Army Knives"...

I fee l like JD in season 6 of Scrubs:

As I looked at all the relationships around me - some that had gone on forever…some that were reigniting…and some that had just begun…I realized something. It should have been me.


Image


The bucks didn’t make significant moves but they made the right moves. They didn’t keep Jabari Enes Parker. I think they got a little lucky with Lopez being a sniper from three. They didn’t use a draft pick to dump ilyasova. They’ve drafted decent and haven’t squandered assets on Dion Waiters type players.


Which makes it even more frustrating. Winning a title is not easy, but it's not getting any easier if you keep making the same mistakes over and over again. The Bucks spent a FRP and a SRP on Hill and Mirotic, good roleplayers. We are going to attach yet another FRP to Schröder to get rid of him (if that's even enough) just because Presti **** up the Jackson trade and then was too foolish to match Portland's horrible offer sheet.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#503 » by slick_watts » Sat May 18, 2019 8:56 pm

the bucks have also avoided major injury. giannis is probably as good or even better than kd ever was and certainly better than any version of russell westbrook. the thunder were on this trajectory early on, and their peak year (2013) could have been a title year if not for westbrook's injury v. houston. we'll see how the bucks deal with their cap situation moving forward but it's not like the thunder weren't at their position before. grabbing mirotic and hill using draft assets are the correct moves. that was the problem with the thunder back in the day, sam was ostensibly looking to the future and never really swung for those fences. he took durant and the talent we had for granted.

if you're comparing the bucks to post-kd playoff failings then lol.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#504 » by Pillendreher » Sat May 18, 2019 9:17 pm

slick_watts wrote:if you're comparing the bucks to post-kd playoff failings then lol.


General consensus before the season was that both teams would be at roughly the same level this season. 538 had us at +4.6 and 53 wins and the Bucks at +2.1 and 47 wins. Pelton had us at 47.2 wins and the Bucks at 45.2.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#505 » by slick_watts » Sat May 18, 2019 9:30 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
slick_watts wrote:if you're comparing the bucks to post-kd playoff failings then lol.


General consensus before the season was that both teams would be at roughly the same level this season. 538 had us at +4.6 and 53 wins and the Bucks at +2.1 and 47 wins. Pelton had us at 47.2 wins and the Bucks at 45.2.


giannis outperformed 538 player projections by a mile, by +1.6. so did contract year eric bledsoe. and of course brook lopez was far better than anyone would have projected.

westbrook on his own was projected +7.3 in preseason but finished +5.1, a -2.2 drop-off. bigger than giannis' leap. this is the main difference between these teams imo. if westbrook was still +7.0 or better as 538 predicted they'd probably have been a 5-6 srs team and not far behind the bucks. and probably close to equal if giannis performed as projected aswell.

preseason thunder projections also included andre roberson.

presti's bungling left the cupboard bare relative to the bucks so we couldn't make the same moves.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#506 » by Pillendreher » Sat May 18, 2019 9:33 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
slick_watts wrote:if you're comparing the bucks to post-kd playoff failings then lol.


General consensus before the season was that both teams would be at roughly the same level this season. 538 had us at +4.6 and 53 wins and the Bucks at +2.1 and 47 wins. Pelton had us at 47.2 wins and the Bucks at 45.2.


giannis outperformed 538 player projections by a mile, by +1.6. so did contract year eric bledsoe. and of course brook lopez was far better than anyone would have projected.

westbrook on his own was projected +7.3 in preseason but finished +5.1, a -2.2 drop-off. bigger than giannis' leap. this is the main difference between these teams imo. if westbrook was still +7.0 or better as 538 predicted they'd probably have been a 5-6 srs team and not far behind the bucks. and probably close to equal if giannis performed as projected aswell.

preseason thunder projections also included andre roberson.

presti's bungling left the cupboard bare relative to the bucks so we couldn't make the same moves.


So we are in agreement? Bucks vastly outperformed expectations while we did the opposite in a less extreme way?

Also it's really frustrating to see that the Bucks aquire both Hill and Mirotic within the same season while Taj Gibson is the only trade Presti has ever made that brought in a proven roleplayer to help the team midseason. :banghead:
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#507 » by slick_watts » Sat May 18, 2019 11:25 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
General consensus before the season was that both teams would be at roughly the same level this season. 538 had us at +4.6 and 53 wins and the Bucks at +2.1 and 47 wins. Pelton had us at 47.2 wins and the Bucks at 45.2.


giannis outperformed 538 player projections by a mile, by +1.6. so did contract year eric bledsoe. and of course brook lopez was far better than anyone would have projected.

westbrook on his own was projected +7.3 in preseason but finished +5.1, a -2.2 drop-off. bigger than giannis' leap. this is the main difference between these teams imo. if westbrook was still +7.0 or better as 538 predicted they'd probably have been a 5-6 srs team and not far behind the bucks. and probably close to equal if giannis performed as projected aswell.

preseason thunder projections also included andre roberson.

presti's bungling left the cupboard bare relative to the bucks so we couldn't make the same moves.


So we are in agreement? Bucks vastly outperformed expectations while we did the opposite in a less extreme way?

Also it's really frustrating to see that the Bucks aquire both Hill and Mirotic within the same season while Taj Gibson is the only trade Presti has ever made that brought in a proven roleplayer to help the team midseason. :banghead:


i think we mostly are in agreement, just probably at odds with what the thunder could have done differently the last couple seasons to avoid the outcome once they established this trajectory. westbrook decline this year? can't really do much about that. abrines and roberson? meh. maybe. could a better system and coach get enough out of this group despite all that to match the bucks? unlikely. the schroder trade is just classic presti, melo had to go and he's not going to stretch that salary. stretching would have been better.

giannis leap seems mostly like westbrook decline, an inevitable (from the starting point of this year) thing that these projection systems simply failed to fully account for. they also did not account for paul george's leap, which relative to preseason projections is almost as impressive as giannis.

we're in 100% agreement on the bucks strategy relative to the kd/rw thunder. not only the bucks, but the sixers and raptors also. success is fleeting, and those teams making short term moves to try to best take advantage of what they have now was the correct course of action. one of them is going to be in the finals and have a decent chance a puncher's chance of winning, after all. the thunder failing to make trades for productive veterans using their assets during its heyday is inexcusable.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#508 » by Osirus89 » Sun May 19, 2019 3:52 am

Draymond has been a lunatic this playoffs. It takes Durant going down to wake guys up and bring performances like this out of them.
If Durant isn’t back in the finals, Milwaukee can take it but they still have a good chance.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#509 » by CROklahoma » Sun May 19, 2019 12:24 pm

Id say GSW is still a 70-30% favourite in the finals.
These guys are unbeatable without Durant, literally, they're just better as a team.

Advantage over milwaukee, they've been in finals for so many years, experience, quality, ball movement ...
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#510 » by Thunder Up » Sun May 19, 2019 1:20 pm

and once again, Dame continues to be the trash shooter he has always been in the playoffs after playing OKC
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#511 » by Old Man Game » Sun May 19, 2019 1:28 pm

So the Warriors are likely going to win by a sweep in the conference finals, WITHOUT Durant.

If they win the title this year and do so without significant contribution from Durant in the 2 last rounds, AND Durant re-signs there anyway, he's a freakin' cuck, doormat of a person.

Another thing, we all focus on what we lost when he left for Golden State around here, but watching them without him I'm reminded of what the basketball world generally lost. This version of the Warriors is so much more entertaining. There's actual drama. There's some chance they'll lose and when they play great and win anyway its so much more fun than watching them with Durant out there just steamroll everyone.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#512 » by slick_watts » Sun May 19, 2019 5:43 pm

Old Man Game wrote:So the Warriors are likely going to win by a sweep in the conference finals, WITHOUT Durant.

If they win the title this year and do so without significant contribution from Durant in the 2 last rounds, AND Durant re-signs there anyway, he's a freakin' cuck, doormat of a person.

Another thing, we all focus on what we lost when he left for Golden State around here, but watching them without him I'm reminded of what the basketball world generally lost. This version of the Warriors is so much more entertaining. There's actual drama. There's some chance they'll lose and when they play great and win anyway its so much more fun than watching them with Durant out there just steamroll everyone.


even with durant i'm not sure milwaukee would be a pushover for the warriors if they get there.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#513 » by Old Man Game » Sun May 19, 2019 9:07 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:So the Warriors are likely going to win by a sweep in the conference finals, WITHOUT Durant.

If they win the title this year and do so without significant contribution from Durant in the 2 last rounds, AND Durant re-signs there anyway, he's a freakin' cuck, doormat of a person.

Another thing, we all focus on what we lost when he left for Golden State around here, but watching them without him I'm reminded of what the basketball world generally lost. This version of the Warriors is so much more entertaining. There's actual drama. There's some chance they'll lose and when they play great and win anyway its so much more fun than watching them with Durant out there just steamroll everyone.


even with durant i'm not sure milwaukee would be a pushover for the warriors if they get there.


Yeah. Lot can happen. I'm just saying. He may literally not even be necessary for them. If he re-ups in that scenario I've outlined above he's a tag along chump that'll never be respected by any of his peers in that elite tier of players historically. One could argue he must not care, but he spends a lot of time on twitter with burner accounts for a guy that doesn't care what people think of him.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#514 » by ThunderBolt » Sun May 26, 2019 3:02 am

In the current nba there isn’t a single player who can get away with not being able to shoot. Its no secret i’m not a fan of Russ but I am a huge fan of Giannis. Even he gets massively exploited in the playoffs by not having a jumper. If we are being fair, the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with an ideal fitting roster but the role players can only compensate for his weaknesses so much.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#515 » by Kizz Fastfists » Sun May 26, 2019 4:40 am

ThunderBolt wrote:In the current nba there isn’t a single player who can get away with not being able to shoot. Its no secret i’m not a fan of Russ but I am a huge fan of Giannis. Even he gets massively exploited in the playoffs by not having a jumper. If we are being fair, the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with an ideal fitting roster but the role players can only compensate for his weaknesses so much.


Giannis and Ben Simmons get away with it better than anyone I've ever seen. Simmons refuses to shoot 3s because he knows he can't make them. Both of them get exploited some for it, but they have a good group around them and are smart enough to make it work. They don't force the issue and take a ton of bad shots. They keep their ego in check and make the defense pay for giving them space by using the space to get them closer to the rack and dare the smaller players to take the charge or they know who is going to help and they have a spot to get to and then kick it to a player they anticipate being able to get a better shot or move the ball to exploit the defense.

Giannis drastically improved his percentage on long 2s this year and if he ever becomes a 35% shooter from 3, keep in mind LeBron didn't really develop his 3pt shot until he was the age Giannis is now, then Giannis becomes even more deadly. Simmons needs to develop a reliable mid-range shot for next season to take a big step forward, but as long as they can keep Butler and Tobias in FA Simmons will function at a high level even without the shooting.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#516 » by Pillendreher » Sun May 26, 2019 8:06 am

ThunderBolt wrote:In the current nba there isn’t a single player who can get away with not being able to shoot. Its no secret i’m not a fan of Russ but I am a huge fan of Giannis. Even he gets massively exploited in the playoffs by not having a jumper. If we are being fair, the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with an ideal fitting roster but the role players can only compensate for his weaknesses so much.


it's still crazy to me how that team was so good all year long. Still doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

------------------

Good for Toronto. They gambled with big aquisitions and it paid off. Meanwhile our biggest move in the Durant era was the Perkins trade and the Anthony Morrow signing.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#517 » by Kizz Fastfists » Sun May 26, 2019 8:52 am

Pillendreher wrote:Good for Toronto. They gambled with big aquisitions and it paid off. Meanwhile our biggest move in the Durant era was the Perkins trade and the Anthony Morrow signing.


Waiters? Kanter? Technically, the Dipo trade was during the kd era. At the time of the trade they expected him to resign. Your point that there was a lack of big moves to go all-in is accurate. Presti has seemingly made more moves since kd left than he did before. It makes no sense. Post-kd you have PG, Patterson, Morris, Grant, Melo, Schroder and Noel which is at least as much as Presti did during the kd era if not more.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#518 » by Pillendreher » Sun May 26, 2019 10:36 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:Good for Toronto. They gambled with big aquisitions and it paid off. Meanwhile our biggest move in the Durant era was the Perkins trade and the Anthony Morrow signing.


Waiters? Kanter? Technically, the Dipo trade was during the kd era. At the time of the trade they expected him to resign. Your point that there was a lack of big moves to go all-in is accurate. Presti has seemingly made more moves since kd left than he did before. It makes no sense. Post-kd you have PG, Patterson, Morris, Grant, Melo, Schroder and Noel which is at least as much as Presti did during the kd era if not more.


It's because he thought he could get away with all that bull due to Durant and Westbrook staying together till eternity. That duo by itself meant that we were contending every season no matter what was put around them. He had no sense of urgency whatsoever. Hell, in the 18 months leading to Durant's departure, he aquired multiple bad players while overpaying for them and signed a guy to be the HC without a single minute of NBA experience because they were buddies. One could say he was daring Durant to leave with that bull.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#519 » by Thunder Up » Sun May 26, 2019 11:08 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:In the current nba there isn’t a single player who can get away with not being able to shoot. Its no secret i’m not a fan of Russ but I am a huge fan of Giannis. Even he gets massively exploited in the playoffs by not having a jumper. If we are being fair, the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with an ideal fitting roster but the role players can only compensate for his weaknesses so much.


Simmons needs to develop a reliable mid-range shot for next season to take a big step forward, but as long as they can keep Butler and Tobias in FA Simmons will function at a high level even without the shooting.


Man, stop. Simmons will never develop a shot. Also, his complete offensive scoring ineptitude and afraid to shoot anything outside of the paint offense is terrible and should not be given credit as being “smart”. But go ahead.

That team will never win or appear in a finals with him running the show.
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Re: Around the NBA: 2018—19 

Post#520 » by Old Man Game » Sun May 26, 2019 12:27 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:So the Warriors are likely going to win by a sweep in the conference finals, WITHOUT Durant.

If they win the title this year and do so without significant contribution from Durant in the 2 last rounds, AND Durant re-signs there anyway, he's a freakin' cuck, doormat of a person.

Another thing, we all focus on what we lost when he left for Golden State around here, but watching them without him I'm reminded of what the basketball world generally lost. This version of the Warriors is so much more entertaining. There's actual drama. There's some chance they'll lose and when they play great and win anyway its so much more fun than watching them with Durant out there just steamroll everyone.


even with durant i'm not sure milwaukee would be a pushover for the warriors if they get there.


You jinxed them so hard with this. They were up 2-0 in the series when you made this comment and then got the 2012 Spurs treatment (and Leonard and Danny Green ought to know something about that).

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