12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST

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Player(s) of the Game

Paul George | 31 PTS (11-24 FG, 3-6 3P), 11 REB
3
23%
Jerami Grant | 14 PTS (6-10 FG), 7 REB
1
8%
Steven Adams | 12 PTS (6-10 FG)
1
8%
Russell Westbrook | 23 PTS (10-19 FG), 11 REB, 10 AST
5
38%
Nerlens Noel | 5 REB, 2 AST, 2 BLK
0
No votes
Patrick Patterson | 6 PTS (2-2 3P)
2
15%
Other (specify below)
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#221 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:05 pm

TheGreatSatan wrote:It was the turning point of the game. You just don't leave such a good shooter like Covington wide open at the 3. So, instead of a tie game you are down 3 and have to play catch up for the rest of the game.

So instead he should've left KAT wide open at the three point line?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#222 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:07 pm

slick_watts wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
these guys will make every excuse in the universe for russell westbrook. even if you grant the help defense as necessary (i agree with you that it probably was not, at least not that aggressive), russ getting faked out of his shoes by covington was a blatant failure.

This isn't mythbusters, you don't get to reject reality. Fact is you want to blame everything in Westbrook, most likely for reaction, and you'll double down even when you're demonstrably wrong. Pretending you're the one being objective is silly.


westbrook got beat on this play. he didn't lose this game on his own. but, this play contributed just as much to the loss as alex abrines missing his open three did. i wouldn't have posted the video if i hadn't analyzed it closely.

Adams got beat on this play, then Westbrook got beat covering for Steven. It may even go further, I don't remember if Adams needed to help on Jones or if he just over committed.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#223 » by JustOneFix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:08 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
TheGreatSatan wrote:It was the turning point of the game. You just don't leave such a good shooter like Covington wide open at the 3. So, instead of a tie game you are down 3 and have to play catch up for the rest of the game.

So instead he should've left KAT wide open at the three point line?


I think Adams would still manage to recover and at least bother Towns a little. And it wasn't even sure if KAT would have shoot it. On the other hand, leaving Covington was just the worst possible option.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#224 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:09 pm

TheGreatSatan wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
TheGreatSatan wrote:It was the turning point of the game. You just don't leave such a good shooter like Covington wide open at the 3. So, instead of a tie game you are down 3 and have to play catch up for the rest of the game.

So instead he should've left KAT wide open at the three point line?


I think Adams would still manage to recover and at least bother Towns a little. And it wasn't even sure if KAT would have shoot it. On the other hand, leaving Covington was just the worst possible option.

Kat wasn't shooting it because Russ helped onto him. This is just pure stupidity.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#225 » by JustOneFix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:15 pm

I am not sure. I played basketball. There is no way i would leave a guy like Covington like that under any circumstances. I'm sticking by him and let Town shoot over Adams running in his direction....
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#226 » by DoubleJ13 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:18 pm

Knew it was a loss when Dieng hit that spinning 3 with the shot clock expiring off an inbounds, was one of those basketball gods are on their side kind of plays. Then they got the Grant foul when every big was boxing each other out & KAT not getting the call for grabbing Grant after that block that kept him from getting the ball & it ended up with the Dario 3.

Russ at least looked more like Russ in the 4th, hopefully it's him coming out of his funk.

Schroder was really bad this game, just looked like he never knew what he wanted to do & by the time he was forced to do something, he ended up in the worst possible situation everytime.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#227 » by NaturalThunder » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:22 pm

DoubleJ13 wrote:Knew it was a loss when Dieng hit that spinning 3 with the shot clock expiring off an inbounds, was one of those basketball gods are on their side kind of plays. Then they got the Grant foul when every big was boxing each other out & KAT not getting the call for grabbing Grant after that block that kept him from getting the ball & it ended up with the Dario 3.

Russ at least looked more like Russ in the 4th, hopefully it's him coming out of his funk.

Schroder was really bad this game, just looked like he never knew what he wanted to do & by the time he was forced to do something, he ended up in the worst possible situation everytime.

That Dieng three is the exact moment I turned the game on for the first time. Last night was our "drive around and look at Christmas lights" night. I felt like I was a bald luck charm.

And yeah, there was some questionable officiating down the stretch that went Minny's way. In just the one quarter I was able to watch, it just seemed to be the T-Wolves night.
Said in a thread about which point guards would make OKC better if they replaced Westbrook:
Coxy wrote:I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#228 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:38 pm

TheGreatSatan wrote:I am not sure. I played basketball. There is no way i would leave a guy like Covington like that under any circumstances. I'm sticking by him and let Town shoot over Adams running in his direction....

Oh, you PLAYED BASKETBALL? sorry man, I didn't know! Guys, guys, this guy PLAYED BASKETBALL, does anyone have questions for the guy who PLAYED BASKETBALL???
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#229 » by SecondTake » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:45 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
They played more minutes than usual vs Utah, yes, but that's been the exception. Paul George is leading the team in minutes at 35 a night. They should be able to handle a Timberwolves team that didn't have its best shooter and only got 27 minutes from his by far best player.

But I'm glad that you mentioned the starters (I looked at Noel's on court data because he only plays with bench lineups):

Image

The last time the bench outperformed the opponent on average based on its performance so far was after our first win of the season, 5 games in. Now we're looking at a defense that is ~7.4 points per 100 possessions better than league average and at an offense that is 18 points per 100 possessions (I kid you not) worse than league average. Or as cleaningtheglass would put it: 97th percentile defensively, 2nd percentile offensively. This cannot go on. The offensive output of this team with Schröder+bench is pathetic. I greatly dislike Kanter, but hell, at least with him+bench we always scored.
Christ that's bad. We're there early 00s Pistons but of benches.

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I suspect that Schroder is struggling to play with guys who cannot create their own offense. Schroder has to create everything on 2U because he’s the only one who can (unless George is in with 2U). I think this is why Donovan has been inserting George into the 2nd unit when he feels like he can afford to.

I would argue that it’s too easy for most defenses to guard a lineup where only one guy can create for himself. Unless you are so dominant at creating for others and yourself (James, old Westbrook, Durant, Curry, etc.), an offense built like that is going to fail way more times than not.

We need at least one more guy who can create his own offense off the bench not named Schroder. I think the best way of rectifying this situation is by attempting to turn Schroder + one of our wings into 2 “under-the-radar” guys who can create their own offense and be successful given space. Having 2 or 3 capable creators and 2 or 3 guys who can thrive off of others creating for them is the recipe to success.

Spacing and creating is the biggest issue right now for our second unit. I’d be interested to see what everyone’s shooting #s are when they are wide open or have space to shoot the ball. I’ll have to check into the shot tracking data via NBA stats. Also, it would be helpful to understand what kind of shots our 2U guys are taking. Namely Patterson and Abrines. Would be cool if there was a tool to tell you how many defenders are nearby when a shot is attempted.

Also, the un-sustainability of this team is a clear and valid cause for concern and it is why I think we could very well see a small but significant roster shake up at the deadline.


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Durant? He's terrible at creating offense for others. That's why his teams typically suck when his elite point guards are out, and still play great ball when he's out but the elite PG is in. He doesn't fit in to that sentence.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#230 » by JustOneFix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:50 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
TheGreatSatan wrote:I am not sure. I played basketball. There is no way i would leave a guy like Covington like that under any circumstances. I'm sticking by him and let Town shoot over Adams running in his direction....

Oh, you PLAYED BASKETBALL? sorry man, I didn't know! Guys, guys, this guy PLAYED BASKETBALL, does anyone have questions for the guy who PLAYED BASKETBALL???


Dude, chill out. I am just stating my personal experience in situation like this, nothing more.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#231 » by bondom34 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:24 pm

KAT is a 38% 3 point shooter.

Covington is 39%.

Some posters (one) will look for any reason to blame Russell Westbrook.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#232 » by thekaoswithin » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:32 pm

bondom34 wrote:KAT is a 38% 3 point shooter.

Covington is 39%.

Some posters (one) will look for any reason to blame Russell Westbrook.



The hate boner is strong. Dude made clutch plays on defence and offence down the stretch, what is he supposed to do? Not his fault that Abrines can't hit the side of a barn when the game is on the line.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#233 » by slick_watts » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:34 pm

whether or not the help on that play was warranted is immaterial, westbrook bit hard on the pump fake and covington ended up wide open. the hedge defense was over-aggressive.

this is one of several defensive errors by the team late that contributed to the loss. not all the errors were by westbrook.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#234 » by bondom34 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:49 pm

So in that case he just shouldn't contest shots. Because recovering for a pump fake would be something every player does if they want to contest
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#235 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:09 pm

slick_watts wrote:whether or not the help on that play was warranted is immaterial, westbrook bit hard on the pump fake and covington ended up wide open. the hedge defense was over-aggressive.

this is one of several defensive errors by the team late that contributed to the loss. not all the errors were by westbrook.


Scheme. We've seen this with Paul George when he made that incredible block on Booker after buying on the shot fake, our guys are supposed to close hard on three point shooters, unfortunately Russ was coming in from an angle that left him completely out of position, but he was put into that position trying to cover for a teammate. Ideally he closes harder on KAT to take away a passing lane and Steven X's to Covington on that play, but realistically once Steven got sucked into Jones driving you've gotta make a shot as difficult as you can and forcing Kat to give it up then making Covington pump and reset is about the second best outcome you could've hoped for.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#236 » by Old Man Game » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:KAT is a 38% 3 point shooter.

Covington is 39%.

Some posters (one) will look for any reason to blame Russell Westbrook.
This is one of those times it's helpful to remind ourselves it's 1 of 82.

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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#237 » by slick_watts » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:40 pm

bondom34 wrote:So in that case he just shouldn't contest shots. Because recovering for a pump fake would be something every player does if they want to contest


rotfl. seriously? he got juked out of his shoes. not every player gets juked out of their shoes in that situation. he wasn't closing out from the paint he was a few feet away.

i'm not painting a brush that the loss was westbrook's fault or that this play was the end of the game or anything. it's one bad outcome of several that got us in the predicament at the end.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#238 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:03 pm

SecondTake wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:Christ that's bad. We're there early 00s Pistons but of benches.

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I suspect that Schroder is struggling to play with guys who cannot create their own offense. Schroder has to create everything on 2U because he’s the only one who can (unless George is in with 2U). I think this is why Donovan has been inserting George into the 2nd unit when he feels like he can afford to.

I would argue that it’s too easy for most defenses to guard a lineup where only one guy can create for himself. Unless you are so dominant at creating for others and yourself (James, old Westbrook, Durant, Curry, etc.), an offense built like that is going to fail way more times than not.

We need at least one more guy who can create his own offense off the bench not named Schroder. I think the best way of rectifying this situation is by attempting to turn Schroder + one of our wings into 2 “under-the-radar” guys who can create their own offense and be successful given space. Having 2 or 3 capable creators and 2 or 3 guys who can thrive off of others creating for them is the recipe to success.

Spacing and creating is the biggest issue right now for our second unit. I’d be interested to see what everyone’s shooting #s are when they are wide open or have space to shoot the ball. I’ll have to check into the shot tracking data via NBA stats. Also, it would be helpful to understand what kind of shots our 2U guys are taking. Namely Patterson and Abrines. Would be cool if there was a tool to tell you how many defenders are nearby when a shot is attempted.

Also, the un-sustainability of this team is a clear and valid cause for concern and it is why I think we could very well see a small but significant roster shake up at the deadline.


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Durant? He's terrible at creating offense for others. That's why his teams typically suck when his elite point guards are out, and still play great ball when he's out but the elite PG is in. He doesn't fit in to that sentence.


Let’s just agree to disagree on that one. My main point still stands.


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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#239 » by JustOneFix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:58 pm

bondom34 wrote:KAT is a 38% 3 point shooter.

Covington is 39%.

Some posters (one) will look for any reason to blame Russell Westbrook.


Nope. Russel Westbrook is my favourite player in the league. The only reason i'm rooting for OKC is Westbrook. I am from Europe and i've never been in the USA, let alone Oklahoma. But I'll be the first one to say when one makes a non intelligent play, like this one.
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Re: 12/23 | G32: Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST 

Post#240 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:28 pm

TheGreatSatan wrote:
bondom34 wrote:KAT is a 38% 3 point shooter.

Covington is 39%.

Some posters (one) will look for any reason to blame Russell Westbrook.


Nope. Russel Westbrook is my favourite player in the league. The only reason i'm rooting for OKC is Westbrook. I am from Europe and i've never been in the USA, let alone Oklahoma. But I'll be the first one to say when one makes a non intelligent play, like this one.


After analyzing that play, it seems that Westbrook didn’t make the optimal play but he didn’t make a bad play. He was just a hair slow in making a defensive read and that’s just typical of Westbrook at this point. He’s not really known for his defense.

Adams also over-played his close out on Tyus as well by a hair. This is just what happens when you are worn out on 2nd night of a back to back. You tend to be a little bit slower in your reads when fatigue sets in.

The result was bad, of course, but this is the kind of predicament you catch yourself in when you are playing against a 7-foot center that can shoot the 3 and shoot it well.


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