1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST

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Player(s) of the Game

Paul George | 37 PTS (15-29 FG), 4 STL
9
75%
Steven Adams | 14 PTS (5-10 FG), 15 REB
2
17%
Abdel Nader | 10 PTS (4-6 FG)
1
8%
Other (specify below)
0
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Total votes: 12

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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#81 » by Pillendreher » Thu Jan 3, 2019 1:54 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:How is it any more embarrassing than any other trash talk?


The rest of us can see it whereas the trash talk we mostly wouldn't be privy to.

That's just a function of us paying attention to this team though. There are a lot of Guys doing this, and most of them are worse than Russ (ie Patrick Beverley). The only time I find it embarrassing is when you're doing it down 15.


Russ doing the Guitar was the best part of this game after George closing the game and the Fakers fans heading to the exits early.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#82 » by Old Man Game » Thu Jan 3, 2019 1:55 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:How is it any more embarrassing than any other trash talk?


The rest of us can see it whereas the trash talk we mostly wouldn't be privy to.

That's just a function of us paying attention to this team though. There are a lot of Guys doing this, and most of them are worse than Russ (ie Patrick Beverley). The only time I find it embarrassing is when you're doing it down 15.

I think that's sort of what he's implying. Everyone can see he almost literally can't shoot the ball anymore and yet he's still doing this stuff. Not a good look. Like trying to high step into the endzone with your team down 35 in the 4th quarter.

AT least, that's what I think he's getting at.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#83 » by slick_watts » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:12 pm

getrichordie wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
I don't disagree. Our bench sucks as a whole on offense. The thinking behind our bench is as long as our NetRtg can be as close to 0 as possible and not negative, then our starters should be able to win the game, but Westbrook has been worse than even my worst expectations for him. I knew Westbrook would struggle due to decline this year, but I didn't see this level of bad.


our starters are one of the best lineups in the nba, dude.


I know this, dude. But they aren't the only lineup playing out there. There's also a lot of minutes going to the Schroder-Westbrook lineups where Westbrook is taking the majority of the shots and missing them and Dennis can't do what he should be doing because Westbrook is taking up so many possessions...


schroder-westbrook is a failure because it can't defend. it's 10pp100 worse defensively than the normal starters. because schroder is bad defensively as a second guard. offensively it's about the same as the ferg starters. because schroder can't make spot up threes much better than terrance ferguson, which is what guards next to westbrook need to be able to do consistently.

westbrook is only 27% usage in that lineup, which is low for him. lower than george in that lineup, even. westbrook does dominate the ball in that lineup because he's still an effective play maker.

the problems with these lineups with schroder are due to deficiencies in schroder's game.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#84 » by JustOneFix » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:13 pm

I think Schroder is one of those guys whose advanced stats are not in his favor, but overall he's having a positive impact on the floor. Many will probably disagree but I actually think he had a pretty good game last night, despite his 4-13 shooting. Seems to me he was all over the floor. 10pts, 7rebs, 6 as....a long two late in the fourth, couple of lobs here and there, a steal, a floater, a layup....he was a factor. I really can't ask more from a bench guy.
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1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#85 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:14 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
getrichordie wrote:There's also a lot of minutes going to the Schroder-Westbrook lineups where Westbrook is taking the majority of the shots and missing them and Dennis can't do what he should be doing because Westbrook is taking up so many possessions...


And what is it that Schröder should be doing? When runnig the bench, he's an inefficient ballhog that has more broken lob passes than assists for 3s. When playing with the starters, he's an offensive afterthought because he can't shoot and because the other players are better options offensively. What exactly is this version of Schröder that team is depriving us of?


In an ideal world, Westbrook and Schroder would stagger so that Westbrook runs the 2U and Schroder runs the 1U. At least, I think that would make a lot of sense to help Westbrook get going against second stringers but ego is a real thing and I don’t think Westbrook would go for that.

But since this isn’t an ideal world, what we are being deprived of is better offense. Schroder is currently a better shooter than Westbrook, and I would argue has been better than Westbrook shooting-wise for sometime (even prior to this season; he just has had terrible spacing). So, if Schroder is a better shooter than Westbrook, then would it not be more efficient for Westbrook to take less shots and for Schroder to take more when we are talking about these Schroder-Westbrook lineups??

Not to mention, Westbrook’s legs look like dead meat once Schroder is on the floor with him. We should be using those fresh legs and letting Schroder handle the majority of the ball-handling duties to give Westbrook (and George) a break. Let Westbrook be a slasher or let him work on his catch and shoot game in these lineups. But no, Westbrook continues to shoot an awful %, and Schroder’s impact is dwindled.


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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#86 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:19 pm

TheGreatSatan wrote:I think Schroder is one of those guys whose advanced stats are not in his favor, but overall he's having a positive impact on the floor. Many will probably disagree but I actually think he had a pretty good game last night, despite his 4-13 shooting. Seems to me he was all over the floor. 10pts, 7rebs, 6 as....a long two late in the fourth, couple of lobs here and there, a steal, a floater, a layup....he was a factor. I really can't ask more from a bench guy.


People just see the negatives when talking about Schroder. They are blind to the positives for whatever reason... Everybody is all aboard the Schroder hate train because we need a scape goat when Westbrook is the real reason we are struggling so much when George isn’t doing his best Durant impersonation.


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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#87 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:25 pm

getrichordie wrote:
TheGreatSatan wrote:I think Schroder is one of those guys whose advanced stats are not in his favor, but overall he's having a positive impact on the floor. Many will probably disagree but I actually think he had a pretty good game last night, despite his 4-13 shooting. Seems to me he was all over the floor. 10pts, 7rebs, 6 as....a long two late in the fourth, couple of lobs here and there, a steal, a floater, a layup....he was a factor. I really can't ask more from a bench guy.


People just see the negatives when talking about Schroder. They are blind to the positives for whatever reason... Everybody is all aboard the Schroder hate train because we need a scape goat when Westbrook is the real reason we are struggling so much when George isn’t doing his best Durant impersonation.


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You're yelling at clouds. Everyone knows Russ is struggling. We have have multiple threads about it and it's mentioned in all game threads.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#88 » by JustOneFix » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:27 pm

getrichordie wrote:
People just see the negatives when talking about Schroder. They are blind to the positives for whatever reason...


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Yeah i don't get it either. I'm highly convinced that he's a positive addition. This team has many issues and problems (non existing production by Peterson, Abrines, Ferguson, worst year by Westbrook since basically his rookie year etc etc) and yet, any time i come here, people are spitting on Schroder. I really can't even dare to imagine what would the bench look like without this guy...
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#89 » by slick_watts » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:40 pm

getrichordie wrote:In an ideal world, Westbrook and Schroder would stagger so that Westbrook runs the 2U and Schroder runs the 1U. At least, I think that would make a lot of sense to help Westbrook get going against second stringers but ego is a real thing and I don’t think Westbrook would go for that.

But since this isn’t an ideal world, what we are being deprived of is better offense. Schroder is currently a better shooter than Westbrook, and I would argue has been better than Westbrook shooting-wise for sometime (even prior to this season; he just has had terrible spacing). So, if Schroder is a better shooter than Westbrook, then would it not be more efficient for Westbrook to take less shots and for Schroder to take more when we are talking about these Schroder-Westbrook lineups??

Not to mention, Westbrook’s legs look like dead meat once Schroder is on the floor with him. We should be using those fresh legs and letting Schroder handle the majority of the ball-handling duties to give Westbrook (and George) a break. Let Westbrook be a slasher or let him work on his catch and shoot game in these lineups. But no, Westbrook continues to shoot an awful %, and Schroder’s impact is dwindled.


you're on mars with some of these takes.

the obvious value you are missing with westbrook handling the ball instead of schroder is their value as play makers. schroder is sub-50 ts himself, using him as an on-ball scorer isn't going to solve anything in any lineup. and because he's very poor in the pick and roll and far worse than westbrook at creating looks for others-- it makes absolutely no sense for him to handle the ball in those units. none. the fact that he's a better three point shooter than westbrook is additional support for him to remain off the ball and selective with his shot taking.

i don't think you're a troll, really. i just think your arguments are so spacey you jumble them up and trip over yourself. i.e. in this one you want schroder to handle the ball because he shoots better than westbrook, but go on to say westbrook should be shooting catch and shoot threes. say what?

you need an excel file for your hot takes so you stop getting confused.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#90 » by spearsy23 » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:51 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
The rest of us can see it whereas the trash talk we mostly wouldn't be privy to.

That's just a function of us paying attention to this team though. There are a lot of Guys doing this, and most of them are worse than Russ (ie Patrick Beverley). The only time I find it embarrassing is when you're doing it down 15.

I think that's sort of what he's implying. Everyone can see he almost literally can't shoot the ball anymore and yet he's still doing this stuff. Not a good look. Like trying to high step into the endzone with your team down 35 in the 4th quarter.

AT least, that's what I think he's getting at.

He's still having a large positive impact on the game. But even beyond that it's not like he's doing it after airballs, and being a superstar has never been mandatory to talk trash. There's a difference between losing and shooting poorly, and if a guy is talking trash in a close game or while blowing the other guys out then there's nothing embarrassing about it.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#91 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:58 pm

slick_watts wrote:
getrichordie wrote:In an ideal world, Westbrook and Schroder would stagger so that Westbrook runs the 2U and Schroder runs the 1U. At least, I think that would make a lot of sense to help Westbrook get going against second stringers but ego is a real thing and I don’t think Westbrook would go for that.

But since this isn’t an ideal world, what we are being deprived of is better offense. Schroder is currently a better shooter than Westbrook, and I would argue has been better than Westbrook shooting-wise for sometime (even prior to this season; he just has had terrible spacing). So, if Schroder is a better shooter than Westbrook, then would it not be more efficient for Westbrook to take less shots and for Schroder to take more when we are talking about these Schroder-Westbrook lineups??

Not to mention, Westbrook’s legs look like dead meat once Schroder is on the floor with him. We should be using those fresh legs and letting Schroder handle the majority of the ball-handling duties to give Westbrook (and George) a break. Let Westbrook be a slasher or let him work on his catch and shoot game in these lineups. But no, Westbrook continues to shoot an awful %, and Schroder’s impact is dwindled.


you're on mars with some of these takes.

the obvious value you are missing with westbrook handling the ball instead of schroder is their value as play makers. schroder is sub-50 ts himself, using him as an on-ball scorer isn't going to solve anything in any lineup. and because he's very poor in the pick and roll and far worse than westbrook at creating looks for others-- it makes absolutely no sense for him to handle the ball in those units. none. the fact that he's a better three point shooter than westbrook is additional support for him to remain off the ball and selective with his shot taking.

i don't think you're a troll, really. i just think your arguments are so spacey you jumble them up and trip over yourself. i.e. in this one you want schroder to handle the ball because he shoots better than westbrook, but go on to say westbrook should be shooting catch and shoot threes. say what?

you need an excel file for your hot takes so you stop getting confused.


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...

Moving on, I understand your concern about taking the ball out of Westbrook’s hands and asking him to shoot catch and shoot threes. I look at it as the lesser of two evils with the first evil being Westbrook jacking up far too many >10 ft. pull ups and not making nearly enough of them...

Is Westbrook not going to have to change his game anyway to adapt to his decline? My take is that he might as well get started by letting Schroder feed him the ball when he’s wide open as defenses are going to sag on to him anyway...

Either way, neither “evil”/approach is ideal, but I would argue we should at least try that approach as I think it has its merits vs. hoping and praying Westbrook finds his legs AND finds his shot...

And to your point about Schroder’s TS%, I would argue that any ball-dominant player’s TS% is going to take a dive (unless you are an all-star level player) when he’s spending X amount of minutes next to Westbrook and X amount of minutes on this current iteration of the 2U... I know, I know... it’s surprising when a ball-dominant player becomes less effective when you take the ball out of his hands (shocker!)

And to your point about P&R action being an issue for Schroder, I would argue that he would progress in that regard if he were able to spend ample time with Adams and develop that chemistry with him. I could be wrong, but I want to say that his P&R action with Adams was actually quite effective when Westbrook was out with injury, but it’s been so long that I’ll have to go back and look...

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1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#92 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:04 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:That's just a function of us paying attention to this team though. There are a lot of Guys doing this, and most of them are worse than Russ (ie Patrick Beverley). The only time I find it embarrassing is when you're doing it down 15.

I think that's sort of what he's implying. Everyone can see he almost literally can't shoot the ball anymore and yet he's still doing this stuff. Not a good look. Like trying to high step into the endzone with your team down 35 in the 4th quarter.

AT least, that's what I think he's getting at.

He's still having a large positive impact on the game. But even beyond that it's not like he's doing it after airballs, and being a superstar has never been mandatory to talk trash. There's a difference between losing and shooting poorly, and if a guy is talking trash in a close game or while blowing the other guys out then there's nothing embarrassing about it.


Serious question. What’s the evidence that Westbrook is having a SIGNIFICANT! positive offensive impact on the game?

I would think looking at ORPM would give us a clue, but I would have to examine exactly what numbers go into that...

He’s been better on the defensive end with getting deflections/steals, but he’s still taking off defensive possessions and letting his man blow right by him or isn’t switching fast enough... but where’s the evidence that he is having a positive impact on that end?

I’m skeptical from an analytics perspective...


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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#93 » by SecondTake » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:08 pm

Nader is balling. He's playing a lot better than Abrines usually plays, and obviously a million times better than Patterson. I'd like to see him get more minutes than Abrines when he comes back. He's doing everything AA does, but better.

There's a few 2U lineups that I think would perform a lot better, all involving Nader;

Shroder/Abrines/Nader/Patterson/Noel - This would be about as good floor spacing as you'll get on this team. Would be interesting to see how Shroder makes this unit work, because he would have shooters (on paper) to pass too

Shroder/Abrines/Diallo/Nader/Noel - Small ball, fast lineup for breaks

Shroder/Diallo/Nader/Patterson/Noel - Diallo removes spacing, but he's been overall better than Abrines this year so I'd like to test this lineup - kind of a combo of a little shooting and a little finishing.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#94 » by Pillendreher » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:15 pm

getrichordie wrote:And to your point about Schroder’s TS%, I would argue that any ball-dominant player’s TS% is going to take a dive (unless you are an all-star level player) when he’s spending X amount of minutes next to Westbrook and X amount of minutes on this current iteration of the 2U... I know, I know... it’s surprising when a ball-dominant player becomes less effective when you take the ball out of his hands (shocker!)


You're running in circles with this stuff. One post it's Schröder is too good he needs a bigger role. The next one it's his teammates suck. Now we're back to he is not built for the role you've been advocating. What is it then? You're running out of excuses for him at this point.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#95 » by Mattv » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:24 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Mattv wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:Also is Nader a guy yet?
I really like Nader. But if Schroder isnt going to pass the ball he not going to help.
Also I think Nader is better with the ball than off the ball.

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Why are we talking about Schroder’s passing being a problem. Westbrook went 3/20 tonight. He’s the one that should have been doing more passing... there’s no cap on how much passing he can do and there’s no cap on assists...


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Well the reason why I'm talking about Schoder needs to pass the ball is because Schroder needs to pass the ball.I cant speak for anyone elese though.

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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#96 » by thekaoswithin » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:34 pm

Schroder is excellent at finding the lob out of the PnR, but that's about it. Didn't see anything other than from him tonight.
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#97 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:36 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
getrichordie wrote:And to your point about Schroder’s TS%, I would argue that any ball-dominant player’s TS% is going to take a dive (unless you are an all-star level player) when he’s spending X amount of minutes next to Westbrook and X amount of minutes on this current iteration of the 2U... I know, I know... it’s surprising when a ball-dominant player becomes less effective when you take the ball out of his hands (shocker!)


You're running in circles with this stuff. One post it's Schröder is too good he needs a bigger role. The next one it's his teammates suck. Now we're back to he is not built for the role you've been advocating. What is it then? You're running out of excuses for him at this point.


Really, bro? Really? Does everyone outside of Schroder on the 2U not suck on offense? Abrines is an exception, but he's M.I.A. Am I supposed to believe that he's playing with really good players on the offensive side of the ball in the second unit?

Schroder needs a bigger role when he's out there with Westbrook instead of standing off-ball and watching Westbrook chuck. It's something we really haven't explored and probably don't care too because Westbrook "needs" his shots. So when I'm talking about Schroder needing a bigger role, I mean he needs a bigger role specifically in those lineups... I'm not saying it has to be drastically bigger but his role definitely needs to increase some.

Schroder's game isn't an ideal fit for Westbrook/George as much as Westbrook's game isn't an ideal fit for Schroder/George. Same goes for the second unit... Westbrook's game is not an ideal fit nor is his current game built to sustain the 2U by himself. But alas, the reality is that Schroder and Westbrook are still the tools we have to work with to win games... so I don't understand how this is confusing to you as we have to make the best damn lemonade we can given the lemons we are working with... and I'm suggesting to you that we aren't doing that because Westbrook "needs" his shots...
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#98 » by getrichordie » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:49 pm

thekaoswithin wrote:Schroder is excellent at finding the lob out of the PnR, but that's about it. Didn't see anything other than from him tonight.


I think he’s pretty good in the regard too but a lot of people are focusing on when he’s getting double-teamed because he has little to no help on the offensive end so defenders just double him when Noel rolls because the spacing is non-existent...


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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#99 » by Pillendreher » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:55 pm

thekaoswithin wrote:Schroder is excellent at finding the lob out of the PnR


Image
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Re: 1/2 | G37: Oklahoma City Thunder at Los Angeles Lakers - 9:30PM CST 

Post#100 » by Dn4sty » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:57 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
thekaoswithin wrote:Schroder is excellent at finding the lob out of the PnR


Image


He’s literally had 2 or 3 good lob passes all year. If it wasn’t for Nerlens being Gumby and having “go go gadget arms”, Schroder would look even worse

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