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Posted in another thread, but would be interested in seeing more opinions about Nader + 2U options here;

Nader is balling. He's playing a lot better than Abrines usually plays, and obviously a million times better than Patterson. I'd like to see him get more minutes than Abrines when he comes back. He's doing everything AA does, but better.

There's a few 2U lineups that I think would perform a lot better, all involving Nader;

Shroder/Abrines/Nader/Patterson/Noel - This would be about as good floor spacing as you'll get on this team. Would be interesting to see how Shroder makes this unit work, because he would have shooters (on paper) to pass too

Shroder/Abrines/Diallo/Nader/Noel - Small ball, fast lineup for breaks

Shroder/Diallo/Nader/Patterson/Noel - Diallo removes spacing, but he's been overall better than Abrines this year so I'd like to test this lineup - kind of a combo of a little shooting and a little finishing.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here... as I was probably higher on Nader than most coming into the season...

What's the evidence that Nader "needs WAY more minutes?"

He had a solid game against a weak Lakers' second unit and a weak Suns' second unit..

He did have a semi-competent game against Dallas the other night but only saw 13 minutes of action for a reason...

SecondTake wrote:Posted in another thread, but would be interested in seeing more opinions about Nader + 2U options here;

Nader is balling. He's playing a lot better than Abrines usually plays, and obviously a million times better than Patterson. I'd like to see him get more minutes than Abrines when he comes back. He's doing everything AA does, but better.

There's a few 2U lineups that I think would perform a lot better, all involving Nader;

Shroder/Abrines/Nader/Patterson/Noel - This would be about as good floor spacing as you'll get on this team. Would be interesting to see how Shroder makes this unit work, because he would have shooters (on paper) to pass too

Shroder/Abrines/Diallo/Nader/Noel - Small ball, fast lineup for breaks

Shroder/Diallo/Nader/Patterson/Noel - Diallo removes spacing, but he's been overall better than Abrines this year so I'd like to test this lineup - kind of a combo of a little shooting and a little finishing.

I would also like to see a lineup of
Schroder Diallo (Burton/Grantham) Nader and Noel. But Nader deserves more min and touches.

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getrichordie wrote:Just to play Devil's Advocate here... as I was probably higher on Nader than most coming into the season...

What's the evidence that Nader "needs WAY more minutes?"

He had a solid game against a weak Lakers' second unit and a weak Suns' second unit..

He did have a semi-competent game against Dallas the other night but only saw 13 minutes of action for a reason...

It's not really about how good Nader is or isn't - it's about how bad the guys starting ahead of him are. Abrines and Patterson soak up minutes with virtually no production, even against bad teams.

There's also the question of spacing, which our bench is atrocious at. On paper Abrines/Patterson should be decent spacers. If you add in Nader and play a lineup of Shroder/Abrines/Nader/Patt it may open up better shots for all those guys and they may start knocking them down. It also gives Shroder more space in the lane and options to pass to. Patterson and Abrines have been terrible as spacers overall, but it's worth trying to add in an extra guy that might help create additional space for everyone.

When I say "way more" minutes - I mean 15-20 min a game and see what happens. He should certainly be getting more minutes than Pat or Abrines given how unproductive they are, but by combining all three we might get better results without putting any of them in the dog house. Still need to work Diallo in there with some combinations too because I see him potentially taking the kind of defensive jump Furg has in the off season coupled with better finishing.

if alex abrines is out indefinitely he should play by default i guess. it's either him or tlc. i don't think either will be much better than the other over the long run. nader is painfully slow on defense.

slick_watts wrote:if alex abrines is out indefinitely he should play by default i guess. it's either him or tlc. i don't think either will be much better than the other over the long run. nader is painfully slow on defense.

If you wanna win games just play him over diallo.i don't know if it's a big enough upgrade to hinder whatever development diallo is getting though

spearsy23 wrote:If you wanna win games just play him over diallo.i don't know if it's a big enough upgrade to hinder whatever development diallo is getting though

I would rather see Diallo develop. Although, I think they can get some time for both. The problem is you basically know what Nadar is and that isn't anything special. If Diallo can shoot he can be special. Technically, Diallo doesn't need playing time to develop his shot, but Nader isn't going to give you anything more than a low end 3&D guy, which is good for his contract as a bench player who comes in when injuries force the issue. Nadar is older than Abrines and has shown to be inferior. I have a hard time saying to bench Diallo for someone inferior to Abrines and call it a win now move.

Think I might be biased against him solely off of his tube socks + solid black shoes combo.

slick_watts wrote:if alex abrines is out indefinitely he should play by default i guess. it's either him or tlc. i don't think either will be much better than the other over the long run. nader is painfully slow on defense.

He is slow and not very bouncy. He doesn't move like an NBA caliber athlete. Also, it could be my imagination but I swear his arms look really short by the standards of modern rotation caliber NBA wings.

I'm ok him getting 2-3 more minutes, he deserved them knocking his shots down and playing somewhat decent D.
Especially trying him along starters minus Ferg.

After hearing a few takes on Nader, I think his value in our offense is worth exploring for a little bit. I tend to like guys who are making the most of their opportunity. I’d keep a short leash on Nader but I think he has the potential to be our 9th man which isn’t saying a lot but I think he can be effective as a 9th man if we can upgrade our top to middle level of our roster slightly.


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Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

This is not how defence works, or our team would be historically dominant. Knowing what to do is one thing and doing it is another.

thekaoswithin wrote:

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

This is not how defence works, or our team would be historically dominant. Knowing what to do is one thing and doing it is another.

I beg to differ: I never got any sort of coaching in Tennis, but I can dish out a stop volley just like Federer. I can even put some spin on it with the backhand. And I learned that just by watching him.

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

Ferg went from a terrible defender to an elite one from working With Roberson over film sessions. Nader has enough length and athleticism to be a serviceable defense if he learns his angles and rotations.

SecondTake wrote:

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

Ferg went from a terrible defender to an elite one from working With Roberson over film sessions. Nader has enough length and athleticism to be a serviceable defense if he learns his angles and rotations.

Ferg has elite side to side quickness and has begun to move his feet extremely well this year, and also possesses decent length. Nader on the other hand is a decent vertical athlete, but does not possess nba-caliber lateral quickness, which was evidenced by Marco Bellinelli blowing past him like 3 times the other night. Even Abrines is more quick laterally than Nader. This pains me to say, because I am a Nader Stan but odds are he'll never be very good on defense.

SecondTake wrote:

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

Ferg went from a terrible defender to an elite one from working With Roberson over film sessions. Nader has enough length and athleticism to be a serviceable defense if he learns his angles and rotations.

Nader is way too slow laterally to be a good perimeter defender in the NBA. He's also already 25 so a significant improvement in any area is way less likely than with Ferguson who was only 19 last season.

Bergmaniac wrote:

SecondTake wrote:

SecondTake wrote:Lets be real, Nader has been much better than either Patterson or Abrines. He's been a spark plug and I think he can be a solid contributer. Let him watch some film with Roberson and he'll be unstoppable on both ends.

Ferg went from a terrible defender to an elite one from working With Roberson over film sessions. Nader has enough length and athleticism to be a serviceable defense if he learns his angles and rotations.

Nader is way too slow laterally to be a good perimeter defender in the NBA. He's also already 25 so a significant improvement in any area is way less likely than with Ferguson who was only 19 last season.

Well I dont expect him to become a great defender, but I think he can improve enough to at least not be a major liability. I'm thinking like an Abrines type improvement. Abrines isn't very quick either, but he's steadily improved to where he is servicable.

enough athleticism? nader is one of the least athletic wings in the league.

he needs to continue to make threes. that's about it. those wild drives to the rim don't seen sustainable to me.

slick_watts wrote:enough athleticism? nader is one of the least athletic wings in the league.

he needs to continue to make threes. that's about it. those wild drives to the rim don't seen sustainable to me.

Well, we should wait and see before making judgments about those drives. They've worked so far and if they continue to work it'll give him more space for 3s. His handle has been pretty decent and he's looked strong at the rim in keeping his balance.

His defense needs to improve at least a little bit, because for every shot he makes he gets beat for a counter. He should be able to defend as well as Abrines and he looks like he has more potential on the offense.