Off Season Trades

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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#141 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:06 am

Current young point guards in the west:

DAR
Jamal Murray
De’Aaron Fox
Ja Morant
Dejounte Murray and Derrick White
Lonzo Ball

Plus Curry, Westbrook, Lillard and Chris Paul entering the last stage of their careers. And between Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Exum, Utah will probably have a guard to throw in there..
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#142 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:17 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:Current young point guards in the west:

DAR
Jamal Murray
De’Aaron Fox
Ja Morant
Dejounte Murray and Derrick White
Lonzo Ball

Plus Curry, Westbrook, Lillard and Chris Paul entering the last stage of their careers. And between Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Exum, Utah will probably have a guard to throw in there..

I’m not followIng you. Does this mean we should get rid of shai because there are other point guards in the west that know how to play basketball?
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#143 » by spearsy23 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:00 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:The incentive would be trading one prospect you like at a position where you have two other starters for a prospect you like more at a different position.

That's not incentive, that's rationalization. It's an attempt to obfuscate the value difference with tangential factors. If we agree that brown/Shai are similar in their upside (and I do agree, although I think there's a better chance Shai reaches his, since upside is almost always about ability to create offense), then it's obvious Shai has more value based on contract situations. How does Boston make up for that value?

As for the roster situation, Chris Paul and Dennis Schroder are not going to have an impact on what prospects we rebuild with. And even if they were, Shai is 6'6" and started at sg for a playoff team last year.


They’re not “tangential factors”, there are differences in relative value. And SGA is earlier on the contract clock, but he also hasn’t established a floor like Jaylen Brown’s and doesn’t have the same elite athleticism. It seems to me an even swap, Boston is taking on more risk with a younger and less proven player but turning back the salary clock. The question for me is only whether it’s a trade either team would do, but I assess it as an equal exchange of value.

Shai was as good as Brown last year. He's every bit as proven. He's also 2 years younger and that's reflected in the contract situation. He's more valuable than jaylen brown, who I do like.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#144 » by spearsy23 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:09 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Current young point guards in the west:

DAR
Jamal Murray
De’Aaron Fox
Ja Morant
Dejounte Murray and Derrick White
Lonzo Ball

Plus Curry, Westbrook, Lillard and Chris Paul entering the last stage of their careers. And between Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Exum, Utah will probably have a guard to throw in there..

I’m not followIng you. Does this mean we should get rid of shai because there are other point guards in the west that know how to play basketball?

Have we gotten to the part of the conversation where a guy comes in and asks for a trade then tells you all the reasons you shouldn't like the guy he's asking for? Why do you want him then?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#145 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:18 pm

I would trade for Brown and don't mind overpaying him, especially if we are able to move CP3. However it doesn't make sense to move Shai to get Brown. I'd only offer picks and we know Danny loves him some picks.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#146 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:46 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Current young point guards in the west:

DAR
Jamal Murray
De’Aaron Fox
Ja Morant
Dejounte Murray and Derrick White
Lonzo Ball

Plus Curry, Westbrook, Lillard and Chris Paul entering the last stage of their careers. And between Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Exum, Utah will probably have a guard to throw in there..

I’m not followIng you. Does this mean we should get rid of shai because there are other point guards in the west that know how to play basketball?


No, I was just reacting to the claim that he’ll be a multiple all-star. Like, we’re sure about that even looking at the talent in the West?
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#147 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:59 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Current young point guards in the west:

DAR
Jamal Murray
De’Aaron Fox
Ja Morant
Dejounte Murray and Derrick White
Lonzo Ball

Plus Curry, Westbrook, Lillard and Chris Paul entering the last stage of their careers. And between Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Exum, Utah will probably have a guard to throw in there..

I’m not followIng you. Does this mean we should get rid of shai because there are other point guards in the west that know how to play basketball?


No, I was just reacting to the claim that he’ll be a multiple all-star. Like, we’re sure about that even looking at the talent in the West?


I think he has the potential. Some of those guys will be on the decline by the time Shai is ready. Some of them are already declining. Seems pretty generous to include Mudiay and Exum.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#148 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:35 am

Should we bite on the preseason success of an injury prone superstar talent and go after him? We could offer nuggets a really good package.

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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#149 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:57 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Should we bite on the preseason success of an injury prone superstar talent and go after him? We could offer nuggets a really good package.



Denver is trying to win now. What package are you going to offer that helps them do that?
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#150 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:13 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Should we bite on the preseason success of an injury prone superstar talent and go after him? We could offer nuggets a really good package.



Denver is trying to win now. What package are you going to offer that helps them do that?

It would have to involve Gallinari and Barton. I’ve read several Denver posters talking about going after Gallo because they still don’t have a great option at the three and Gallo can fill that. Reports are that Grant is likely to be used as a small ball 5 at times. That leads me to believe that he’ll also be at the four as well.

I’m not sure exactly what Porters value is but something along the lines of Gallo and Denver frp for Porter and Barton isn’t too far away. I haven’t played with it enough to get salaries exact and figure out what Porters real value which is not near as high as realgms inflated preseason value.

Even though Denver wants to win now, picks still have value to them. They’ll just use them to continue strengthening the team.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#151 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:11 pm

I just don't think Denver would give up the cost controlled upside of Porter for a rental. Especially with Malik Beasley hitting RFA. Denver's window is opening with Murray and Jokic still just 24 and 22. I think they are better off waiting to see if Porter becomes a relatively healthy all-star level player than to trade him for an older player. Keep in mind that Porter was projected to be the #1 pick before he got hurt in college. If he ends up as the highest impact player, per game, from that draft class even if he only plays 60 games a year and the playoffs there is no offer worth trading that. I don't think he ends up higher impact than Luka, but he could end up higher impact than Ayton on a per game basis. If Porter ends up putting the injuries behind him and being a 75+ game player for the next decade and living up to the pre-draft expectations then Denver will have something very special.

I would LOVE to have Porter and SGA. I just don't see anything OKC should offer that I feel Denver should accept. If Gallo and returning Denver's first would get Porter, Plumlee (expiring cap filler) and Torrey Craig (cap filler) I would do that. I just don't think Denver does it. Denver would be able to run out Murray, Barton, Gallo, Millsap and Jokic and have shooting all over the floor with Malik Beasley, Monte Morris and Gary Harris watching from the bench. I am using Plumlee as the big filler instead of Barton because I think Barton has more value to Denver. They have Tyler Zeller, Grant and Millsap who can all fill in at center while Jokic takes his rest and they have Bol Bol who might give them some decent bench minutes this year. It would work with Barton instead of Plumlee if Denver felt differently.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#152 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:22 pm

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Kizz Fastfists wrote:I just don't think Denver would give up the cost controlled upside of Porter for a rental. Especially with Malik Beasley hitting RFA. Denver's window is opening with Murray and Jokic still just 24 and 22. I think they are better off waiting to see if Porter becomes a relatively healthy all-star level player than to trade him for an older player. Keep in mind that Porter was projected to be the #1 pick before he got hurt in college. If he ends up as the highest impact player, per game, from that draft class even if he only plays 60 games a year and the playoffs there is no offer worth trading that. I don't think he ends up higher impact than Luka, but he could end up higher impact than Ayton on a per game basis. If Porter ends up putting the injuries behind him and being a 75+ game player for the next decade and living up to the pre-draft expectations then Denver will have something very special.

I would LOVE to have Porter and SGA. I just don't see anything OKC should offer that I feel Denver should accept. If Gallo and returning Denver's first would get Porter, Plumlee (expiring cap filler) and Torrey Craig (cap filler) I would do that. I just don't think Denver does it. Denver would be able to run out Murray, Barton, Gallo, Millsap and Jokic and have shooting all over the floor with Malik Beasley, Monte Morris and Gary Harris watching from the bench. I am using Plumlee as the big filler instead of Barton because I think Barton has more value to Denver. They have Tyler Zeller, Grant and Millsap who can all fill in at center while Jokic takes his rest and they have Bol Bol who might give them some decent bench minutes this year. It would work with Barton instead of Plumlee if Denver felt differently.


I don’t know how the Denver front office thinks but I do think this year is somewhat unique. We’ve had so many superteams that this year marks a unique year because any playoff team in the west truly has a shot if they go for it this year. Denver appears to be set for the foreseeable future but we’ve also seen situations like this fall apart quickly such as Boston or Minnesota. I think Denver could sacrifice some depth for a win now piece and be a much bigger threat and still be deeper than any other team in the west.

I doubt it’s a realistic possibility to get a deal done. However if OKC traded for porter is it more likely he plays 60 games this year or misses most of the season with back problems? That holds true if Denver keeps him too. He definitely has value but I wouldn’t throw tons of picks at him along with Gallo.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#153 » by NYG » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:17 am

If after giving it an effort of competing, the West is just too stacked and the Thunder find themselves at the bottom of the conference around the trade deadline.

1. Would you become sellers?
2. Which players would that include going out?
3. What kind of trade would you be looking to see for each player assuming an underwhelming start to the year?
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#154 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:33 am

NYG wrote:If after giving it an effort of competing, the West is just too stacked and the Thunder find themselves at the bottom of the conference around the trade deadline.

1. Would you become sellers?
2. Which players would that include going out?
3. What kind of trade would you be looking to see for each player assuming an underwhelming start to the year?


1- We are already sellers.
2- I would imagine everyone but Shai and Bazley. Possibly Ferguson and Diallo.
3-Asset accumulation. OKC has no reason to attach assets to dump players. If we are already sucking, we won't need to attach assets to players like Paul so we can continue to suck.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#155 » by NYG » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:16 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
NYG wrote:If after giving it an effort of competing, the West is just too stacked and the Thunder find themselves at the bottom of the conference around the trade deadline.

1. Would you become sellers?
2. Which players would that include going out?
3. What kind of trade would you be looking to see for each player assuming an underwhelming start to the year?


1- We are already sellers.
2- I would imagine everyone but Shai and Bazley. Possibly Ferguson and Diallo.
3-Asset accumulation. OKC has no reason to attach assets to dump players. If we are already sucking, we won't need to attach assets to players like Paul so we can continue to suck.


What about getting younger?

Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Roberson

No Assets moving either way
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#156 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:51 am

NYG wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
NYG wrote:If after giving it an effort of competing, the West is just too stacked and the Thunder find themselves at the bottom of the conference around the trade deadline.

1. Would you become sellers?
2. Which players would that include going out?
3. What kind of trade would you be looking to see for each player assuming an underwhelming start to the year?


1- We are already sellers.
2- I would imagine everyone but Shai and Bazley. Possibly Ferguson and Diallo.
3-Asset accumulation. OKC has no reason to attach assets to dump players. If we are already sucking, we won't need to attach assets to players like Paul so we can continue to suck.


What about getting younger?

Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Roberson

No Assets moving either way



No. Okc sends out $134,817,183 and receives $154,716,853 over more years.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#157 » by spearsy23 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:23 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
NYG wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
1- We are already sellers.
2- I would imagine everyone but Shai and Bazley. Possibly Ferguson and Diallo.
3-Asset accumulation. OKC has no reason to attach assets to dump players. If we are already sucking, we won't need to attach assets to players like Paul so we can continue to suck.


What about getting younger?

Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Roberson

No Assets moving either way



No. Okc sends out $134,817,183 and receives $154,716,853 over more years.

I'd do it. Either Wiggins improves or we're in the same situation as now but with a better draft pick. Maybe not dieng though. Wiggins/Teague?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#158 » by NYG » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:43 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
NYG wrote:
What about getting younger?

Wiggins and Dieng for Paul and Roberson

No Assets moving either way



No. Okc sends out $134,817,183 and receives $154,716,853 over more years.

I'd do it. Either Wiggins improves or we're in the same situation as now but with a better draft pick. Maybe not dieng though. Wiggins/Teague?


Would adding Teague and Schroder make a difference?
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#159 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Don't get why we would do that. Odds of CP3 playing well and be helpful for a team are higher than Wiggins starting to play good basketball and have neutral trade value.

Wiggins and Wall are the two players I want some assets in return in a CP3 trade.
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Re: Off Season Trades 

Post#160 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:57 pm

Sabonis on the block

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