2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread

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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#142 » by Pillendreher » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:07 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:https://newsok.com/article/5629451/watch-kendrick-perkins-calls-thunder-dysfunctional-on-espn


He's absolutely right, especially about this:

“Defensively, they can’t figure it out. We don’t know if they’re trapping CJ (McCollum), we don’t know if the they’re trapping Dame (Damian Lillard).


There is no general strategy to our defense against them. We're just doing the same stuff we've been doing all season, hoping Adams can be in two places at once and one of the guards actually bothers to stay with their defensive assignment in the PnR.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#143 » by JustOneFix » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:02 pm

If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#144 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:07 pm

JustOneFix wrote:If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?


Not enough to get Bradley Beal. Not even close :(
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#145 » by 1bigfan13 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:09 pm

Thundershock88 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
OKCThunder wrote:

Perfectly stated, wonder what we can get for Westbrook and PG? Hopefully high draft picks and young talent to develop.

Not a lot of places that Russ would fit. Lakers? Maybe. I could see Orlando taking him but I doubt we get much back. His contract makes things very difficult. If Kemba leaves, maybe Charlotte. George on the other hand could bring back some very nice assets.


As much as I want a blow up, let's face it, it ain't happening. We'll never get a star free agent to sign here again if we ship these guys off. The entire roster outside of Westbrook and George needs to be reconfigured. Even Adam's needs to be moved. We need shooters in every position around these guys.


I disagree with this portion of your comment. I don't think shipping off Westbrook and/or PG13 would condemn the OKC franchise. They've been a franchise known for being willing to spend money to compete for over a decade. I don't believe one personnel decision will undo tat 10 year track record. I'll also add that aside from PG13 resigning, OKC has never been able to attract quality free agents. So IMO it's a case of, "how can you miss what you never had".

Regarding the rest of the roster. I wouldn't be so quick to throw everyone else out. We definitely need to add at least two reliable shooters to the roster but I've seen many instances where once a roadblock is removed (Westbrook and Donovan in this case) players who weren't highly thought of, all of sudden were free to expand their games and developed into quality NBA players. Grant can be one of those guys, IMO. I still think Adams can provide more than what he's currently limited to. And Ferguson is only 20 he' still learning and growing. OKC's problem is they thrust him into the starting role and into heavy minutes when he's clearly not ready. I'd like to see us hold onto Ferguson for at least 2 more years. I don't want to see OKC ship him off too quickly like they did Jeremy Lamb who has developed into a pretty good SG.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#146 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:13 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
JustOneFix wrote:If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?


Not enough to get Bradley Beal. Not even close :(

Getting Bradley Beal wouldn't make a difference. He would just turn in to Anthony Morrow. Just watch what happens if Adams is moved. What do you think he would look like playing under Popovich or any other team with a system? He'll be a better version of the guy we see to start the season every year for three weeks except he want disappear.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#147 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:34 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
JustOneFix wrote:If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?


Not enough to get Bradley Beal. Not even close :(

Getting Bradley Beal wouldn't make a difference. He would just turn in to Anthony Morrow. Just watch what happens if Adams is moved. What do you think he would look like playing under Popovich or any other team with a system? He'll be a better version of the guy we see to start the season every year for three weeks except he want disappear.


I'm optimistic enough to think that some change is coming (Presti/Donovan out or Paul George is leaving). I fear the second option is the most probable but I don't know. I feel this team (Presti/Donovan/players) got embarrassed in such a way that they will have to make some changes. Clay Bennett won't pay more money in taxes to keep getting humiliated like this.

Worst case scenario would be that PG13 requires a trade and we keep being a mediocre team with Westbrook as our only ''good'' player while not making a real rebuild like we should.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#148 » by oreojenkins » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:37 pm

Presti, PG, and Russ to LA. Young players, picks, cap relief, and Sam Hinkie to OKC. That would be pretty funny, but I shudder at the thought of those Hollywood lifestyle guys in OKC lol. I really don't see LA being huge FA players with how most of these guys feel about LeBron, and they're desperate for some star power. If PG is going to be dealt, you have to attach/move Russ at the same time. It's not like PG doesn't fit with Russ, so moving him just to move him seems unwise. Lakers can make it so that they basically have LeBron only on their books.

I do think in all seriousness that Hinkie, if he wanted to return home(ish), would be perfect for a rebuild. OKC fans, media, and ownership would give him free rein to complete his vision.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#149 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:46 pm

oreojenkins wrote:Presti, PG, and Russ to LA. Young players, picks, cap relief, and Sam Hinkie to OKC. That would be pretty funny, but I shudder at the thought of those Hollywood lifestyle guys in OKC lol. I really don't see LA being huge FA players with how most of these guys feel about LeBron, and they're desperate for some star power. If PG is going to be dealt, you have to attach/move Russ at the same time. It's not like PG doesn't fit with Russ, so moving him just to move him seems unwise. Lakers can make it so that they basically have LeBron only on their books.

I do think in all seriousness that Hinkie, if he wanted to return home(ish), would be perfect for a rebuild. OKC fans, media, and ownership would give him free rein to complete his vision.


Lebron wouldn't want to play with Russ (even if they are friends). Lebron/Westbrook is such a bad fit. But I could see Presti and PG13 in LA. Problem is that the only good pick they have is this year.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#150 » by Andre Roberstan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Read on Twitter


This seems suboptimal
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#151 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:58 pm

Andre Roberstan wrote:
Read on Twitter


This seems suboptimal


Don't post this on GB. It could ruin some people agenda or you could read some weird reactions.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#152 » by SecondTake » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:15 pm

oreojenkins wrote:Presti, PG, and Russ to LA. Young players, picks, cap relief, and Sam Hinkie to OKC. That would be pretty funny, but I shudder at the thought of those Hollywood lifestyle guys in OKC lol. I really don't see LA being huge FA players with how most of these guys feel about LeBron, and they're desperate for some star power. If PG is going to be dealt, you have to attach/move Russ at the same time. It's not like PG doesn't fit with Russ, so moving him just to move him seems unwise. Lakers can make it so that they basically have LeBron only on their books.

I do think in all seriousness that Hinkie, if he wanted to return home(ish), would be perfect for a rebuild. OKC fans, media, and ownership would give him free rein to complete his vision.


I don't want Lebron to win. I want WB to win.

Having two on a single team would probably give me brain cancer.

I could live with it if Lebron takes the backseat to Russel, but I don't see it happening. Russ needs to win a ring with his own team as the number 1 guy.

If Lebron agrees to be his Robin I'm in, otherwise I'm out.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#153 » by SecondTake » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:17 pm

JustOneFix wrote:If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?


No to anything that includes Dwight.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#154 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:19 pm

It can be framed in a lot of different ways. 35% of Russ' passes are a potential assist. Jokic who is passing much more than Russ is only at 15%. We could say that Russ is passing for assists while Jokic is passing to help his team create offense. Just to throw it out there, you can make the same argument about Harden who has 38% of his passes go to a potential assist. That is just for the playoffs.

In the regular season 29% of Russ' passes were potential assists. Russ also had more than 5 potential assists per games more than anyone else in the NBA. We can debate if that is a Russ problem or an OKC problem. What I mean by that is that Russ doesn't pass to create ball movement he passes to create shot opportunities from an iso situation. I view it as an OKC problem. There is no motion in the offense for Russ to be able to pass, run off a screen, get the ball back and either have an open look or a wide open teammate or a pass leading to a wide open shot creating a secondary assist. For comparison, only 18% of Steph Curry's passes led to a potential assist because of their style of offense.

I'm not trying to say it is bad that Russ has such a high rate of potential assists per pass. I'm saying it is a result of OKC's lack of an offensive system that requires him to do everything. It holds the team back and while it allows Russ to put on a great show and put up great individual stats it limits the ceiling of the team. I blame part of it on Russ being what I perceive as stubborn and unwilling to learn and change, but I see more of it being the coaching he has received has always patted him on the back and encouraged him to be an athletic freak instead of becoming fundamentally sound and developing into a guy who can run an offense and knows when to change gears. I think at this point Russ is not going to change and is beyond help from a coaching change, but that he is that way because of the way he was "coached" when he was a young player and the encouragement he got to play this way. I blame Russ for his refusal to adjust his shot so he could become a more competent 3pt shooter and allowing his loss of knee strength to destroy his FT shooting instead of finding a motion that would work with his current limitations. I don't blame him for his overall play style although everyone has known for a long time I find a lot of things wrong with it. Donovan had a short window to try to reign him in and he didn't even try. I don't think any coach is going to take a 31 year old and turn them into a drastically different player. This is also why I think Russ' trade value at this point is significantly lower than what would be worth it to trade him so he might as well finish his career in OKC. PG is a different story as he showed in Indy he would play in a system and is the type of player that can fit in any system despite him saying he likes playing for Donovan because he lets him do what he wants. PG might not like playing in a system, but I think he is starting to see that a system works much better. His Indy teams were not more talented than OKC is, but they were much better in the playoffs because of the coaching and PG has to be starting to see that.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#155 » by Dadouv47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:01 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:It can be framed in a lot of different ways. 35% of Russ' passes are a potential assist. Jokic who is passing much more than Russ is only at 15%. We could say that Russ is passing for assists while Jokic is passing to help his team create offense. Just to throw it out there, you can make the same argument about Harden who has 38% of his passes go to a potential assist. That is just for the playoffs.

In the regular season 29% of Russ' passes were potential assists. Russ also had more than 5 potential assists per games more than anyone else in the NBA. We can debate if that is a Russ problem or an OKC problem. What I mean by that is that Russ doesn't pass to create ball movement he passes to create shot opportunities from an iso situation. I view it as an OKC problem. There is no motion in the offense for Russ to be able to pass, run off a screen, get the ball back and either have an open look or a wide open teammate or a pass leading to a wide open shot creating a secondary assist. For comparison, only 18% of Steph Curry's passes led to a potential assist because of their style of offense.

I'm not trying to say it is bad that Russ has such a high rate of potential assists per pass. I'm saying it is a result of OKC's lack of an offensive system that requires him to do everything. It holds the team back and while it allows Russ to put on a great show and put up great individual stats it limits the ceiling of the team. I blame part of it on Russ being what I perceive as stubborn and unwilling to learn and change, but I see more of it being the coaching he has received has always patted him on the back and encouraged him to be an athletic freak instead of becoming fundamentally sound and developing into a guy who can run an offense and knows when to change gears. I think at this point Russ is not going to change and is beyond help from a coaching change, but that he is that way because of the way he was "coached" when he was a young player and the encouragement he got to play this way. I blame Russ for his refusal to adjust his shot so he could become a more competent 3pt shooter and allowing his loss of knee strength to destroy his FT shooting instead of finding a motion that would work with his current limitations. I don't blame him for his overall play style although everyone has known for a long time I find a lot of things wrong with it. Donovan had a short window to try to reign him in and he didn't even try. I don't think any coach is going to take a 31 year old and turn them into a drastically different player. This is also why I think Russ' trade value at this point is significantly lower than what would be worth it to trade him so he might as well finish his career in OKC. PG is a different story as he showed in Indy he would play in a system and is the type of player that can fit in any system despite him saying he likes playing for Donovan because he lets him do what he wants. PG might not like playing in a system, but I think he is starting to see that a system works much better. His Indy teams were not more talented than OKC is, but they were much better in the playoffs because of the coaching and PG has to be starting to see that.


two main reasons for this :
1. Portland is mostly defending the paint and letting Ferguson/Grant open. So it's easier to make a potential assist
2. OKC doesn't know what ball movement is :(
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#156 » by acheema0 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:16 am

One Steve trade I think is possible is him to Atlanta for Prince-Len-Bazemore. Would give us wing depth and a decent enough center. Not sure though, we might have to include some sweeteners in the form of seconds.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#157 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:42 am

acheema0 wrote:One Steve trade I think is possible is him to Atlanta for Prince-Len-Bazemore. Would give us wing depth and a decent enough center. Not sure though, we might have to include some sweeteners in the form of seconds.


I believe Prince to be significantly more valuable to Atlanta than Adams. If Dallas doesn't get lucky in the lottery then Atlanta will have two top 10 picks and can easily pick a center they like next to Collins. I think Bazemore for Adams might work, but I'm not sure that really helps OKC. Continuing to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic while forcing the band to play isn't going to stop the ship from sinking.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#158 » by Osirus89 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:49 am

JustOneFix wrote:If they don't decide to rebuild after this fiasco, would anyone be interested in Bradley Beal & Dwight Howard for Adams and Ferguson?


I don't know if I could cheer for a team that has Dwight Howard and I LOVE Bradley Beal. If loving his game is wrong, I don't want to be right. Check the avi. However, I hate Dwight Howard with the most fiery of passions. He's a useless, shiftless, annoying goofball clown that every team he plays for starts to hate and can't wait to get rid of him. He's also been stealing money for the last 3-4 seasons. ATL, Charlotte, Washington. Dreadful player. I would rather Singler play 20 mins a night than have Dwight on the bench. **** Dwight Howard. :banghead:

I will say though... I'm done with Steven. I can't do it anymore. That might not be a most popular sentiment and that's fine, but I can't deal with his trick or treat contribution anymore. Does a lot of that fall on the coaching ? Maybe. But lets be honest and candid here. If you gave Steven more offensive responsibility, would it really make much more of a difference? Between not being a good FT shooter, not being able to shoot outside 8 feet, Presti being either incapable or stupidly negligent with shooting on the roster.. isn't it fair to question if there is another gear to unlock for him?

It's similar to the problems Utah is having with Gobert. They try from time to time to run something through him, but post offense is already pretty inefficient in the NBA and neither one of Gobert or Adams are proficient enough in the post to warrant getting a decent amount of post touches. Capela is similar, but Houston has shooters. So either Adams must be gone this off-season or there must be a massive infusion of shooting brought to this roster. The second is highly unlikely so it has to be the former.

It feels like Adams imposes a ceiling on the team between his contract and his limitations as a player. This wouldn't be as much of a concern if Russ's shooting hadn't gone extinct or PG was playing like he was earlier in the year, but it seems irreconcilable at this point. The team needs a legit third option and he's not it. Dennis Schroeder is most definitely not capable of that responsibility either. I would prefer Schroeder to be the one purged first, but I feel like both will be gone if they don't decide to outright rebuild. A rebuild feels extremely unlikely this soon after PG chose to stay with the team last summer so it would seem that seismic changes will occur this off-season that unfortunately won't involve Donovan or Presti even if they should.
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#159 » by acheema0 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:50 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
acheema0 wrote:One Steve trade I think is possible is him to Atlanta for Prince-Len-Bazemore. Would give us wing depth and a decent enough center. Not sure though, we might have to include some sweeteners in the form of seconds.


I believe Prince to be significantly more valuable to Atlanta than Adams. If Dallas doesn't get lucky in the lottery then Atlanta will have two top 10 picks and can easily pick a center they like next to Collins. I think Bazemore for Adams might work, but I'm not sure that really helps OKC. Continuing to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic while forcing the band to play isn't going to stop the ship from sinking.


There were reports coming out of there last year that they had soured on Prince and the new regime didnt like him. That's why I included him, and I agree doing that straight up would be useless
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Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#160 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:05 am

acheema0 wrote:There were reports coming out of there last year that they had soured on Prince and the new regime didnt like him. That's why I included him, and I agree doing that straight up would be useless


I read those reports, but I would think Atlanta could get at least a late 1st for Prince if they were going to move him and probably a mid 1st. At worst he's a 38% 3pt shooter who is not a defensive liability on a rookie contract. The reports seemed to suggest they were more concerned with paying Prince when his rookie deal was up more than his ability on the court. My impression at the time was that it had more to do with their perceived time line and that keeping Prince would prevent them from being able to potentially add a big FA if they wanted to.

I think Adams would be a good fit for Atlanta because of Collins' stretch ability at PF along with Trae. I just think Atlanta could draft Jaxson Hayes or Bol Bol and feel they are set at both big positions. Assuming Atlanta gets the Dallas pick they could end up drafting a wing and a big and then be thinking about FA next off-season and Adams' contract could disrupt FA thoughts.

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