2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread

Moderators: Andre Roberstan, ThunderBolt

User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#181 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:21 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:Sunk cost fallacy at its best. Presti has been prolonging the Kanter fiasco because of it and now we might get another wasted season because he once again acted prematurely guaranteeing the last year.


i think sam presti and the thunder might be more satisfied with billy donovan's performance than the fans. also, recall the point in the season when donovan's option was picked up. it was december 18, and the thunder defense looked ungodly and the offense was just waiting for abrines and others to 'wake up'. they probably also expected andre roberson to return at some point at that time.


I don't think it's good business to evaluate a performance a couple of weeks into the season. 29 games played at that point and not all of them against good competition.

slick_watts wrote:it seems to me that westbrook likes donovan, no?


I just looked at those quotes yesterday. You know what that sounds to me? It sounds like George and Westbrook are praising Donovan for not being a real coach, but for being a nice guy that just lets them be:

http://www.espn.in/nba/story/_/id/25560474/billy-donovan-oklahoma-city-thunder-coach-option-picked-final-year-contract

"It's great. It's great," Thunder star Paul George said after a 121-96 rout of the Bulls on Monday. "I'm here for multiple years. Russ is here for multiple years. Coach will be here for multiple years. That's good. That's good for Billy. I just know how it could be, with pressure. Sam [Presti] really alleviated that and just allowed him to coach us and not have to worry about that."


"I didn't hear about it until just now," Westbrook said after Monday's game. "But I mean, that's exciting, man. Billy's been nothing but great for our organization, for myself. He's been very understanding since he first got here and is the same now, and I'm excited to have him back."


That kind of guy might be good for a bunch of teenagers, but we need somebody who is more than just the cool uncle who lets you eat icecream before dinner.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#182 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:27 pm

Pillendreher wrote:I don't think it's good business to evaluate a performance a couple of weeks into the season. 29 games played at that point and not all of them against good competition.


i'm sure there was a deadline to pick the option up around that time. clearly, the thunder viewed donovan's performance differently than you do.

Pillendreher wrote:I just looked at those quotes yesterday. You know what that sounds to me? It sounds like George and Westbrook are praising Donovan for not being a real coach, but for being a nice guy that just lets them be:


i'm not going to denigrate donovan by claiming he's not a real coach. that's stupid. but i agree that this is precisely the reason both westbrook and george value him.

Pillendreher wrote:That kind of guy might be good for a bunch of teenagers, but we need somebody who is more than just the cool uncle who lets you eat icecream before dinner.


yeah. that's not happening.
CROklahoma
Junior
Posts: 416
And1: 115
Joined: Feb 22, 2017

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#183 » by CROklahoma » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:28 pm

I can read something happened between Donovan and Russ.
Dumbilly didnt attack Kanter with high pick and roll for 4 games constantly, forcing Adams to actually play up to Kanters best defensive side, post up defense.
In one game we won, Schroder exploited Kanter badly for 4 straight possesions with high p&r, and dumb Billy called timeout, RUSS WAS FURIOUS AT THE BENCH FOR SOME REASON. I guess reason was Russ wanted keep Dennis crushing Portland at a simple 2v2 play. Guess what happened after TO.

This is not on Russ, Donovan's gameplanning is disastrous throughout 2 straight years, rejecting us to even compete and get to a 7th game. And once again our face of the franchise keeps getting bullets from media and public. Is this Russ's fault ?

Scotty freaking Brooks managed to rest his stars before playoffs, and Billy milked Russ to death in last game, and forced George to play through an injury to keep his head beneath the surface. Good coaches dont do that stuff to the ones who shoulder the most burden.

This is a straight out fire of Donovan if we dont make a miracle. If he is on that bench in next season, its time to boycott that ****.
Its Prestis problem the eventual salary that will have to be paid to Billy for contract termination, he could have done a right move and not extend one of the most expensive contracts among coaches.
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#184 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:54 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:That kind of guy might be good for a bunch of teenagers, but we need somebody who is more than just the cool uncle who lets you eat icecream before dinner.


yeah. that's not happening.


Then why are we even bothering? If nobody bothers to hire people who are good at their job, sell the franchise to people who actually care more about results than public perception.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#185 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:02 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:That kind of guy might be good for a bunch of teenagers, but we need somebody who is more than just the cool uncle who lets you eat icecream before dinner.


yeah. that's not happening.


Then why are we even bothering? If nobody bothers to hire people who are good at their job, sell the franchise to people who actually care more about results than public perception.


the thunder have sacrificed 'results' for other things before. if the thunder have a choice between a coach who will make paul george and westbrook happy and a coach who may deliver better results but not make paul george and westbrook happy-- they're going to choose the former every time. just like the thunder refused to acquire certain kinds of players in the past based on some arbitrary sam presti culture imperative he's since tossed aside post-kd.

then there's something like steven adams' extension which really can only be justified by caring about the optics of securing him and oladipo on long term contracts in the kd aftermath.

this team has never gone 'all-in' towards winning a championship until it was too late, the last couple years, and i've been a vocal opposition to this approach. the hiring of billy donovan without interviewing anyone else was one of these things.
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#186 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:06 pm

sam presti's approach likely has a lot to do with paul george staying, so there's that.
User avatar
TGW
General Manager
Posts: 9,311
And1: 3,217
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#187 » by TGW » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:38 pm

No offense guys, but if you think Adams and Ferguson gets you Beal, you are highly delusional about the value of your players.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
RalphSampsonJr
Pro Prospect
Posts: 943
And1: 576
Joined: Jul 18, 2017
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#188 » by RalphSampsonJr » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:55 pm

TGW wrote:No offense guys, but if you think Adams and Ferguson gets you Beal, you are highly delusional about the value of your players.


Good input bro..
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 11,828
And1: 9,051
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#189 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 pm

Horne worded our problem much better than I could have done.

It’s an equation with no single answer. The Thunder has to have better habits, but Thunder general manager Sam Presti has to fortify the roster with shooters. The players currently on the roster have to perform, but the coaches have to devise any semblance of an offense. The player the offense is built around cannot deviate.


https://newsok.com/article/5629484/on-the-brink-of-elimination-thunder-still-fighting-old-issues-entering-game-5
RalphSampsonJr
Pro Prospect
Posts: 943
And1: 576
Joined: Jul 18, 2017
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#190 » by RalphSampsonJr » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:57 pm

If Sam has the balls to get rid of Billy who do we think would be a good replacement?

I wouldnt mind Dave joerger. He had the kings humming for a while there with not much to play with. Played at a high speed tempo that would be ideal for the thunder
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#191 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:58 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Horne worded our problem much better than I could have done.

It’s an equation with no single answer. The Thunder has to have better habits, but Thunder general manager Sam Presti has to fortify the roster with shooters. The players currently on the roster have to perform, but the coaches have to devise any semblance of an offense. The player the offense is built around cannot deviate.


https://newsok.com/article/5629484/on-the-brink-of-elimination-thunder-still-fighting-old-issues-entering-game-5


At least Presti's sustainability is still there - two extra homegames each postseason is nothing to scoff at.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#192 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:02 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:If Sam has the balls to get rid of Billy who do we think would be a good replacement?

I wouldnt mind Dave joerger. If had the kings humming for a while there with not much to play with. Played at a hugh speed tempo that would be ideal for the thunder


It would have to be somebody well respected, but who also knows his stuff and isn't just a Grüßaugust making millions upon millions. Vogel might be interesting because of the Paul George connection (but then again: Should that matter? We should be looking for quality, not personal preferences), but he isn't exactly known for good offensive teams. In his 7 years as an NBA head coach, his teams managed to be better than league offensively just once (the 11/12 Pacers were +2.1). Other than that, every single Vogel team has always been way below league average offensively.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#193 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:03 pm

erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#194 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:12 pm

slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.


You should take your treatment to the Attorney General.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 11,828
And1: 9,051
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#195 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:18 pm

slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.

Maybe with the Tramel situation the NewsOK team is going to quit bowing down to the thunder. Unlikely but I can hope.
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#196 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:19 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.

Maybe with the Tramel situation the NewsOK team is going to quit bowing down to the thunder. Unlikely but I can hope.


that would be epic.
Dadouv47
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,105
And1: 2,339
Joined: Mar 22, 2015
   

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#197 » by Dadouv47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:44 pm

TGW wrote:No offense guy[b]s[/b], but if you think Adams and Ferguson gets you Beal, you are highly delusional about the value of your players.


Why using the plural? I think only one person asked about the possibility of trading Adams and Ferguson for Beal
slick_watts
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,968
And1: 3,293
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#198 » by slick_watts » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.


You should take your treatment to the Attorney General.


i'll be vindicated in the years to come.
Dadouv47
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,105
And1: 2,339
Joined: Mar 22, 2015
   

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#199 » by Dadouv47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:51 pm

slick_watts wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.

Maybe with the Tramel situation the NewsOK team is going to quit bowing down to the thunder. Unlikely but I can hope.


that would be epic.


Let's not act like the reporters covering our team are good in any sense. They get paid to say good stuff about OKC and now most are on the bandwagon of repeating the easiest critics they can make. Waiting for them to say how bad Presti has been for the last years...
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 13,987
And1: 9,674
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: 2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread 

Post#200 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:03 pm

slick_watts wrote:erik horne is gonna get murked this summer. bruh i've been saying that about westbrook and inability to deviate and pigeon holing and got banned from boards and chats for it. good luck in your new city, horne.


To touch on this again: Saying

The player the offense is built around cannot deviate.


is simply untrue. Westbrook has of course changed his game and has changed it significantly this season. He's on pace to have the lowest USG% of his postseason career since 2010 and is also averaging way more assists than last season when he had the highest USG% in the league in the postseason (despite his teammates missing close to everything in the first two games). Contrary to what pundits say, this isn't Westbrook shooting the Thunder out of the series because of some feud with another player (funnily enough, Portland talks just as much ****, but lo and behold, they are suddenly the mature ones while the narrative of the childish Thunder gets driven down our throats). Yes, in game 4 he took some very questionable shots at the end of the 2nd quarter and two or three in the 2nd half, but other than that, he has had two great games (1 and 3) and two bad games (2 and 4). More often than not he has been setting up his teammates for good shots this series. His shooting performance overall leaves a lot to be desired, but I guess that has been the norm for him this season. Him attacking the paint less than he did last postseason against Gobert (!) even though he has nobody infront of him that can actually defend him is really hurting his overall performance. But then again: Is that Westbrook or Donovan? Who is responsible for gameplanning and adjustments?

And finally: What does deviate even mean in this context? No, you won't turn him into a completely different player. You can't do that with any guy in this league. They are who they are. What it comes to is: Can you get him to adapt a little bit more and put an offense and a roster around him that fits his strengths and his shortcomings? And since the Thunder haven't tried either, you simply can't call it on Westbrook's ability/willingness to change.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said

Return to Oklahoma City Thunder