2018–2019 OKC Thunder Playoffs General Thread

[RunOKC]

Its not a series until the home team loses a game. Hopefully Grant re-surfaces...

So if the home team never loses does it count as OKC missing the playoffs? They wouldn't have played in a playoff series, right?

Nope. It means we lost in the first round again.

[CROklahoma]

Just a treat to watch SAS playing stars free basketball and giving every player in a team a shot to be successful.
This era of our disgusting and movement locked basketball is coming to an end with a reason, so many years of flawed game plans are coming to bite us.

[Pillendreher]

It's insane what kind of performances San Antonio gets out of these random dudes. White dropping 30+ is like Ferguson beating Portland by himself. You don't need stars if your role players perform like them.

[JustOneFix]

It's insane what kind of performances San Antonio gets out of these random dudes. White dropping 30+ is like Ferguson beating Portland by himself. You don't need stars if your role players perform like them.

White's 5 times better player then Ferguson. No comparision whatsoever.

[Pillendreher]

Denver also can't lose the starters battle. The Spurs starters have been very meh in the regular season. This is game 3:

Spurs starters: 150.0 ORtG | 91.4 DRtG | +58.6 in 18 minutes
Denver starters: 90.9 ORtG | 154.5 DRtG | -63.6 NetRtG in 17 minutes

That's one big advantage Denver should have...

[CROklahoma]

It's insane what kind of performances San Antonio gets out of these random dudes. White dropping 30+ is like Ferguson beating Portland by himself. You don't need stars if your role players perform like them.

White's 5 times better player then Ferguson. No comparision whatsoever.

High school Ferguson for High School White was something like Curry compared to Beverly today.

This just shows you what kind of development do our youngsters actually have when given playing time constantly.
Corner camping and dirty jobs on the other end.

[Pillendreher]

It's insane what kind of performances San Antonio gets out of these random dudes. White dropping 30+ is like Ferguson beating Portland by himself. You don't need stars if your role players perform like them.

White's 5 times better player then Ferguson. No comparision whatsoever.

High school Ferguson for High School White was something like Curry compared to Beverly today.

This just shows you what kind of development do our youngsters actually have when given playing time constantly.

White has played 800 less NBA minutes than Ferguson their respective careers.

Corner camping and dirty jobs on the other end.

The Thunder don't seem to understand that you don't have to restrict guys to just being a non-factor in certain situations. Whereas the team should limit Grant's drives to the rim and get him to take even more shots from 3, they constrict Ferguson e.g. to this "You don't even touch the ball in any given possession" role. Players can't get better if they are not allowed to.

Per stats.nba.com, 133 players played at least 25 minutes per game/played at least 60 games this season. Out of those 133 guys, Ferguson is 133rd with 16 touches per game. Number 132 averaged 29 touches per game. He's also 133rd in time of possession at 0.4.
Since the NBA started tracking that stuff in 13/14, there have been a total of 812 seasons by players that matched the 25mpg/60gp criteria. Out of those 812 individual seasons, #811 in touches per game is MKG at 23 touches per game in 17/18. #811 in time of possession is Cunningham at 0.6 in 16/17, which means the way the Thunder used Ferguson this season offensively in that regard just set a new NBA record over a span of 6 seasons. Insanity.

[JustOneFix]

Ferguson can not be used in any other way becasue he's a really poor ballhandler. White knows how to dribble the ball. He can slash, he can take his man of the dribble, he knows how to play screens, pick and rolls or whatnot. Ferguson, on the other hand, can only score if it's a straight line, a free highway to the basket. Otherwise, he's powerless. His ball creativity is non existing.

[CROklahoma]

You don't really get it, do you ...

[JustOneFix]

You don't really get it, do you ...

There is really nothing to get it. When a guard is a poor ballhandler and not much of a shooter in the first place, he's useless.

[Old Man Game]

Let's be real: We are flawed, but so is every other franchise. It's not too much to ask to win a 1st round series. Or hell, to actually reach 50 wins for once. We're not playing the LeBron James Heat or the Michael Jordan Bulls each season in the first round of the Playoffs. Them underperforming their talent level is about the only sustainable thing about this team.

i'm surprised to see you use regular season wins as some benchmark of success. our expected w-l the last two seasons was 50 wins.

Expected performance should be raised as a banner this offseason. We were also expected to win a title over the last decade.

and obviously you're overrating our talent level. we have one really great player at the moment and he's probably hurt. losing in the 1st round w/o hca isn't underperforming no matter what the pundits say. the condition of our roster, the mysterious dropoff defensively, the roberson / abrines situations and russell westbrook decline are what is pertinent imo. losing to the blazers isn't a big deal considering where the team was heading into the postseason.

I'm not overrating anything, I'm simply not partaking in this weird ritual of certain parts of the Thunder fanbase and the haters faction that every disappointing performance gets justified by proclaiming that every player sucks after the fact. There is more than enough talent on this roster to win, especially since we're not playing world beaters. But since our Front Office ignores certain obvious holes in the roster and since our coaching staff has no idea how to play to our strengths and hide our weaknesses, we get treated to this turd every year.

You've definitely hit on something there. The whole, 'the entire roster sucks' thing is never brought up other than when we're losing. When we won like 8 of 10 or whatever it was in the early part of the season, no one I can recall was saying, 'look at those wins, all while the entire roster sucks.' Instead it's a an excuse that people back into after the fact to defend Billdoh from criticism after losses.

[slick_watts]

i'm surprised to see you use regular season wins as some benchmark of success. our expected w-l the last two seasons was 50 wins.

Expected performance should be raised as a banner this offseason. We were also expected to win a title over the last decade.

and obviously you're overrating our talent level. we have one really great player at the moment and he's probably hurt. losing in the 1st round w/o hca isn't underperforming no matter what the pundits say. the condition of our roster, the mysterious dropoff defensively, the roberson / abrines situations and russell westbrook decline are what is pertinent imo. losing to the blazers isn't a big deal considering where the team was heading into the postseason.

I'm not overrating anything, I'm simply not partaking in this weird ritual of certain parts of the Thunder fanbase and the haters faction that every disappointing performance gets justified by proclaiming that every player sucks after the fact. There is more than enough talent on this roster to win, especially since we're not playing world beaters. But since our Front Office ignores certain obvious holes in the roster and since our coaching staff has no idea how to play to our strengths and hide our weaknesses, we get treated to this turd every year.

You've definitely hit on something there. The whole, 'the entire roster sucks' thing is never brought up other than when we're losing. When we won like 8 of 10 or whatever it was in the early part of the season, no one I can recall was saying, 'look at those wins, all while the entire roster sucks.' Instead it's a an excuse that people back into after the fact to defend Billdoh from criticism after losses.

what are we complaining about? the casual reporting on the team? or actual reality? because actual reality is that the roster does suck, and it has gotten worse over the last 4-5 seasons. winning 8 of 10 doesn't mean anything really out of context. i recall there being a vocal caveat on the early season winning being the weak strength of schedule, actually. royce or other thunder-centric national or local reporters won't say that, but do you really expect them to at this point? casual fans won't say it, because wins and seeding are all that matters, right?

take an honest look at this roster and make an accounting of it relative to other playoff teams and see where that gets you. after paul george, who may be hurt right now by the way, what do we have? not a whole lot.

the team can't shoot. what is "Billdoh" supposed to do about that with the current roster? how does he manage westbrook's decline this season? nobody's making excuses for billy donovan this is just simply acknowledging the reality of the condition of the thunder roster.

[slick_watts]

It's insane what kind of performances San Antonio gets out of these random dudes. White dropping 30+ is like Ferguson beating Portland by himself. You don't need stars if your role players perform like them.

they are definitely not random dudes. the spurs selection process is a lot different from the thunder's and it shows. recall troy weaver's statements re: selecting for physical profile and worrying about teaching skills later. that's why we don't get derrick whites or davis bertans on our team.

[Pillendreher]

i'm surprised to see you use regular season wins as some benchmark of success. our expected w-l the last two seasons was 50 wins.

Expected performance should be raised as a banner this offseason. We were also expected to win a title over the last decade.

and obviously you're overrating our talent level. we have one really great player at the moment and he's probably hurt. losing in the 1st round w/o hca isn't underperforming no matter what the pundits say. the condition of our roster, the mysterious dropoff defensively, the roberson / abrines situations and russell westbrook decline are what is pertinent imo. losing to the blazers isn't a big deal considering where the team was heading into the postseason.

I'm not overrating anything, I'm simply not partaking in this weird ritual of certain parts of the Thunder fanbase and the haters faction that every disappointing performance gets justified by proclaiming that every player sucks after the fact. There is more than enough talent on this roster to win, especially since we're not playing world beaters. But since our Front Office ignores certain obvious holes in the roster and since our coaching staff has no idea how to play to our strengths and hide our weaknesses, we get treated to this turd every year.

You've definitely hit on something there. The whole, 'the entire roster sucks' thing is never brought up other than when we're losing. When we won like 8 of 10 or whatever it was in the early part of the season, no one I can recall was saying, 'look at those wins, all while the entire roster sucks.' Instead it's a an excuse that people back into after the fact to defend Billdoh from criticism after losses.

I think for most people it's just a sort of defense mechanism. Some way to justify the failure after failure.

BTW: I still think Presti needs to be replaced, but that doesn't mean we can't expect the franchise to get the most out of its players, which is simply not the case.

[slick_watts]

I think for most people it's just a sort of defense mechanism. Some way to justify the failure after failure.

justify? are you daft? the roster degradation the thunder have endured for years now is a biting criticism of the organization.

BTW: I still think Presti needs to be replaced, but that doesn't mean we can't expect the franchise to get the most out of its players, which is simply not the case.

what's your evidence for this? not that i disagree.

[Dadouv47]

I blame Ferguson and not the Thunder for being mentally so weak. I was so low on him last year but he improved a lot this year from a basketball perspective (he's not a great player obviously) and Russ/PG helped him a lot to feel confident about himself but he's just too weak. Can blame the Thunder to give such an important role though because the probability of him being irrelevant comes playoff time was very high.

Grant is another guy that had a career year but looks scared as hell. When it comes to Grant we can't say the Thunder did a bad job at developing him (he improved his defense, found a 3 pt shoot, became a 70% free throw shooter and was able to make some crazy 2's). Somehow he isn't able to perform during the playoffs. Must be a combination of bad coaching / game plan / struggling mentally and whatever.

[hardenASG13]

I blame Ferguson and not the Thunder for being mentally so weak. I was so low on him last year but he improved a lot this year from a basketball perspective (he's not a great player obviously) and Russ/PG helped him a lot to feel confident about himself but he's just too weak. Can blame the Thunder to give such an important role though because the probability of him being irrelevant comes playoff time was very high.

Grant is another guy that had a career year but looks scared as hell. When it comes to Grant we can't say the Thunder did a bad job at developing him (he improved his defense, found a 3 pt shoot, became a 70% free throw shooter and was able to make some crazy 2's). Somehow he isn't able to perform during the playoffs. Must be a combination of bad coaching / game plan / struggling mentally and whatever.

Agree re: Ferguson. Like Roberson before him, it's a travesty he plays so many minutes, with no ability to create much of any offense, for himself or others. That's the problem in playing non shooters (I guess Ferguson is considered a shooter, purely because he does nothing else), next to Russell Westbrook who isn't a good shooter, and Steven adams, who's range is 10 feet and who creates nothing for others as well. It's a joke what they've done at sg all these years. The NBA clearly shifted to shooters, about 5 years ago.

Re: grant. Role players generally play better at home in the playoffs. He had a great season. He's getting harder looks with Westbrook struggling so much shooting and PG not being himself. It's been 2 road games, against a team who is great at home. I know many want to write him off after denouncing him as a player/prospect since day 1, but settle down and give him a chance at home. This is his first time in such a big role in the playoffs. It matters. Look at denver. If okc can pull this series out the will be hosting the conference semis!

[Dadouv47]

I blame Ferguson and not the Thunder for being mentally so weak. I was so low on him last year but he improved a lot this year from a basketball perspective (he's not a great player obviously) and Russ/PG helped him a lot to feel confident about himself but he's just too weak. Can blame the Thunder to give such an important role though because the probability of him being irrelevant comes playoff time was very high.

Grant is another guy that had a career year but looks scared as hell. When it comes to Grant we can't say the Thunder did a bad job at developing him (he improved his defense, found a 3 pt shoot, became a 70% free throw shooter and was able to make some crazy 2's). Somehow he isn't able to perform during the playoffs. Must be a combination of bad coaching / game plan / struggling mentally and whatever.

Agree re: Ferguson. Like Roberson before him, it's a travesty he plays so many minutes, with no ability to create much of any offense, for himself or others. That's the problem in playing non shooters (I guess Ferguson is considered a shooter, purely because he does nothing else), next to Russell Westbrook who isn't a good shooter, and Steven adams, who's range is 10 feet and who creates nothing for others as well. It's a joke what they've done at sg all these years. The NBA clearly shifted to shooters, about 5 years ago.

Re: grant. Role players generally play better at home in the playoffs. He had a great season. He's getting harder looks with Westbrook struggling so much shooting and PG not being himself. It's been 2 road games, against a team who is great at home. I know many want to write him off after denouncing him as a player/prospect since day 1, but settle down and give him a chance at home. This is his first time in such a big role in the playoffs. It matters. Look at denver. If okc can pull this series out the will be hosting the conference semis!

Well Roberson is an elite defender and despite the fact that he can't shoot, he still get some points by transition offense/driving to the basket.

Maybe it's unfair to be so hard on Grant. Problem is that we don't have enough depth and we need him to score. Hope he can be better at home (probably so) but he will need to be effective on the road as well if somehow we are able to tie the series (or we will need to give more minutes to Morris)

[slick_watts]

Well Roberson is an elite defender and despite the fact that he can't shoot, he still get some points by transition offense/driving to the basket.

'dre did a lot of things on offense. he was a good screen setter. remember blasting the warriors with that in the conference finals? or his back screens on centers that routinely freed up adams? he's a decent passer, better than ferguson. he's great in transition. and he had 7.8% orb in 2017-18 which was #1 by a mile ahead of dejounte murray among guards that season.

he is by no means a net positive offensively. but he's better offensively than terrance ferguson, probably. it's strange that hardenASG13 is using our struggles in andre roberson's absence as a means to highlight his perceived weaknesses. erm.. that's not how that works, bro.

[hardenASG13]

Well Roberson is an elite defender and despite the fact that he can't shoot, he still get some points by transition offense/driving to the basket.

'dre did a lot of things on offense. he was a good screen setter. remember blasting the warriors with that in the conference finals? or his back screens on centers that routinely freed up adams? he's a decent passer, better than ferguson. he's great in transition. and he had 7.8% orb in 2017-18 which was #1 by a mile ahead of dejounte murray among guards that season.

he is by no means a net positive offensively. but he's better offensively than terrance ferguson, probably. it's strange that hardenASG13 is using our struggles in andre roberson's absence as a means to highlight his perceived weaknesses. erm.. that's not how that works, bro.

Neither Roberson or Ferguson deserve heavy minutes at sg on a good team is my point. It has been an ongoing weakness of okc since the thabo days, they are convinced they don't need shooting and creators on the wing, limiting their ceiling and blowing a potential dynasty. Such a hindrance for this team to generally be the only one employing a sg who gives nothing offensively for the minutes they play, and watching other teams all have guys who knock down open looks at the position.

That said, I still think they win this series and host the spurs next round. As I mentioned to everyone portraying denver as some powerhouse, the whole half of the bracket is a coinflip. Roberson is better than Ferguson, but Ferguson arguably is not a rotation caliber player on a playoff team, let alone a starter. Do you think he is?