Thunder Offseason Thread

[Kizz Fastfists]

Wiggins is a much better shooter than Russ.

You sure about that?

Westbrook just had his worst shooting season by far and Wiggins still manages to be right there with him when it comes to making shots not at the rim.

Also kudos on having that special ability to be able to turn this into a pro Donovan argument when you've been calling for his head even more openly than me for years.

Being a better shooter than Russ does not mean one a good shooter. Russ is the WORST volume shooter in the league and you can make the very strong argument for worst in NBA history. I'm not arguing for Donovan. I'm accepting that Presti is too stupid to fire Donovan and ownership is too stupid to fire Presti. Therefore given you are stuck with the Presti/Donovan combo you have to do things that can make up for the mass stupidity they bring to the table.

[acheema0]

First of all, no Wiggins is in no way a much better shooter than Russ. That's just a flat out lie. He's just as bad, without being any good at the rim. He's also a much much much much worse ball handler and passer who doesn't have the ability to create good looks for his teammates either. Like this isn't even an argument, Andrew Wiggins is a much worse offensive player than Russell Westbrook.

I really was hopeful you would go there for me. Wiggins in his worst season at the rim shot 62% and his career his 65%. Russ in his best season at the rim was 65% and his career is 59%. Wiggins is a career 33% shooter from 3 and 34% over the last three years. Russ is 30% from 3 for his career and his best year was 34%.


Just because you are unaware that Wiggins is a better finisher at the rim and shooter doesn't mean he isn't one. He makes their shots the most is the better shooter. Wiggins isn't a PG so his ball handling and creating shouldn't be on par with Russ. OKC has a guy named Schroder that can replace Russ' ball handing and passing in the starting lineup and they could get a tax-MLE backup PG or get Teague with Wiggins and then start Teague for a potentially very good starting 5 from a shooting stand point. Teague, Ferguson, PG, Grant and Adams would have 4 guys that could all realistically hit 35%+ from 3. .

Yeah. You said Wiggins was a "much better shooter" than Russ. You're still wrong. These are differences of 3-4 percentage points. You think NBA defenders are going to guard Wiggins much tighter than Russ because he shoots 3% higher from 3? No. That's not how any of that works. You saw the chart Pillendreher posted. Wiggins is BARELY better than Russ at shooting. They're both non-shooters as far as any opposing team is concerned. The difference is Russ has a much higher overall offensive impact, go look at any advanced metric for such it'll show you.

And lol. You think Dennis Schroder would be able to replace Russell Westbrook adequately? That isn't even worth acknowledging. And what's all this about 35% from 3? 35% from 3 isn't some magical number where your offense becomes one of the best in the league if your players reach that mark. Jerami Grant and Terrance Ferguson both shot higher than that from 3 this season. Didn't stop Portland from leaving them wide open in the playoffs.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Jerami Grant and Terrance Ferguson both shot higher than that from 3 this season. Didn't stop Portland from leaving them wide open in the playoffs.

That is because they know how stupid Russ is when it comes to the game of basketball. They knew Russ would take 20+ shots a game and not pass to the open shooters. Teams don't leave OKC's shooters open because they expect them to miss they leave them open because they know they won't get the touches to hurt them. Grant shot 45% from 3 in the series and Ferguson shot 39%, but Russ kept jacking up stupid shots instead of giving them the chance to get OKC out of the first round.

Why would a PG not be getting the ball to their open shooters who are hitting 40% from 3? Is it because they don't want to win? Is it because they too stupid to understand how to win? Is it because they care about their numbers more than winning?

[ThunderBolt]

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[oreojenkins]

Wonder if #21 this year, 2024 1st, 2026 1st (both lightly protected, maybe top-3), Diallo, Schroder, salary filler would be enough for Beal. They're DOA until Wall is gone. Thunder picks post-RW/PG could be pretty valuable. Would probably be hard to sell tickets in the short term, however. Would have to make the pick and wait until after the draft to complete, I get that. Probably too tough of a sell for the fans, but would definitely be better IMO for their long-term future.

[Pillendreher]

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This could be an opportunity to hire capable people. Somebody who knows that being on the level of the Atlanta Hawks offensively for 62 of the 82 games (ie the non-shooting stretch) with Paul George playing like an MVP most of the time is not good enough. Or somebody who understands that Adams dying every season come January is not a viable strategy.

[Balkman32]

Wonder if #21 this year, 2024 1st, 2026 1st (both lightly protected, maybe top-3), Diallo, Schroder, salary filler would be enough for Beal. They're DOA until Wall is gone. Thunder picks post-RW/PG could be pretty valuable. Would probably be hard to sell tickets in the short term, however. Would have to make the pick and wait until after the draft to complete, I get that. Probably too tough of a sell for the fans, but would definitely be better IMO for their long-term future.

I am assuming that Patterson is the salary filler. Beal is still so young. He will be 26 at the start of next season. The picks couldn't be protected, if I am the Wiz. I just think that there will be a better deal out there for the Zards.

Beal is a guy you can build around. If I am the Wizards I might make you take on Wall in any Beal deal, because that clears the books. The Wiz are not usually a team that breaks it down to build it back up. A smart GM would build around Beal, a smarter one would use Beal to get off of Wall and his 4 years $170 million deal that starts next year, as he might miss the entire season with the ruptured Achilles he had in February.

I think Adams would make sense for the Wizards if they were to deal Beal.

[hardenASG13]

Wonder if #21 this year, 2024 1st, 2026 1st (both lightly protected, maybe top-3), Diallo, Schroder, salary filler would be enough for Beal. They're DOA until Wall is gone. Thunder picks post-RW/PG could be pretty valuable. Would probably be hard to sell tickets in the short term, however. Would have to make the pick and wait until after the draft to complete, I get that. Probably too tough of a sell for the fans, but would definitely be better IMO for their long-term future.

I am assuming that Patterson is the salary filler. Beal is still so young. He will be 26 at the start of next season. The picks couldn't be protected, if I am the Wiz. I just think that there will be a better deal out there for the Zards.

Beal is a guy you can build around. If I am the Wizards I might make you take on Wall in any Beal deal, because that clears the books. The Wiz are not usually a team that breaks it down to build it back up. A smart GM would build around Beal, a smarter one would use Beal to get off of Wall and his 4 years $170 million deal that starts next year, as he might miss the entire season with the ruptured Achilles he had in February.


I think Adams would make sense for the Wizards if they were to deal Beal.

Yea that might be a tough to sell to their fan base, trading their best player for draft picks 5 and 7 years away.

Also, Adams with his contract has almost no value leaguewide. Slow footed centers who can’t handle the ball, shoot a face up or spot up jumper, who have limited post moves , don’t demand a double, and are non factors blocking shots aren’t exactly in high demand. Guys like that were played off the floor in essentially every playoff series. I think he’d struggle to get 4/50 if he were a free agent. Who’s giving major minutes to a center like him currently?

[Kizz Fastfists]

Wonder if #21 this year, 2024 1st, 2026 1st (both lightly protected, maybe top-3), Diallo, Schroder, salary filler would be enough for Beal. They're DOA until Wall is gone. Thunder picks post-RW/PG could be pretty valuable. Would probably be hard to sell tickets in the short term, however. Would have to make the pick and wait until after the draft to complete, I get that. Probably too tough of a sell for the fans, but would definitely be better IMO for their long-term future.

Unprotected 2024 and 2026 might interest Washington. Especially if they believe Beal and PG would walk in FA. More likely it would take 2022, if the pick is in the lottery, plus 2024 and 2026 unprotected. OKC would probably be giving three top 5 picks in that scenario. PG and Beak would be gone after '20-'21 and Russ would be so bad at that point he'd just be a tank commander for a bottom 5 team. Washington would have a nice war chest for their rebuild. OKC probably gets another pair of 1st round exits.

Schroder, Ferguson, Diallo, Patterson and the 3 future 1st round picks. If Washington is willing to trade Washington and is looking at a long game that might be enough. If they are looking for something faster then that isn't going to be competitive with LAL, NYK and Phoenix potentially throwing #3, #4 and #6 as the starting point in talks.

[kdthunderup]

I have seen the idea of trading Schroder for Hardaway Jr floating around. What's everyone's thoughts on this? I'm not that high on Hardaway. He is a similar to Schroder in the sense that he isn't very efficient and doesn't defend at a high level. I do think naturally he is a better fit for this roster as a SG. His best season also was as a 3rd option on the 16-17 Hawks team where he put up half decent stats on not terrible efficiency.

Only issue is that his salary is $4 million more than Schroder which would put is deeper into the tax and give us even less cap flexibility.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Why would Dallas do it? Hardaway fits much better for them than Schroder would. Hardaway is much more efficient and would be a much better fit for OKC. I just don't see Dallas wanting Schroder. Dallas will be looking to land Kemba or Kyrie and then if that misses they'll be looking to push as much cap space as possible down the line. I imagine if they need to they would just trade Hardaway next off-season into space and that is assuming he doesn't opt out. I think Dallas would rather have someone like Rondo or Elf next to Luka on the MLE than Schroder if they miss on other targets.

[ThunderBolt]

Why would Dallas do it? Hardaway fits much better for them than Schroder would. Hardaway is much more efficient and would be a much better fit for OKC. I just don't see Dallas wanting Schroder. Dallas will be looking to land Kemba or Kyrie and then if that misses they'll be looking to push as much cap space as possible down the line. I imagine if they need to they would just trade Hardaway next off-season into space and that is assuming he doesn't opt out. I think Dallas would rather have someone like Rondo or Elf next to Luka on the MLE than Schroder if they miss on other targets.

I don’t think Dallas wants schroder but I think they would take him over rondo. That didn’t end too well last time.

[kdthunderup]

Why would Dallas do it? Hardaway fits much better for them than Schroder would. Hardaway is much more efficient and would be a much better fit for OKC. I just don't see Dallas wanting Schroder. Dallas will be looking to land Kemba or Kyrie and then if that misses they'll be looking to push as much cap space as possible down the line. I imagine if they need to they would just trade Hardaway next off-season into space and that is assuming he doesn't opt out. I think Dallas would rather have someone like Rondo or Elf next to Luka on the MLE than Schroder if they miss on other targets.

Schroder is most definitely a better fit for Dallas who have no one to fill the PG role next season. Hardaway has voiced his displeasure with the team so I'm sure Dallas will be listening to most offers.

No need to think too logically about trades. It's not outside the realm of being possible. No one ever thought we would get Paul George with just Oladipo and Sabonis.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Luka is basically their PG. Haraway is essentially an expiring for them. Unless they add a max contract to go with Porzingis and Luka they won't consider taking the 2nd year of Schroder.

[kdthunderup]

Luka is basically their PG. Haraway is essentially an expiring for them. Unless they add a max contract to go with Porzingis and Luka they won't consider taking the 2nd year of Schroder.

I don't see Hardaway declining his player option. Luke is a great playmaker but it doesn't hurt to have a secondary playmaker that can take pressure off Luka. Hathaway needs to come off the bench for them whilst Schroeder can plug in and start.

[slick_watts]

mark bryant going to phoenix leaves sam presti and russell westbrook as the last seattle supersonics. who will be the very last? that would be an interesting line.

[Pillendreher]

mark bryant going to phoenix leaves sam presti and russell westbrook as the last seattle supersonics. who will be the very last? that would be an interesting line.

Sam Presti will still be running things by the time we tell our grandchildren about Dion Waiters pushing off against Manu Ginobili.

[kdthunderup]

What's everyone thoughts on potentially getting Adams to start shooting some 3's this season? I feel as if the Thunder have been prepping for it the past couple of seasons as we have seen him take a lot of jumpshots at practise.

I know everyone will jump and say look at his free throw % but there have been many decent 3 point shooters with poor free throw shooting. He also has demonstrated a decent shooting stroke in practise. It isn't broken like Roberson's. I'm just trying to think of ways we can retool the offense and make it more modern and help provide more spacing and options for Russ and PG. I don't think it would do any harm to the offense if you gave two of Russ's 3pa to Adams. It's unlikely we have the assets to make any groundbreaking moves.

[Kizz Fastfists]

What's everyone thoughts on potentially getting Adams to start shooting some 3's this season? I feel as if the Thunder have been prepping for it the past couple of seasons as we have seen him take a lot of jumpshots at practise.

I know everyone will jump and say look at his free throw % but there have been many decent 3 point shooters with poor free throw shooting.

It was either a bad joke and admission of basketball mental retardation. Give up offensive rebounding , P&R options, etc just to have Adams stand in the corner. It is something that would only come from the mind of someone so stupid that should not be allowed to touch a basketball. If OKC were going to run motion that would get Adams into catch and shoot 3pt opportunities where he had established he could shoot at enough, 50%+, rate in practice to think he could carry 35%+ into games then I'd think it was worth trying. I don't see OKC running an offense with the movement needed for it to do anything but hurt by taking their rebounding out of the paint.

Please name 10 players that are decent, 35%+, from 3 while being poor, sub 60%, from the FT line.

[kdthunderup]

What's everyone thoughts on potentially getting Adams to start shooting some 3's this season? I feel as if the Thunder have been prepping for it the past couple of seasons as we have seen him take a lot of jumpshots at practise.

I know everyone will jump and say look at his free throw % but there have been many decent 3 point shooters with poor free throw shooting.

It was either a bad joke and admission of basketball mental retardation. Give up offensive rebounding , P&R options, etc just to have Adams stand in the corner. It is something that would only come from the mind of someone so stupid that should not be allowed to touch a basketball. If OKC were going to run motion that would get Adams into catch and shoot 3pt opportunities where he had established he could shoot at enough, 50%+, rate in practice to think he could carry 35%+ into games then I'd think it was worth trying. I don't see OKC running an offense with the movement needed for it to do anything but hurt by taking their rebounding out of the paint.

Please name 10 players that are decent, 35%+, from 3 while being poor, sub 60%, from the FT line.

Who said Adams would just stand in the corner? If Adams can pop out on the PnR it will give the Thunder more options rather than less as your suggesting. I don't want to completely remove Adams from the paint, they can use him on the perimeter on certain sets that would help provide spacing. Adams himself said he will only start shooting threes once the team is at a point where they would benefit from it. We have seen how much it had helped Giannis with Lopez on the team, it will enable Russ to drive to the rim with more spacing.

It's very rare in the modern NBA to have a top tier offense if your point guard and centre can't shoot.