Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild

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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#461 » by Pillendreher » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:55 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If Adams isn't part of Presti's long term plan maybe we look at drafting a center. Especially if our pick isn't great because we win too many games or get hosed in the lottery. Really good centers can be found with later picks. That option might be our best value for we are outside the top 5.


I think centers are useless in today NBA unless they are dominate. The Thunder should be looking for Wings, Wings, & more Wings.

Anthony Edwards (Georgia), RJ Hampton (Australia) & Deni Avdija (Maccabi Tel Aviv) are guys on the short list.


I think we've reached a point were centers are almost comically devalued. Perhaps the traditional center like Adams is antiquated but the position itself still has value. The amount of teams playing small ball has always been overstated. There aren't a ton of teams that can do what the warriors were able to do with small ball and curry is 31 years old now. I don't think it will last forever. I wouldn't mind a big that's more versatile than Adams.


Hell, if anything I'd say that the Center position has become quite competitive. Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Ayton. Then you get guys like Gobert, Allen or Turner. Just getting by with some complete scrub is a thing of the past imo.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#462 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:08 pm

injury risk is higher with Centers though (also a bit longer to develop them, even if now we have some great young centers in the NBA). Would prefer to build around other positions and trade some future assets for a big.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#463 » by slick_watts » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:28 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
I think centers are useless in today NBA unless they are dominate. The Thunder should be looking for Wings, Wings, & more Wings.

Anthony Edwards (Georgia), RJ Hampton (Australia) & Deni Avdija (Maccabi Tel Aviv) are guys on the short list.


I think we've reached a point were centers are almost comically devalued. Perhaps the traditional center like Adams is antiquated but the position itself still has value. The amount of teams playing small ball has always been overstated. There aren't a ton of teams that can do what the warriors were able to do with small ball and curry is 31 years old now. I don't think it will last forever. I wouldn't mind a big that's more versatile than Adams.


Hell, if anything I'd say that the Center position has become quite competitive. Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Ayton. Then you get guys like Gobert, Allen or Turner. Just getting by with some complete scrub is a thing of the past imo.


marc gasol was a key addition for the raptors. do they win the title without that trade?

the job description of a center is for sure changing though.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#464 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:12 pm

If Adams doesn't improve this year, especially playing with CP3 then I'm ready to move on. If he does play well, it would be nice if it could last more than 20 games.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#465 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:50 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:If Adams doesn't improve this year, especially playing with CP3 then I'm ready to move on. If he does play well, it would be nice if it could last more than 20 games.


He was our best thunder player last season before MVPG showed up. But yeah as always it didn't last. I think Adams already reached his ceiling, the question is exactly if he can play at a high level during all season or not. He can beat Gobert and then get owned by Kanter 2 months after that... :-? :banghead:
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#466 » by thor19 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:13 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If Adams doesn't improve this year, especially playing with CP3 then I'm ready to move on. If he does play well, it would be nice if it could last more than 20 games.


He was our best thunder player last season before MVPG showed up. But yeah as always it didn't last. I think Adams already reached his ceiling, the question is exactly if he can play at a high level during all season or not. He can beat Gobert and then get owned by Kanter 2 months after that... :-? :banghead:

I think Adams will improved this year with cp3 and SGA play the pointguard , also the rebounds will get higher
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#467 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:18 pm

thor19 wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If Adams doesn't improve this year, especially playing with CP3 then I'm ready to move on. If he does play well, it would be nice if it could last more than 20 games.


He was our best thunder player last season before MVPG showed up. But yeah as always it didn't last. I think Adams already reached his ceiling, the question is exactly if he can play at a high level during all season or not. He can beat Gobert and then get owned by Kanter 2 months after that... :-? :banghead:

I think Adams will improved this year with cp3 and SGA play the pointguard , also the rebounds will get higher


If he gets more rebounds with CP3 than Westbrook, it doesn't change anything.

Just want him to play well on a consistent basis and if he can improve his jump shot it would be crazy good.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#468 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:23 pm

If I have to pick 2 players on our current roster to compete in 2023+ it would be SGA and Adams by a wild margin (hope Bazley turns into a great player, Diallo finds a shot or I'm totally wrong about Ferguson but right now that's my position).
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#469 » by thor19 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:If I have to pick 2 players on our current roster to compete in 2023+ it would be SGA and Adams by a wild margin (hope Bazley turns into a great player, Diallo finds a shot or I'm totally wrong about Ferguson but right now that's my position).

I think adams will be a 15 to 17 points and 13-15 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1.8 ast guy in some games he will get to the 20 points
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#470 » by spearsy23 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:33 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
I think centers are useless in today NBA unless they are dominate. The Thunder should be looking for Wings, Wings, & more Wings.

Anthony Edwards (Georgia), RJ Hampton (Australia) & Deni Avdija (Maccabi Tel Aviv) are guys on the short list.


I think we've reached a point were centers are almost comically devalued. Perhaps the traditional center like Adams is antiquated but the position itself still has value. The amount of teams playing small ball has always been overstated. There aren't a ton of teams that can do what the warriors were able to do with small ball and curry is 31 years old now. I don't think it will last forever. I wouldn't mind a big that's more versatile than Adams.


Hell, if anything I'd say that the Center position has become quite competitive. Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Ayton. Then you get guys like Gobert, Allen or Turner. Just getting by with some complete scrub is a thing of the past imo.

That's seven guys. If you have a really good one then that's great, but you still don't need much at the position
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#471 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:49 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
I think we've reached a point were centers are almost comically devalued. Perhaps the traditional center like Adams is antiquated but the position itself still has value. The amount of teams playing small ball has always been overstated. There aren't a ton of teams that can do what the warriors were able to do with small ball and curry is 31 years old now. I don't think it will last forever. I wouldn't mind a big that's more versatile than Adams.


Hell, if anything I'd say that the Center position has become quite competitive. Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Ayton. Then you get guys like Gobert, Allen or Turner. Just getting by with some complete scrub is a thing of the past imo.

That's seven guys. If you have a really good one then that's great, but you still don't need much at the position

That list is far from exhaustive. Anthony Davis typically plays around half of his minutes at center and that spiked last year. Horford, LMA, Capela and Vucevic can all be added to the list. Mitchell Robinson and Adebayo are young guys with a lot of promise. Steven Adams might be overpaid but if you start a scrub you'll get exploited.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#472 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:17 pm

It depends on how you look at it. Can you get by with any good center like Adams? Yes. Can you get by with Tyler Zeller and Jahlil Okafer? No. Is Adams overpaid? Yes. Can you get by with MLE centers? Yes. You still have to have a quality center. Not just any scrub off the street.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#473 » by thor19 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:28 pm

I thinks this year is a tryout to see what we need in the draft, we can draft a pg like rj hampton or nico and have two playmakers, we can draft a center to replace adams, we can draft wings if bazley, ferguson or diallo dont take the next step or get a pf
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#474 » by spearsy23 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:46 am

[quote="ThunderBolt"][quote="spearsy23"][quote="Pillendreher"]

Hell, if anything I'd say that the Center position has become quite competitive. Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Ayton. Then you get guys like Gobert, Allen or Turner. Just getting by with some complete scrub is a thing of the past imo.[/quote]
That's seven guys. If you have a really good one then that's great, but you still don't need much at the position[/quote]
That list is far from exhaustive. Anthony Davis typically plays around half of his minutes at center and that spiked last year. Horford, LMA, Capela and Vucevic can all be added to the list. Mitchell Robinson and Adebayo are young guys with a lot of promise. Steven Adams might be overpaid but if you start a scrub you'll get exploited.[/quote]
... You're now just naming guys who play the position. Obviously it's better to have a good player at any position than a bad one, but of that entire list Horford, Jokic, and Embiid are the only ones who have proven to be any type of building blocks on good teams.

34 year old Marc gasol
Javale McGee
Tristan Thompson
Andrew bogut
Tiago Splitter

That's the last five starting centers to win championships. They aren't necessary.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#475 » by jake_swivel » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:09 am

thor19 wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:If I have to pick 2 players on our current roster to compete in 2023+ it would be SGA and Adams by a wild margin (hope Bazley turns into a great player, Diallo finds a shot or I'm totally wrong about Ferguson but right now that's my position).

I think adams will be a 15 to 17 points and 13-15 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1.8 ast guy in some games he will get to the 20 points


I have a hard time being impartial about Adams because I want him to be my best friend, but he isn't getting anywhere close to 15 boards. If he's at 15.5 points and 11.5 boards shooting 60% from the field and 63% from the line, I'd be super happy with him.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#476 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:11 am

spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:That's seven guys. If you have a really good one then that's great, but you still don't need much at the position

That list is far from exhaustive. Anthony Davis typically plays around half of his minutes at center and that spiked last year. Horford, LMA, Capela and Vucevic can all be added to the list. Mitchell Robinson and Adebayo are young guys with a lot of promise. Steven Adams might be overpaid but if you start a scrub you'll get exploited.

... You're now just naming guys who play the position. Obviously it's better to have a good player at any position than a bad one, but of that entire list Horford, Jokic, and Embiid are the only ones who have proven to be any type of building blocks on good teams.

34 year old Marc gasol
Javale McGee
Tristan Thompson
Andrew bogut
Tiago Splitter


That's the last five starting centers to win championships. They aren't necessary.


I agree. If we can draft the next generational talent like Lebron or have the best shooting backcourt in nba history we can probably get by without a quality center. And splitter, really? If we’re going to ignore Tim Duncan then at least give Boris Diaw credit.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#477 » by thor19 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:47 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:That list is far from exhaustive. Anthony Davis typically plays around half of his minutes at center and that spiked last year. Horford, LMA, Capela and Vucevic can all be added to the list. Mitchell Robinson and Adebayo are young guys with a lot of promise. Steven Adams might be overpaid but if you start a scrub you'll get exploited.

... You're now just naming guys who play the position. Obviously it's better to have a good player at any position than a bad one, but of that entire list Horford, Jokic, and Embiid are the only ones who have proven to be any type of building blocks on good teams.

34 year old Marc gasol
Javale McGee
Tristan Thompson
Andrew bogut
Tiago Splitter


That's the last five starting centers to win championships. They aren't necessary.


I agree. If we can draft the next generational talent like Lebron or have the best shooting backcourt in nba history we can probably get by without a quality center. And splitter, really? If we’re going to ignore Tim Duncan then at least give Boris Diaw credit.

I think if we are drafting the next A Davis, shaq , jokic ok but I think the center position is not our focus , we need guards and wings (ferguson, diallo, bazley ) we can have better wings and guards
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#478 » by Kizz Fastfists » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:17 am

thor19 wrote:I think if we are drafting the next A Davis, shaq , jokic ok but I think the center position is not our focus , we need guards and wings (ferguson, diallo, bazley ) we can have better wings and guards



Assuming Wiseman shows that he the clear #1 player as he is being considered right now you take the center. You draft BPA. You don't worry about position at this point of a rebuild. You have a PG in SGA that can play off the ball and guard 1-3 so if BPA is a PG you take them and you can make that work. I like Jaden McDaniels a lot at this point. If Tre Jones doesn't develop a shot I can see Presti taking him with Denver's pick.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#479 » by thor19 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:47 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
thor19 wrote:I think if we are drafting the next A Davis, shaq , jokic ok but I think the center position is not our focus , we need guards and wings (ferguson, diallo, bazley ) we can have better wings and guards



Assuming Wiseman shows that he the clear #1 player as he is being considered right now you take the center. You draft BPA. You don't worry about position at this point of a rebuild. You have a PG in SGA that can play off the ball and guard 1-3 so if BPA is a PG you take them and you can make that work. I like Jaden McDaniels a lot at this point. If Tre Jones doesn't develop a shot I can see Presti taking him with Denver's pick.

Thats what I say if Wiseman is the next superstar bigman that can compared to Davis ot Jokic lets draft him , if not lets get a wing or another pg

Pg : Lamelo, Maledon , Cole Anthony , Nico Mannion , Rj Hampton, Hayes
SG : A Edwards Scottie Lewis
Sf Advija Jaden Mcdaniel , Achiuwa
Pf/c Wiseman , Stewart ,
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#480 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:19 am

The point that got lost in all of this is not that we need to focus on getting a center. It’s that if we don’t have a top 5 or even top 10 pick, then talent at the center position can be found with later picks and have really good value.

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