Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild

[ThunderBolt]

I think OKC is at a crossroads and could try to create a contender still or do the mini tank.

Create a contender, you currently have CP3, Gallinari, and Adams, that's a really good core but missing good wings but have a lot of assets and could send out Schroder and Roberson with draft picks to add another big player, say overwhelm Washington for Beal or a lesser package for someone like DeRozan. See if Gallinari is open to signing an extension, if not talk to Detroit and Cleveland about what it might take with Gallinari to acquire Blake or Love. CP3, Beal/DeRozan, Gallinari/Blake/Love, and Adams is a strong core for 3+ years and you may still have some solid draft picks to draft younger players or to allow Presti to turn some of the older players into younger guys through trades.

If OKC isn't going to try to contend(which I'm guessing is the case), CP3 needs to be jettisoned. I get not wanting to send out draft picks but not doing so could hurt the team long term. The picks they'd be sending out would probably be non lottery picks(like Miami's) BUT it would allow OKC to lose more games without CP3 which would strengthen OKC's own picks. Is it worth keeping 1 or 2 later 1st round picks and possibly dropping from 5th or 6th in possibly 1 or more to 11th or 12th, I'm not sure you could package a 20th pick with a 11th pick to get into the top 6. Minnesota recently traded the 11th pick and Saric to move up to the 6th pick.

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

As you should know, plans change.

Chris Paul is still a good player but there aren't many teams who makes sense to trade for him. For starters there are teams who are trying to build something and adding a player with a limited window aren't on the same timeline. Those teams who's timeline may align with CP3 don't have the cap space or would have to include key players just to match salaries or... and this is key, adding CP3 could drastically change their team's dynamics(something very good teams may be weary to mess with). Personally I think Presti overplayed his hand thinking he could milk Houston for assets(which he did while getting rid of a longer contract) and also thinking the drop off from Westbrook to CP3 wasn't that great and he'd be able to move him pretty easily(because he knows how interested Miami and maybe Detroit were with Westbrook). If Presti did overplay his hand he may switch course again instead of going forward with a bad plan(rebuilding without getting key top of the lottery picks).

So presti made a mistake trading for CP3 and now he should go all in and try to build a contender around him despite the fact we downgraded from George to Gallinari and gave away Jerami Grant? You can't really believe this.

[Dadouv47]

OKC 2020 first pick is top 20 protected and 2022 is top 14 protected, but yeah let's try to contend with a ''meh'' team while losing ouf first round picks instead of rebuilding and draft a lot of young talented guys

[spearsy23]

Unless Chris Paul goes back in time and swaps places with the 2008 version of himself there's absolutely nothing we could do to make ourselves contenders. Even getting Beal without giving up anything but Schroder would just make us a worse version of last year's team.

[BlockCity]

No way would I trade a pick to move Paul. It's up to another team to want him and trade for him.

I'd play him 30 mins a night and rest him the odd game to keep him fresh and wait until mid December to see what the market presents.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

There is no crossroads. Presti has made clear that this team isn't trying to contend. He penned a letter to the fanbase requesting patience for the years ahead.

Also, if Chris Paul is good enough that he's making OKC significantly better, someone will trade for him. It doesn't make sense that this guy is so good he's single handedly leading okc to playoff contention but no one wants him.

As you should know, plans change.

Chris Paul is still a good player but there aren't many teams who makes sense to trade for him. For starters there are teams who are trying to build something and adding a player with a limited window aren't on the same timeline. Those teams who's timeline may align with CP3 don't have the cap space or would have to include key players just to match salaries or... and this is key, adding CP3 could drastically change their team's dynamics(something very good teams may be weary to mess with). Personally I think Presti overplayed his hand thinking he could milk Houston for assets(which he did while getting rid of a longer contract) and also thinking the drop off from Westbrook to CP3 wasn't that great and he'd be able to move him pretty easily(because he knows how interested Miami and maybe Detroit were with Westbrook). If Presti did overplay his hand he may switch course again instead of going forward with a bad plan(rebuilding without getting key top of the lottery picks).

So presti made a mistake trading for CP3 and now he should go all in and try to build a contender around him despite the fact we downgraded from George to Gallinari and gave away Jerami Grant? You can't really believe this.

If you add to the current core. Hence me saying mentioning someone like Beal or DeRozan in earlier posts.

I'm not sure how good of a team you(or Presti) believe can be created without near the top of the lottery draft picks, I guess you have a lot of shots to get lucky with 1 of them and even then, that's not really all that great.

I've never thought Presti was adding draft picks to actually make the picks, I think he's going to use them in trades to acquire talent.

[AirP.]

Unless Chris Paul goes back in time and swaps places with the 2008 version of himself there's absolutely nothing we could do to make ourselves contenders. Even getting Beal without giving up anything but Schroder would just make us a worse version of last year's team.

Really? Gallinari is very good(when healthy), CP3 put up very good stats when Harden didn't play in Houston last year, and you still have Adams, SGA, Ferguson. If you can add a 20+ ppg player to that core I think they have a chance with a couple of other smaller trades for depth. The West is more open this year then it's been in half a decade.

Right now this team isn't set up to tank and could end up in the 10th slot in the draft, not really sure what 2-3 years worth of #10 picks and some mid to late 1st round picks are going to net OKC through the draft.

[Dadouv47]

Unless Chris Paul goes back in time and swaps places with the 2008 version of himself there's absolutely nothing we could do to make ourselves contenders. Even getting Beal without giving up anything but Schroder would just make us a worse version of last year's team.

Really? Gallinari is very good(when healthy), CP3 put up very good stats when Harden didn't play in Houston last year, and you still have Adams, SGA, Ferguson. If you can add a 20+ ppg player to that core I think they have a chance with a couple of other smaller trades for depth. The West is more open this year then it's been in half a decade.

Right now this team isn't set up to tank and could end up in the 10th slot in the draft, not really sure what 2-3 years worth of #10 picks and some mid to late 1st round picks are going to net OKC through the draft.

Gallo won't end up the season as a Thunder player (if he isn't injured).

We don't know what will happen with CP3 but he won't play more than 50 games that's for sure.

There's also a decent chance we trade Adams if a team like Boston or Sacramento is willing to make a good offer.

The West is so strong that we won't end up with a good record and we will be able to get a relatively good draft pick (maybe not top 3 but whatever).

[ThunderBolt]

As you should know, plans change.

Chris Paul is still a good player but there aren't many teams who makes sense to trade for him. For starters there are teams who are trying to build something and adding a player with a limited window aren't on the same timeline. Those teams who's timeline may align with CP3 don't have the cap space or would have to include key players just to match salaries or... and this is key, adding CP3 could drastically change their team's dynamics(something very good teams may be weary to mess with). Personally I think Presti overplayed his hand thinking he could milk Houston for assets(which he did while getting rid of a longer contract) and also thinking the drop off from Westbrook to CP3 wasn't that great and he'd be able to move him pretty easily(because he knows how interested Miami and maybe Detroit were with Westbrook). If Presti did overplay his hand he may switch course again instead of going forward with a bad plan(rebuilding without getting key top of the lottery picks).

So presti made a mistake trading for CP3 and now he should go all in and try to build a contender around him despite the fact we downgraded from George to Gallinari and gave away Jerami Grant? You can't really believe this.

If you add to the current core. Hence me saying mentioning someone like Beal or DeRozan in earlier posts.

I'm not sure how good of a team you(or Presti) believe can be created without near the top of the lottery draft picks, I guess you have a lot of shots to get lucky with 1 of them and even then, that's not really all that great.

I've never thought Presti was adding draft picks to actually make the picks, I think he's going to use them in trades to acquire talent.

We already have shai who looks like a future core piece of the franchise. Incidentally , he wasn’t picked at the top of the lottery. There are great players all throughout the lottery. Yes having a top pick is ideal but no guarantee, see NYK. Okc needs to be in the mix but you can’t rely on ping pong balls anymore.

Okc will get good picks but it doesn’t need to happen this year. Their current assets can be used to move up in a future draft. Minnesota was able to move up and get culver pretty easy this year. Okc has so many options that’s their isn’t a need to hurry.

Also their is no scenario OKC gets Beal without moving shai. Then you risk jeopardizing the future for a significantly if Beal and Gallo walk and Chris Paul will decline. The west is more wide open but it’s not weaker. It just doesn’t have an all time great team at the top. OKC could add Beal to Gallo, CP3 and Adams, be a better team than last year and still miss the playoffs.


Lastly, Derozan sucks.

[spearsy23]

Right now this team isn't set up to tank and could end up in the 10th slot in the draft, not really sure what 2-3 years worth of #10 picks and some mid to late 1st round picks are going to net OKC through the draft.

Curry, Thompson, and green.

[thor19]

Would you trade cp3 and one or two pick if we are getting a player like SGA , a player that we can build in the future? Or you trade cp3 for a pick and bad contracts

[AirP.]

So presti made a mistake trading for CP3 and now he should go all in and try to build a contender around him despite the fact we downgraded from George to Gallinari and gave away Jerami Grant? You can't really believe this.

If you add to the current core. Hence me saying mentioning someone like Beal or DeRozan in earlier posts.

I'm not sure how good of a team you(or Presti) believe can be created without near the top of the lottery draft picks, I guess you have a lot of shots to get lucky with 1 of them and even then, that's not really all that great.

I've never thought Presti was adding draft picks to actually make the picks, I think he's going to use them in trades to acquire talent.

We already have shai who looks like a future core piece of the franchise. Incidentally , he wasn’t picked at the top of the lottery. There are great players all throughout the lottery. Yes having a top pick is ideal but no guarantee, see NYK. Okc needs to be in the mix but you can’t rely on ping pong balls anymore.

Okc will get good picks but it doesn’t need to happen this year. Their current assets can be used to move up in a future draft. Minnesota was able to move up and get culver pretty easy this year. Okc has so many options that’s their isn’t a need to hurry.

Also their is no scenario OKC gets Beal without moving shai. Then you risk jeopardizing the future for a significantly if Beal and Gallo walk and Chris Paul will decline. The west is more wide open but it’s not weaker. It just doesn’t have an all time great team at the top. OKC could add Beal to Gallo, CP3 and Adams, be a better team than last year and still miss the playoffs.


Lastly, Derozan sucks.

Right now this team isn't set up to tank and could end up in the 10th slot in the draft, not really sure what 2-3 years worth of #10 picks and some mid to late 1st round picks are going to net OKC through the draft.

Curry, Thompson, and green.

Right, there's always a chance in the draft of getting a good player lower, but the chances drop as you go further down the draft.

Here's a nice little writeup from 82games.com that took 20 years(89 to 08) of drafts to see what those draft positions yielded.

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Here's some of the text without the stats that they show from that webpage...

So at a glance you can see the first five picks tend towards stars and solid types with no complete busts.

The 6-10 range show about 1/3 of the picks reaching star status, but lots of role players as well.

The mid first round (11-20) is much more a crap shoot with as many busts as stars.

Late first round (21-30) only 6% of picks become stars, and less than half even make it to role player caliber stats.

[AirP.]

Gallo won't end up the season as a Thunder player (if he isn't injured).

Sure

We don't know what will happen with CP3 but he won't play more than 50 games that's for sure.

Not so sure about that. Hopefully so this team can tank(if that's what they end up doing).

There's also a decent chance we trade Adams if a team like Boston or Sacramento is willing to make a good offer.

OKC fans are just overlooking how an overpaid player has some negative value. Adams and CP3 have huge contracts vs their worth, both still good players but vastly overpaid on their current contracts.

The West is so strong that we won't end up with a good record and we will be able to get a relatively good draft pick (maybe not top 3 but whatever).

With CP3 on the team OKC should be better than New York, Charlotte, Cleveland, Memphis, and Washington that puts them at the 6th pick unless someone jumps them, then there's always those teams that just collapse from bad chemistry or injuries. If you're going to rebuild you want the best picks you can get to up your chances of getting a star or 2.

[Dadouv47]

Gallo won't end up the season as a Thunder player (if he isn't injured).

Sure

We don't know what will happen with CP3 but he won't play more than 50 games that's for sure.

Not so sure about that. Hopefully so this team can tank(if that's what they end up doing).

There's also a decent chance we trade Adams if a team like Boston or Sacramento is willing to make a good offer.

OKC fans are just overlooking how an overpaid player has some negative value. Adams and CP3 have huge contracts vs their worth, both still good players but vastly overpaid on their current contracts.

The West is so strong that we won't end up with a good record and we will be able to get a relatively good draft pick (maybe not top 3 but whatever).

With CP3 on the team OKC should be better than New York, Charlotte, Cleveland, Memphis, and Washington that puts them at the 6th pick unless someone jumps them, then there's always those teams that just collapse from bad chemistry or injuries. If you're going to rebuild you want the best picks you can get to up your chances of getting a star or 2.

CP3 contract is beyond terrible. I think all of us agree about this (except maybe one or two). Adams is overpaid but he has only two years left on his contract so I could see him as a positive value next offseason with only one year left on his contract. I just said that maybe a team like Boston could try to trade for him before trade deadline if they are playing well because they have a good team but their bigs are terrible.

And yes OKC should be better than the teams you mentioned, but most of them are in the East so their record could be close to ours' even with a worse team. I think only Phoenix and maybe Memphis will end up with a worse record than us in the West. CP3 won't play every game and we will have a big haul at the PF position without Gallo.

[alessandrux]

Would you trade cp3 and one or two pick if we are getting a player like SGA , a player that we can build in the future? Or you trade cp3 for a pick and bad contracts

I would do both, which trade I would prefer?
Depends on the return.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

If you add to the current core. Hence me saying mentioning someone like Beal or DeRozan in earlier posts.

I'm not sure how good of a team you(or Presti) believe can be created without near the top of the lottery draft picks, I guess you have a lot of shots to get lucky with 1 of them and even then, that's not really all that great.

I've never thought Presti was adding draft picks to actually make the picks, I think he's going to use them in trades to acquire talent.

We already have shai who looks like a future core piece of the franchise. Incidentally , he wasn’t picked at the top of the lottery. There are great players all throughout the lottery. Yes having a top pick is ideal but no guarantee, see NYK. Okc needs to be in the mix but you can’t rely on ping pong balls anymore.

Okc will get good picks but it doesn’t need to happen this year. Their current assets can be used to move up in a future draft. Minnesota was able to move up and get culver pretty easy this year. Okc has so many options that’s their isn’t a need to hurry.

Also their is no scenario OKC gets Beal without moving shai. Then you risk jeopardizing the future for a significantly if Beal and Gallo walk and Chris Paul will decline. The west is more wide open but it’s not weaker. It just doesn’t have an all time great team at the top. OKC could add Beal to Gallo, CP3 and Adams, be a better team than last year and still miss the playoffs.


Lastly, Derozan sucks.

Right now this team isn't set up to tank and could end up in the 10th slot in the draft, not really sure what 2-3 years worth of #10 picks and some mid to late 1st round picks are going to net OKC through the draft.

Curry, Thompson, and green.

Right, there's always a chance in the draft of getting a good player lower, but the chances drop as you go further down the draft.

Here's a nice little writeup from 82games.com that took 20 years(89 to 08) of drafts to see what those draft positions yielded.

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Here's some of the text without the stats that they show from that webpage...

So at a glance you can see the first five picks tend towards stars and solid types with no complete busts.

The 6-10 range show about 1/3 of the picks reaching star status, but lots of role players as well.

The mid first round (11-20) is much more a crap shoot with as many busts as stars.

Late first round (21-30) only 6% of picks become stars, and less than half even make it to role player caliber stats.

I think most of us are in agreement that earlier picks are better than later ones. However, we don't agree that because this team isn't immediately a bottom 5 team in the league that we should spend multiple assets building around a 34 year old injury prone point guard, an injury prone and soon to be free agent forward in Gallinari, while trading for another star that could walk in a year.

Again, I point to the fact that even though it could be a competitive team, it could also be a team that misses the playoffs. If we are going to expect Paul and Gallo to be healthy to make a run in the playoffs then we need to assume that Porzinigs, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and Klay Thompson are healthy and fully recovered. That doesn't factor in the young teams that will likely be better with natural progression lik Denver and Sacramento. Presti has said that the team isn't rebuilding yet because they haven't finished tearing it down. We may not be in full tank mode yet, but this team isn't trying to win.

[AirP.]

I think most of us are in agreement that earlier picks are better than later ones. However, we don't agree that because this team isn't immediately a bottom 5 team in the league that we should spend multiple assets building around a 34 year old injury prone point guard, an injury prone and soon to be free agent forward in Gallinari, while trading for another star that could walk in a year.

Again, I point to the fact that even though it could be a competitive team, it could also be a team that misses the playoffs. If we are going to expect Paul and Gallo to be healthy to make a run in the playoffs then we need to assume that Porzinigs, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and Klay Thompson are healthy and fully recovered. That doesn't factor in the young teams that will likely be better with natural progression lik Denver and Sacramento. Presti has said that the team isn't rebuilding yet because they haven't finished tearing it down. We may not be in full tank mode yet, but this team isn't trying to win.

Plans can change, especially when things you expect to happen don't. I'd suspect that Presi expected C.Paul to be moved by now and that's not happened. CP3 is still a very good player, a difference maker, a good enough player to keep this team from being bad enough to get a much higher draft pick, my only thing is don't let moving a late 1st round pick or 2 stop you from being in a more better position of drafting a difference maker rather than a possible rotation player. I kinda think Presti understands that and will try to move CP3 as soon as he gets the package he wants or decides he's not going to get what he wants. I hope OKC gets a somewhat proven young player with good upside in a package, I don't really care all that much about late round picks(although more shots at talent are always good) or if you're a cap strapped team and need a cheap possible rotation player.

I trust Presti but sometimes him seeing who blinks first has cost the franchise(like I think he is with the CP3 trade), the James Harden situation of him not accepting that contract with only a few million being the difference was a huge blow for the franchise, but on the flip side, he's also made some outstanding trades and contracts with other players.

[AirP.]

CP3 contract is beyond terrible. I think all of us agree about this (except maybe one or two). Adams is overpaid but he has only two years left on his contract so I could see him as a positive value next offseason with only one year left on his contract. I just said that maybe a team like Boston could try to trade for him before trade deadline if they are playing well because they have a good team but their bigs are terrible.

Boston doesn't have the salaries to really make sense to trade for Adams, I doubt Boston would move Hayward after prying him away from Utah(using his relationship with Stephans to woo him, could stop other FA from signing there, they already took a hit trading away I.Thomas), Kemba is more important to them than Adams, they don't have cap space and all their other players are on very small contracts where it wouldn't be a good value to trade for Adams. I do agree Adams would be great in Boston.

This position for OKC just sucks but I'm sure there was a verbal stipulation with OKC and George that if he had an opportunity to go to certain teams that the Thunder would try to make that happen, and that's what they did, probably did the same thing for Westbrook. When you're a small market, you gotta get any advantage you can take, and working with star players should only help them in acquiring possible stars in the future(since they'll know they won't be stuck in a bad situation, so they'll give OKC a real chance).

[slick_watts]

chris paul can cause problems for the thunder if he wants to. so far he hasn't. he might. if he does, there's increased impetus for sam presti to trade him and accept less than desirable terms. maybe. if he doesn't, then the thunder can wait out desperate teams like miami. i don't think sam presti will keep chris paul around if chris paul starts to make a fuss. he hasn't made a fuss yet. that's somewhat surprising to me. who knows what other surprises chris paul has in store for us.

[spearsy23]

chris paul can cause problems for the thunder if he wants to. so far he hasn't. he might. if he does, there's increased impetus for sam presti to trade him and accept less than desirable terms. maybe. if he doesn't, then the thunder can wait out desperate teams like miami. i don't think sam presti will keep chris paul around if chris paul starts to make a fuss. he hasn't made a fuss yet. that's somewhat surprising to me. who knows what other surprises chris paul has in store for us.

The narrative that Chris Paul is the devil has exploded the last few years. He's a dick on the court, but he's always seemed professional off of it.

[spearsy23]

Presti confirms he did not order everyone in Oklahoma to give Durant the cold shoulder.

Also confirms that doc is a liar.