OKC Cloud Noises VS Utah Music Notes 10/24 4:00 PM GMT+13 (New Zealand)

Thundershock88 · Post #21 » by **Thundershock88** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:16 am

Even though we lost, I enjoyed it. Saw some good things out there. Nice way to start the season.

Post #22 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:42 am

jambalaya wrote:SGA gets 1 late assist. Not enough. Career best scoring night but his man goes for 32. -12 raw plus minus on the court, worst of any player in game.

Paul 3 assists, Schroder 4. Not enough.

Rough looking offense.

Can you not make stuff up? Shai didn’t even guard Mitchell except for one possession. If you really want to trash him you could also say he played bad help defense one time when Ferguson got beat.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=3&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&PlayerID=1628378&TeamID=1610612762&GameID=0021900011&ContextMeasure=FGM&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LeagueID=00&DateFrom=&DateTo=&Sorter=DATE&Direction=DESC&PlayerOrTeam=P&Counter=1000&section=players&sct=plot

He should have had another assist out of a time out Late in the game but Adams blew the layup. Shai isn’t a great facilitator yet but if you haven’t noticed, he’s not playing the point. He’s playing shooting guard. Plenty of people to criticize if you want- Ferguson for not even taking a shot but just standing around, Adams for maybe the worst game I’ve ever seen him play or Donovan’s overuse of schroder. He’s got some things he needs to improve on your constant criticism of shai like he’s a 5th year max player is odd to say the least.

spearsy23 · Post #23 » by **spearsy23** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:24 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
jambalaya wrote:SGA gets 1 late assist. Not enough. Career best scoring night but his man goes for 32. -12 raw plus minus on the court, worst of any player in game.

Paul 3 assists, Schroder 4. Not enough.

Rough looking offense.

Can you not make stuff up? Shai didn’t even guard Mitchell except for one possession. If you really want to trash him you could also say he played bad help defense one time when Ferguson got beat.

https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=3&CFID=&CFPARAMS=&PlayerID=1628378&TeamID=1610612762&GameID=0021900011&ContextMeasure=FGM&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LeagueID=00&DateFrom=&DateTo=&Sorter=DATE&Direction=DESC&PlayerOrTeam=P&Counter=1000&section=players&sct=plot

This is what happens when you only look at the box score and decide what happened.

spearsy23 · Post #24 » by **spearsy23** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:31 am

Adams and Dennis can't be this bad if we're going to win games through a more balanced effort, and Ferguson has to at least attempt to have some impact offensively.

Overall though, that's a good team that we hung with right to the end despite not playing even mediocre offensively.

CROklahoma · Post #25 » by **CROklahoma** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:38 am

We should really trade Paul and Gallo for some upside, and leave Schroder for tank commanding us to top8 draft spot.

Or we'll be in a mediocre pick, mediocre spot turmoil with those two, lifting us above that really bad teams line.

Post #26 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:27 am

FWIW, it is of interest that Shai is being treated like the go to guy to get baskets in preseason and game one of the regular season. He definitely has some skills however I really question if that's the best "plan" for his development. One of the things I really liked about Shai was the fact that he's never been a guy that looks for his shot every time he gets the ball. I would like to see him run the offense more. Some of that's on him and a lot of it's on Billy to balance being natural tank commander while putting young guys in a position to succeed. To maximize Shai's abilities, I don't think he needs to be an iso heavy, high volume shooter. Maybe I'm wrong. Billy pulling him when he was going off in the third quarter is about typical for him.

I want to give Adams the benefit of the doubt because I really like him. However, it's hard to overlook performances like last nights'. In the past, he's actually played well against Gobert. Last night he didn't do anything right. He couldn't even time his jumps to pull down rebounds from Mitchell. He couldn't finish anything around the rim. He looked a lot like the guy that got pushed around by Kanter.

It really is amazing how little Ferguson is capable of despite being a decent shooter and a very good athlete. The one time he tried to put the ball on the floor he plows over his defender and gets called for a charge. He stood in the corner and didn't even move most of the time. Shai, CP3 and Dennis didn't look for him the same way Russ used to. Being in a rebuilding stage there really isn't any reason to get rid of him, especially since he's so young. Although it's only game one, this is year three and he's got to start showing something.

Bazley looked lost. Had a nice pass that didn't result in an assist. He finishes around the rim like Grant did his first year hear.

Diallo looks the same to me. He's decent in transition but as teams adjust he'll struggle in the half court. He probably has the worst looking shot on the team, not including Dre.

Not really sure how we are supposed to feel about any game. If we win, we could to enjoy the game. If we lose, we're helping our drafting percentages. I thought the team defense was decent. Muscala getting minutes over Noel was a little surprising. Also expected Billy to play Nader.

jambalaya · Post #27 » by **jambalaya** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:31 pm

You are right SGA didn't guard Mitchell much, though there were times he should have. I said that based on positional assumption. He didn't guard anyone with any effort. Probably didn't take Mitchell because he wasn't up to it.

I mostly watched the second half after I found a stream. He was less prominent later. Mentioning Mitchell was a mistake but SGA's actual D was in fact often awful. Lots of standing straight up, hardly moving.

I criticized team several times for putting SGA in a SG score mainly / only role. But that is what they going with for some months at least.

Did you notice that the passing issue and raw plus minus issues carried forward from pre-season and last season? I noted those things when nobody else would and they continued last night.

Two sides of information better than just only positive. No he isn't a 5 yr vet / max player yet but many assume he is headed to that, so evaluating against that narrative / expectations is not unreasonable.

Ferguson and Adams and others sucked but that was obvious and I didnt bother with them, with almost nobody else around.

I wrote about SGA weaknesses after only hearing others here, on twitter and elsewhere praising the scoring and not mentioning anything else.

SGA's assist rate in pre-season / regular season is so low it is barely above Ferguson's rate last season.

Pillendreher · Post #28 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:56 pm

Per stats.nba.com, 1 (!) potential assist in 37 minutes of play.

Bergmaniac · Post #29 » by **Bergmaniac** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:57 pm

30 minutes for Schroder, ouch. Are you trying to tank right from the start?

I wonder if Billy can make even a CP3 run offense look bad, it looked pretty bad in this one. Very early days obviously, but still...

Galloisdaman · Post #30 » by **Galloisdaman** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:09 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:30 minutes for Schroder, ouch. Are you trying to tank right from the start?

I wonder if Billy can make even a CP3 run offense look bad, it looked pretty bad in this one. Very early days obviously, but still...

I know I'm biased but I wondered why Gallo 22pts 7reb 2assists only played 28 minutes while Schroder 3pts 6reb 4assists played 30 minutes.

Post #31 » by **Dadouv47** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:11 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:30 minutes for Schroder, ouch. Are you trying to tank right from the start?

I wonder if Billy can make even a CP3 run offense look bad, it looked pretty bad in this one. Very early days obviously, but still...

I would be fine if that was the goal but Billy Donovan is the only one that still think Schroeder is a good player.

Hope we can get rid of both for next season..

jambalaya · Post #32 » by **jambalaya** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:21 pm

Re SGA's shooting / scoring night, his shooting efficiency was a bit below league average and his scoring efficiency was well below average due to the ft misses.

Thunder team assists per game very low, tied for 2nd lowest in league, just like pre-season. So it isn't like they don't need them. He certainly had the ball in his hand a lot to have plenty of opportunity to create assists or at least potential assists.

Last night SGA was almost exactly last season Russ level usage, scoring efficiency and defense but without the passing or the turnovers. I'd like to see some improvements.

On to the next games.

Post #33 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:54 pm

I think I’ve been pretty fair about shai at this point. He’s not shown he’s an elite offensive facilitator yet and I’ve acknowledged that before last nights game. He’s not a Luka Doncic level prospect. However that doesn’t mean he’s not going to develop into a very good nba guard. The guy put up a career high in his first game with the thunder.

His efficiency will probably be below league average all year. Especially if he’s going to have such a high usage. I also read he was one of the lightest guys in the nba last year. He’s getting screened very easily right now, The dude was 20 years old three months ago. Young guys get better and progress isn’t linear. His body isn’t even close to being developed like it will be in 2-3 more years. He may never add passing to his game but give him some time. You don’t trade a guy like shai when he hasn’t played an nba game for OKC yet. I would like to see improvement too but be patient.

jambalaya · Post #34 » by **jambalaya** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:10 pm

They are keeping Shai.

The praise hasn't been over the top, compared to some other young chosen ones. It shouldn't be. The critique shouldn't be either but I felt there are things to watch.

I wish him well. I prefer to start cautious even tough. In general I find perimeter scorers to be the most over-praised and that bugs me some. I hope to find more to like and less to critique over time.

acheema0 · Post #35 » by **acheema0** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:13 pm

(Didn't see this thread so I'll post this here) Perfect tank game last night. Team will be solid as long as Gallo is here. 57.8 ORTG w him off vs/ 116.9 with him on. SGA and CP3 looked good too but SGA really hasn't been passing the ball much since he's been here (SSS I know). I wonder if they've told him to not worry about facilitating when he's on the court w CP3/Dennis.

Post #36 » by **Dadouv47** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:14 pm

We all want him to play like a future superstar but he will need time. Let's wait some months before making any good or bad assumption.

Post #37 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:18 pm

acheema0 wrote:(Didn't see this thread so I'll post this here) Perfect tank game last night. Team will be solid as long as Gallo is here. 57.8 ORTG w him off vs/ 116.9 with him on. SGA and CP3 looked good too but SGA really hasn't been passing the ball much since he's been here (SSS I know). I wonder if they've told him to not worry about facilitating when he's on the court w CP3/Dennis.

This is what I think.

acheema0 · Post #38 » by **acheema0** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:37 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I think I’ve been pretty fair about shai at this point. He’s not shown he’s an elite offensive facilitator yet and I’ve acknowledged that before last nights game. He’s not a Luka Doncic level prospect. However that doesn’t mean he’s not going to develop into a very good nba guard. The guy put up a career high in his first game with the thunder.

His efficiency will probably be below league average all year. Especially if he’s going to have such a high usage. I also read he was one of the lightest guys in the nba last year. He’s getting screened very easily right now, The dude was 20 years old three months ago. Young guys get better and progress isn’t linear. His body isn’t even close to being developed like it will be in 2-3 more years. He may never add passing to his game but give him some time. You don’t trade a guy like shai when he hasn’t played an nba game for OKC yet. I would like to see improvement too but be patient.

I remember seeing he was lighter than Ferg and being shocked.
Also I think he'll be near/above league average efficiency even at a decent usage. He takes good shots and he's a very good FT shooter (normally, he sucked last night). He seemed overly afraid around Gobert last night and was throwing some shots up at weird angles around him.

acheema0 · Post #39 » by **acheema0** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:38 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
Bergmaniac wrote:30 minutes for Schroder, ouch. Are you trying to tank right from the start?

I wonder if Billy can make even a CP3 run offense look bad, it looked pretty bad in this one. Very early days obviously, but still...

I know I'm biased but I wondered why Gallo 22pts 7reb 2assists only played 28 minutes while Schroder 3pts 6reb 4assists played 30 minutes.

It'll be like that all year. They don't want to over-exert Gallo in fear of injury when they'll end up trading him.

Galloisdaman · Post #40 » by **Galloisdaman** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:23 pm

acheema0 wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
Bergmaniac wrote:30 minutes for Schroder, ouch. Are you trying to tank right from the start?

I wonder if Billy can make even a CP3 run offense look bad, it looked pretty bad in this one. Very early days obviously, but still...

I know I'm biased but I wondered why Gallo 22pts 7reb 2assists only played 28 minutes while Schroder 3pts 6reb 4assists played 30 minutes.

It'll be like that all year. They don't want to over-exert Gallo in fear of injury when they'll end up trading him.

That makes sense....BUT I do not like it lol :lol: