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It's absolutely embarrassing that OKC has settled in on Ferguson as their starting SF. The guy is a scrub and shouldn't be the starter or playing heavy minutes on any NBA roster.

Here we are 3 years into his NBA career and there's been absolutely no growth to his game. NONE!

He hasn't added anything to his offensive game.

His ball handling is still average at best.

He gets lost and is out of position far too often on defense.

Can't fight over screens worth a damn.

Etc., etc., etc.

I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that he doesn't appear to even want to try to contribute on offense. He's content just hiding in the corner and only putting up 1 or 2 shots a game. Hell, it's gotten to the point to where you can legitimately make the argument that Andre Roberson offers more on offense. At least Roberson would slash to the rim for some cheapies from time to time throughout the game.

1bigfan13 wrote:I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that he doesn't appear to even want to try to contribute on offense. He's content just hiding in the corner and only putting up 1 or 2 shots a game.

One might think that that is by design. Last season he set an NBA record for fewest touches per game for a guy with his kind of minutes. He has never been a part of this team's offense.

When you look at where the team is, who else do you put there? Diallo is getting minutes and maybe he’s a better offensive player but his shot is broken almost to a roberson level. Both he and Ferguson are foul machines. I don’t have high hopes for him right now but there isn’t much harm in keeping him around unless someone wants him. Maybe the next coach can do something to help him improve. Best case scenario is he becomes a cheap role player off the bench. If Presti pays him big money then he becomes our next Kanter contract.

The TFerg experiment was part of the Presti build around Westbrook and later WB - George and their salaries design. You could say it worked to a certain level before (good performing starting unit). Maybe it could be serviceable now. Not desirable, not meeting needed performance level now. Could Presti hold onto that model of a low activity. low pay TFerg for a SGA - Adams model or SGA and someone new? Those models aren't particularly impressive to me, articulated that far.

As I assume Paul and Galinari are temporary. I assume TFerg. Shroder, Noel, Nader, Burton, Roberson, Muscala, Hall are temporary. Diallo and Dort may be temporary but have chance to be more. Bazley probably gets at least 3 years and is intended to be permanent whether he proves to be or not. Who knows about Patton at this point.

TFerg hasn't developed, hasn't really had much opportunity or tried much. Probably not going to happen for Thunder. But we'll keep seeing him til they trade him or let him go for nothing. Presti mistakes are not admitted to be mistakes until the final get rid of move.

Most or almost all of the future team is not on the team yet.

Ferg has had opportunities. They tried to use him in SL to run the offense and it was a disaster. He's gotten way more minutes than he should have thus far. He might not have had the freedom to create his own shot, however those are still things he can be working on in practice and he should have a feel for the flow of the game. The fact that he's completely incapable in year three isn't exclusively the fault of the thunder.

ThunderBolt wrote:The fact that he's completely incapable in year three isn't exclusively the fault of the thunder.

It does speak volumes about their decision making though.

Pillendreher wrote:

ThunderBolt wrote:The fact that he's completely incapable in year three isn't exclusively the fault of the thunder.

It does speak volumes about their decision making though.

I don't disagree. As I've said before most of these situations don't involve 100% blame on either party. Russ was talented enough to overcome mediocre coaching in a lot of ways. Good players are good regardless of coaching. However would Russ have been better with a better coach? It couldn't have hurt.

Guys like Ferguson can't overcome mediocre coaching because he's just not that good to begin with. However we've also seen guys like Brad Stevens prevent his team from getting a good draft pick because he maximized role players that didn't prove to be that good when they went to other teams.

Billy has shown absolutely nothing the whole time he's been here. However, moving forward we need a good pick this year. I've wanted to rebulid for a while but I don't want us to suck any longer than we have to. Billy and Dennis can make my dreams come true sooner rather than later but driving this team to the bottom of the western conference. Sam isn't going to bring in a Greg Popovich type coach but if Shai can be the high IQ pg I think he can be, then maybe a Scott Brooks type coach will suffice.

ThunderBolt wrote:

Pillendreher wrote:

ThunderBolt wrote:The fact that he's completely incapable in year three isn't exclusively the fault of the thunder.

It does speak volumes about their decision making though.

I don't disagree. As I've said before most of these situations don't involve 100% blame on either party. Russ was talented enough to overcome mediocre coaching in a lot of ways. Good players are good regardless of coaching. However would Russ have been better with a better coach? It couldn't have hurt.

Guys like Ferguson can't overcome mediocre coaching because he's just not that good to begin with. However we've also seen guys like Brad Stevens prevent his team from getting a good draft pick because he maximized role players that didn't prove to be that good when they went to other teams.

Billy has shown absolutely nothing the whole time he's been here. However, moving forward we need a good pick this year. I've wanted to rebulid for a while but I don't want us to suck any longer than we have to. Billy and Dennis can make my dreams come true sooner rather than later but driving this team to the bottom of the western conference. Sam isn't going to bring in a Greg Popovich type coach but if Shai can be the high IQ pg I think he can be, then maybe a Scott Brooks type coach will suffice.

I get what you're saying, yet I think that right now is the time where this franchise can't afford any more of the same mistakes. They have just wasted four years (!) with an absolutely inept head coach. They can't go for a rebuild and then waste another year with no NBA level coaching. They have multiple young players on the roster right now. In order to turn them into the best players they can be - which is also necessary in order to be able to find out wether said players should be a part of the team going forward - they need good coaching. Not next season, but right now. This roster is not good. They just lost three of their four best players. They are not going anywhere this season. They will suck even with a good coach instead of Donovan. But right now it's important to lay a foundation for the team and the franchise going forward. Young players need to be molded. The Thunder wasted yet another opportunity at that by not replacing Donovan after trading their core.

A team can be well coached and still fight for a good pick. But holding onto this fool is making it impossible to evaluate the roster and to actually get better long-term.

I don't disagree but they won't find that guy in the middle of the season. If they wait until the offseason to fire Donovan, I don't think all is lost in the development of future players. However it sucks for us and slows it down a bit. I don't think most of the future players for the next generation of the thunder are on the roster yet. I hope that Donovan gets fired midseason too.

Although the OKC media is pretty soft, i continue to here more grumbling about Billy Donovan. Tramel used to be Billy's biggest fan and even he's soured on him. Others are doing so as well. I guess I just feel really confident that he'll be gone at the end of the season. If I'm wrong, I'm going to be extremely disappointed and probably get banned from this board.

Also, who are you talking about when you say the thunder lost their three best players?

ThunderBolt wrote:Also, who are you talking about when you say the thunder lost their three best players?

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Obviously Westbrook, George and this guy

ThunderBolt wrote:When you look at where the team is, who else do you put there? Diallo is getting minutes and maybe he’s a better offensive player but his shot is broken almost to a roberson level. Both he and Ferguson are foul machines. I don’t have high hopes for him right now but there isn’t much harm in keeping him around unless someone wants him. Maybe the next coach can do something to help him improve. Best case scenario is he becomes a cheap role player off the bench. If Presti pays him big money then he becomes our next Kanter contract.

I'd be fine putting Diallo or Nader out there in his place. I'm mainly just looking to have someone out there playing the SF position who will actually contribute something, anything, on the offensive end.

If Ferguson were simply just struggling with his shot and had shot something like 2-8 in each of the last two game, I'd have no complaints. But the fact that he's not even trying to contribute bothers the hell out of me. It's like he's scared to compete.

With Steven Adams and Ferguson looking like complete non-factors on offense, it looks like OKC will probably be bottom 5 in ppg.

Pillendreher wrote:

ThunderBolt wrote:

Pillendreher wrote:
It does speak volumes about their decision making though.

I don't disagree. As I've said before most of these situations don't involve 100% blame on either party. Russ was talented enough to overcome mediocre coaching in a lot of ways. Good players are good regardless of coaching. However would Russ have been better with a better coach? It couldn't have hurt.

Guys like Ferguson can't overcome mediocre coaching because he's just not that good to begin with. However we've also seen guys like Brad Stevens prevent his team from getting a good draft pick because he maximized role players that didn't prove to be that good when they went to other teams.

Billy has shown absolutely nothing the whole time he's been here. However, moving forward we need a good pick this year. I've wanted to rebulid for a while but I don't want us to suck any longer than we have to. Billy and Dennis can make my dreams come true sooner rather than later but driving this team to the bottom of the western conference. Sam isn't going to bring in a Greg Popovich type coach but if Shai can be the high IQ pg I think he can be, then maybe a Scott Brooks type coach will suffice.

I get what you're saying, yet I think that right now is the time where this franchise can't afford any more of the same mistakes. They have just wasted four years (!) with an absolutely inept head coach. They can't go for a rebuild and then waste another year with no NBA level coaching. They have multiple young players on the roster right now. In order to turn them into the best players they can be - which is also necessary in order to be able to find out wether said players should be a part of the team going forward - they need good coaching. Not next season, but right now. This roster is not good. They just lost three of their four best players. They are not going anywhere this season. They will suck even with a good coach instead of Donovan. But right now it's important to lay a foundation for the team and the franchise going forward. Young players need to be molded. The Thunder wasted yet another opportunity at that by not replacing Donovan after trading their core.

A team can be well coached and still fight for a good pick. But holding onto this fool is making it impossible to evaluate the roster and to actually get better long-term.

You're absolutely right about this being a crucial period for the OKC franchise in terms of coaching & player development. Seems like a longshot for Billy Donovan to be fired midseason. Mainly because we're not expected to make the playoffs and we don't have a future elite franchise player on the roster.....like back in 2008 when Carlisimo was cut loose early in the year.

I'd be interested in knowing what parameters Presti has in place for Donovan to retain the job beyond this year. Player development should be at or near the top of that list. If that's the case he's failing miserably. Unless I'm forgetting someone, the only player who has shown any type of growth during Donovan's tenure was Jerami Grant. Everyone else's game either remained stagnant or regressed.

He'll go 18/40 from three over the next eight games and look like a good role player again if he can find anyone to get him looks.

This is a terrible offense for him. He's not aggressive enough to stand in the corner and get shots up without a point guard like Russ looking for him. Get him in a system where he can get looks by moving without the ball and he'll be useful.

Im fine giving Diallo a few more minutes but not nader. Nader has peaked at being a poor mans dennis Schroder which is basically a homeless alcoholic in the basketball world.

I’m disappointed with fergs play but he’s still so young. This organization has struggled with finding good role players. I’m still hopeful that he could be that even if it’s a ways out. Maybe giving Ferguson more minutes against the second unit would help him develop some offensive skill.Unfortunately that can’t happen as long as the second unit is the Dennis Schroder iso show.

I'm very skeptical that Ferg will ever be more than a "3 and D" wing. His ceiling to me was a Danny Green type, but the way he's trending he might end up like Corey Brewer. I don't completely blame him for the offensive struggles because he has barely touched the ball and it's a tough ask for a player to touch the ball maybe 5 times all game and make shots when they see it. But I can't believe he still can't get over screens. His defense on the ball and even off the ball isn't bad but whenever a screen is set on him (on-ball)it's over. That was something that killed him last year and it's crazy to me it looks just as bad this year. In the offseason he talked about how he was working on "one-dribble pull ups" from the midrange which is probably the worst thing possible for him to have done. I doubt he'll be good enough on those to warrant him passing up 3's. I'm willing to let him play through it (because we want to lose) but I would be surprised if he becomes anything more than a decent bench wing at this point.

don’t forget guys, he’s gonna be a Jimmy Butler type player by year 3 or 4

The problem with Ferguson is that he is a 3 and D wing that cant shoot consistently and is too slight of build to guard big wings. He has no dribble game at all and doesn't really rebound well. He doesn't really have any skill that stands out. Diallo is a better rebounder and is a comparable defender. If Diallo developed a jumper, there would be no reason to play Ferguson at all. That's really the only reason Ferguson is firmly in the rotation. There aren't any wings clearly better than him atm.

Ferguson was very good defensively at times last year. He shouldn't be guarding 3's though.

I think thats the problem TFerg can't really play the 3, ww have Shai , Diallo , and sometines Dennis play the 2 and Tferg is a 2 , I am not a big fan of him, he is not aggresive and maybe last year with West and Pg we dont need him like that but this year he should know that is a tryout year and he need to show what he can do

I don’t think he really looks like he’s put on that much muscle.