2019-20 Around the NBA Thread

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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#181 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Mar 1, 2020 6:38 pm

Vator wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:It’s almost like Russ and Harden would both be better off surrounded by Robert Covington/PJ tucker level players than another star. Russ has been very good but Harden sucks right now. The games I’ve watched recently Harden looks like he isn’t having fun and can’t hit any shots. It’s like he can’t handle not being the entire offense for a team.


Putting it kindly, he definitely had a rough January as he adjusted to Russ taking over more ball handling duties, but including yesterday’s stinker, he averaged 32 points per game on 46% and 37% from 3 along with 6 rebounds and 8 assists in February so he’s been fine overall. He’s just prone to a poor shooting game here and there because of the volume of 3 pointers he takes. Comparatively, Russ averaged 33 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists in February. They’ve actually been playing well together lately.

His February was quite a bit better now that I look at the numbers. January was brutal though. It says a lot that Houston won despite him playing so poorly in a tough playoff-like road environment.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#182 » by Vator » Sun Mar 1, 2020 6:47 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:It’s almost like Russ and Harden would both be better off surrounded by Robert Covington/PJ tucker level players than another star. Russ has been very good but Harden sucks right now. The games I’ve watched recently Harden looks like he isn’t having fun and can’t hit any shots. It’s like he can’t handle not being the entire offense for a team.


Putting it kindly, he definitely had a rough January as he adjusted to Russ taking over more ball handling duties, but including yesterday’s stinker, he averaged 32 points per game on 46% and 37% from 3 along with 6 rebounds and 8 assists in February so he’s been fine overall. He’s just prone to a poor shooting game here and there because of the volume of 3 pointers he takes. Comparatively, Russ averaged 33 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assist in February. They’ve actually been playing well together lately.

Also consider the stats below that I read from another poster this morning.

In order of net rating

Season

Harden and No Westbrook : +8.4
Harden and Westbrook : +7.4
Westbrook no Harden : +0.4

Last 12 games

Harden and Westbrook : +16.6
Harden no Westbrook : +11.0
Westbrook no Harden : -0.8


Harden is what makes this thing work even with the roster adjustment. It has seemingly made the Harden and Westbrook tandem much more dynamic and has unlocked Westbrook’s full potential and given him the space he needs to dominate and flourish, but without Harden on the floor it hasn’t really been good at all.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#183 » by Thunder Up » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:10 pm

Can we trade Billy to free agency for Atkinson
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#184 » by getrichordie » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:51 pm

Thunder Up wrote:Can we trade Billy to free agency for Atkinson


What makes you think Atkinson is a better coach?
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#185 » by Thunder Up » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:16 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Thunder Up wrote:Can we trade Billy to free agency for Atkinson


What makes you think Atkinson is a better coach?


Just the fact that he is, and can actually develop young talents
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#186 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Mar 7, 2020 6:36 pm

This Kenny Atkinson thing is beyond weird. I don't think Donovan is going anywhere but Kenny would definitely be at the top of the list.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#187 » by getrichordie » Sat Mar 7, 2020 7:38 pm

Thunder Up wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Thunder Up wrote:Can we trade Billy to free agency for Atkinson


What makes you think Atkinson is a better coach?


Just the fact that he is, and can actually develop young talents


Oh, really? Where's the evidence that Donovan cannot? Look who Donovan has had to work with... Nets have had much better prospects in Allen, LeVert, and Dinwiddie. What other young prospect has he developed??? You can't even begin to compare the two.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#188 » by getrichordie » Sat Mar 7, 2020 7:44 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:This Kenny Atkinson thing is beyond weird. I don't think Donovan is going anywhere but Kenny would definitely be at the top of the list.


It is quite strange. Has the Nets organization spoken about why they parted ways? But yeah, if Donovan isn't brought back for whatever reason, Atkinson is definitely a top candidate to replace him.

Adrian Griffin and Becky Hammon are also candidates I would hold in high regard. I also like Jeff Bzeldik. Dan Burke is another name I'd give consideration to.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#189 » by Thunder Up » Sat Mar 7, 2020 10:04 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Thunder Up wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
What makes you think Atkinson is a better coach?


Just the fact that he is, and can actually develop young talents


Oh, really? Where's the evidence that Donovan cannot? Look who Donovan has had to work with... Nets have had much better prospects in Allen, LeVert, and Dinwiddie. What other young prospect has he developed??? You can't even begin to compare the two.


Where's the evidence that Donovan cannot??? He has not developed a single player since he's been with the Thunder, Dipo looked like a trash can with the Thunder, he had Sabonis doing nothing but shoot corner threes which he had never shown any ability to do. He is a terrible in game adjustment coach and he puts together awful rotations. Look how long it took him to play Grant over Melo's minutes.

Dinwiddie was not looked at as a promising prospect at all, look where he's gone from his first year with the Nets to last year... He reigned in DLoading and made him into the player he has finally developed into.

Joe Harris? Hell, he had Kurucs playing legit minutes and looking like a decent NBA rotational player as a rookie. Allen was also not viewed as some stud.... I will give you LeVert, I was very high on him too there was just the injury concerns that caused him to drop. He was still well developed within the system, especially alongside DLo

He has an actual offensive system, and can make intelligent tactical in game adjustments... he also demands things from his star players (again, see DLo) which apparently was too much for baby Kyrie (I am assuming)
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#190 » by getrichordie » Sat Mar 7, 2020 10:37 pm

Thunder Up wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Thunder Up wrote:
Just the fact that he is, and can actually develop young talents


Oh, really? Where's the evidence that Donovan cannot? Look who Donovan has had to work with... Nets have had much better prospects in Allen, LeVert, and Dinwiddie. What other young prospect has he developed??? You can't even begin to compare the two.


Where's the evidence that Donovan cannot??? He has not developed a single player since he's been with the Thunder, Dipo looked like a trash can with the Thunder, he had Sabonis doing nothing but shoot corner threes which he had never shown any ability to do. He is a terrible in game adjustment coach and he puts together awful rotations. Look how long it took him to play Grant over Melo's minutes.

Dinwiddie was not looked at as a promising prospect at all, look where he's gone from his first year with the Nets to last year... He reigned in DLoading and made him into the player he has finally developed into.

Joe Harris? Hell, he had Kurucs playing legit minutes and looking like a decent NBA rotational player as a rookie. Allen was also not viewed as some stud.... I will give you LeVert, I was very high on him too there was just the injury concerns that caused him to drop. He was still well developed within the system, especially alongside DLo

He has an actual offensive system, and can make intelligent tactical in game adjustments... he also demands things from his star players (again, see DLo) which apparently was too much for baby Kyrie (I am assuming)


Who has Billy had a chance to develop, really? He developed Grant and Adams into nice pieces as well as Noel. For the most part, Donovan has coached players who are already developed. He's made less-skilled guys look better than they are at times (Burton, Diallo, Ferguson, etc.). Donovan can't control who Presti drafts.

Furthermore, Atkinson has had far better (and way more) young prospects than Donovan has ever had during his tenure. But Grant, Adams, and Noel are young pieces who have developed nicely that he can hang his hat on. And largely, Schroder and SGA seem to be coming along nicely under Donovan as well.

It also must be noted that it is incredibly difficult to develop prospects on an established and contending team as minutes and shots are sparse. The only thing a player has seemingly been able to do over the past few years is develop defensively and we've seen defensive development out of the likes of Noel, Ferguson, Adams, and Grant over the years. That's nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#191 » by Thunder Up » Sat Mar 7, 2020 11:07 pm

Noel has been a roaming defensive stud his whole career. Billy and staff has developed nothing of his game

Ferguson continues to be overstated, Adams always overstated

I’ll give you Grant as the only player of substance and growth as a young player into a viable NBA talent
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Re: 2019-20 Around the NBA Thread 

Post#192 » by getrichordie » Wed Jun 3, 2020 3:18 pm

Well, in other news, Keith Smith just completely ripped my idea for replicating HCA on twitter 15 minutes after I posted it and didn't even credit me. :roll:
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