Game 45: Oklahoma City Thunder (25-19) @ Orlando Magic (21-23) - 7:00 PM ET

[Old Man Game]

Maybe Dennis is just happier now. He's got a wife and kid. His boy Mike Muscala on the team with him. Maybe it's easier to focus.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[getrichordie]

Maybe Dennis is just happier now. He's got a wife and kid. His boy Mike Muscala on the team with him. Maybe it's easier to focus.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

I would be happier playing next to Chris Paul versus Westbrook too.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I don't think SGA is going to want to play with prospects when he can play with proven players and win now. I don't understand why no one else can see that. He is our franchise player for the next 10 years. We need to do what he wants. And I guarantee you that tanking is not what he wants.

Because in three years when those win now players are cooked and it is SGA and a bunch of scrubs he's going to get disgruntled quickly and have the ability to get out much faster. Right now OKC has about 7 years to build with SGA. If you ride out CP3 and Gallo then go to crap right before he hits RFA he could, although probably wouldn't, just take the QO and leave OKC with a bottom 5 team after all their first round picks, at least the ones they didn't give up by making the playoffs, end up in the 16-22 range.

Do you think SGA would rather get stomped in the first round for the next 2-3 years or get a few top 5 picks next to him and be a young playoff team with a high ceiling as he enters his second contract? I'm going to guess he would rather get the sucking over with now instead of being told he's stuck with a crap team AFTER he establishes himself as a star and sees other top draft picks in his class going deep in the playoffs.

[QPR]

That's the issue. He wouldn't be a starter for a winning team.

No, that isn't an issue.

Please, give me an example of a trade of Schroeder to a good team when we can get some decent asset in return.

If he was an expiring it would be way easier to trade him.

That's not what you said though. You said a team wouldn't be willing to trade for him, which is different to a team wouldn't be willing to trade what OKC would presumably want for him. Presti will no doubt field offers for him (if he isn't already).

[WestbrookGOATed]

I don't think SGA is going to want to play with prospects when he can play with proven players and win now. I don't understand why no one else can see that. He is our franchise player for the next 10 years. We need to do what he wants. And I guarantee you that tanking is not what he wants.

Because in three years when those win now players are cooked and it is SGA and a bunch of scrubs he's going to get disgruntled quickly and have the ability to get out much faster. Right now OKC has about 7 years to build with SGA. If you ride out CP3 and Gallo then go to crap right before he hits RFA he could, although probably wouldn't, just take the QO and leave OKC with a bottom 5 team after all their first round picks, at least the ones they didn't give up by making the playoffs, end up in the 16-22 range.

Do you think SGA would rather get stomped in the first round for the next 2-3 years or get a few top 5 picks next to him and be a young playoff team with a high ceiling as he enters his second contract? I'm going to guess he would rather get the sucking over with now instead of being told he's stuck with a crap team AFTER he establishes himself as a star and sees other top draft picks in his class going deep in the playoffs.

Even with a few top 5 picks next to him do you think that's going to guarantee success? Does every top 5 draft pick develop into a superstar? Its a big gamble to take. We don't even know what the draft is going to look like in the future and this years draft class is SUPER weak.

We could trade the good players we have like CP3, Adams, Schröder and Gallo and still end up missing on draft picks and SGA leaves anyway. Most of our important draft picks are atleast 3 or 4 years away. When the win now players will be off the books anyway.

Say we trade everybody and tank the rest of the season, who are we going to take that would be worth throwing this season away and killing the unbelievable chemistry this team has? The way this team has played this season has given no indication that they would get stomped in the first round. They've beaten alot of really good teams this year and had alot of very close losses too.

Last year through 45 games this team was 27-18. They traded their superstars, gained a million picks and 45 games through this season their record is almost identical at 26-19. You know that old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it? I feel that applies here. We can have a playoff team until its time to use the draft picks we've acquired and THEN build through the draft. We have what 15 picks? How many players can be on the court at 1 time? We don't need more picks.

[Kizz Fastfists]

It is WAY too late to tank this season. Presti sealed that up when he didn't continue the moves for a rebuild in the off-season. What valuable draft picks? Where you project the LAC and Houston picks to be? You think Kawhi and PG are going to walk and LAC is going to be sending top 10 picks? You think Houston will be missing the playoffs without going full tank to protect their picks? Are picks in the 20s going to yield anything significant?

Presti has a 75% hit rate in the top 5 and 80% in the top 10. After that his record is very mediocre. That isn't as much a flaw of Presti, with a few exceptions like Huestis which was just a stupid idea, as much as it is an indicator of where you need to pick to be able to predict what you are getting. OKC could have gotten themselves two top 10 picks and probably top 5 by properly tanking this year and next. Then when the picks kicked in they would be adding the supporting case and IF they got lucky and got another star player out of it that would set them for potentially multiple championships. Instead they have no picks that you can project to be top 4.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

I don't think SGA is going to want to play with prospects when he can play with proven players and win now. I don't understand why no one else can see that. He is our franchise player for the next 10 years. We need to do what he wants. And I guarantee you that tanking is not what he wants.

Because in three years when those win now players are cooked and it is SGA and a bunch of scrubs he's going to get disgruntled quickly and have the ability to get out much faster. Right now OKC has about 7 years to build with SGA. If you ride out CP3 and Gallo then go to crap right before he hits RFA he could, although probably wouldn't, just take the QO and leave OKC with a bottom 5 team after all their first round picks, at least the ones they didn't give up by making the playoffs, end up in the 16-22 range.

Do you think SGA would rather get stomped in the first round for the next 2-3 years or get a few top 5 picks next to him and be a young playoff team with a high ceiling as he enters his second contract? I'm going to guess he would rather get the sucking over with now instead of being told he's stuck with a crap team AFTER he establishes himself as a star and sees other top draft picks in his class going deep in the playoffs.

Even with a few top 5 picks next to him do you think that's going to guarantee success? Does every top 5 draft pick develop into a superstar? Its a big gamble to take. We don't even know what the draft is going to look like in the future and this years draft class is SUPER weak.

We could trade the good players we have like CP3, Adams, Schröder and Gallo and still end up missing on draft picks and SGA leaves anyway. Most of our important draft picks are atleast 3 or 4 years away. When the win now players will be off the books anyway.

Say we trade everybody and tank the rest of the season, who are we going to take that would be worth throwing this season away and killing the unbelievable chemistry this team has? The way this team has played this season has given no indication that they would get stomped in the first round. They've beaten alot of really good teams this year and had alot of very close losses too.

Last year through 45 games this team was 27-18. They traded their superstars, gained a million picks and 45 games through this season their record is almost identical at 26-19. You know that old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it? I feel that applies here. We can have a playoff team until its time to use the draft picks we've acquired and THEN build through the draft. We have what 15 picks? How many players can be on the court at 1 time? We don't need more picks.

Nothing guarantees success but Chris Paul is 34. What is guaranteed is that he and shai wont grow old together. If somehow Sam manages to trade up in the draft and find another really good young talent this year, I’m ok with keeping some of these older guys to develop young guys. However finding guys outside the top 5 is much harder. It’s very unlikely we will be successful rebuilding if we don’t get some picks in the top ten. I think it’s good for fans to go back an read sam’s op ed article again. We will rebuild but we haven’t torn it down yet. Maybe it looks different than last time but it’s for sure coming.

[Pillendreher]

I'm mad the Schroder I knew he could be didn't show up until this season

How nice would Terrance Ross had been last season too?

Sam Presti is allergic to NBA level wings.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Most of our important draft picks are atleast 3 or 4 years away. When the win now players will be off the books anyway.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Are you suggesting that in a few years when the picks start to roll in OKC trade SGA for more assets and tank then? I would disagree with that as being optimal, but I could be convinced that it is the only logical path for Presti to take for a real rebuild since he seems to be a make the playoffs every year and never get past the first round mind set. I just don't see that mindset changing and I think he will end up foolishly trading those picks for win now players to keep making the playoffs and OKC will never tank until he runs out of tricks to keep it going and OKC will never be a contender because he'll never got top end talent just enough to keep making the playoffs.

[ThunderBolt]

People on both sides of the tank/maintain-what-we-have argument let emotions and what they see on the court sway their opinion. It takes time as well astwo teams to make a trade. I Nothing that has happened so far shows that presti is deviating from what he said he would do. The only thing that has happened is all of the potential trade chips that had question marks about their value are playing well and we’ve had no major injuries. Life just isn’t that bad fright now to be a thunder fan.

[Dadouv47]

I understand those who don't want to rebuild but everything is in place for OKC to make a GREAT and QUICK rebuild (2021 and 2022). Every team in the league would dream about making a rebuild with all the pieces we have (probably only NOLA is in a better situation for that).

The two most important picks we have are OKC 2021 and 2022 (Top 14 protected). We already have a nice future star (we hope so at least) so we basically only need to draft one very good young player next to him in order to be able to surround them with good players (which won't be difficult with all the future picks we have).

[spearsy23]

Rebuilds are never a sure thing. More often than not bad teams stay bad and good teams stay good.

[Galloisdaman]

What is kind of cool about this team is even if 1 of the main guys has a off night they usually have 2, 3, or 4 having a good night. They are making people proud. Few gave them a chance after the first week of the season.

[Galloisdaman]

Spoiler:

Because in three years when those win now players are cooked and it is SGA and a bunch of scrubs he's going to get disgruntled quickly and have the ability to get out much faster. Right now OKC has about 7 years to build with SGA. If you ride out CP3 and Gallo then go to crap right before he hits RFA he could, although probably wouldn't, just take the QO and leave OKC with a bottom 5 team after all their first round picks, at least the ones they didn't give up by making the playoffs, end up in the 16-22 range.

Do you think SGA would rather get stomped in the first round for the next 2-3 years or get a few top 5 picks next to him and be a young playoff team with a high ceiling as he enters his second contract? I'm going to guess he would rather get the sucking over with now instead of being told he's stuck with a crap team AFTER he establishes himself as a star and sees other top draft picks in his class going deep in the playoffs.

Even with a few top 5 picks next to him do you think that's going to guarantee success? Does every top 5 draft pick develop into a superstar? Its a big gamble to take. We don't even know what the draft is going to look like in the future and this years draft class is SUPER weak.

We could trade the good players we have like CP3, Adams, Schröder and Gallo and still end up missing on draft picks and SGA leaves anyway. Most of our important draft picks are atleast 3 or 4 years away. When the win now players will be off the books anyway.

Say we trade everybody and tank the rest of the season, who are we going to take that would be worth throwing this season away and killing the unbelievable chemistry this team has? The way this team has played this season has given no indication that they would get stomped in the first round. They've beaten alot of really good teams this year and had alot of very close losses too.

Last year through 45 games this team was 27-18. They traded their superstars, gained a million picks and 45 games through this season their record is almost identical at 26-19. You know that old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it? I feel that applies here. We can have a playoff team until its time to use the draft picks we've acquired and THEN build through the draft. We have what 15 picks? How many players can be on the court at 1 time? We don't need more picks.

Nothing guarantees success but Chris Paul is 34. What is guaranteed is that he and shai wont grow old together. If somehow Sam manages to trade up in the draft and find another really good young talent this year, I’m ok with keeping some of these older guys to develop young guys. However finding guys outside the top 5 is much harder. It’s very unlikely we will be successful rebuilding if we don’t get some picks in the top ten. I think it’s good for fans to go back an read sam’s op ed article again. We will rebuild but we haven’t torn it down yet. Maybe it looks different than last time but it’s for sure coming.

Some of those picks may become low value picks. I think their main value would be in packaging to move up in the draft or packaging to get a player from another team. Picks 18-30 are not in huge demand. That does not mean the occasional pick after 15 does not become a star player. Just that it is more the exception than the rule.

[ThunderBolt]

Some of those picks may become low value picks. I think their main value would be in packaging to move up in the draft or packaging to get a player from another team. Picks 18-30 are not in huge demand. That does not mean the occasional pick after 15 does not become a star player. Just that it is more the exception than the rule.

The most realistic way for okc to get elite talent is through the draft with their own picks. They have the luxury of already having Shai. I think it will be tough to impossible to use their assets to trade for the rest of their core of 3-4 guys to build around. If they hit early on one of their picks, they may be able to trade to get another one. That’s about the best case scenario.

I’ve said all along that the best part of all these picks isn’t that they are likely to be great picks on their own. However if we can get a couple of really good prospects with our own picks, the additional pricks from LAC and Hou give okc the ability to make moves for solid role players. That’s something presti struggled to find and keep with the first core.

[Galloisdaman]

Some of those picks may become low value picks. I think their main value would be in packaging to move up in the draft or packaging to get a player from another team. Picks 18-30 are not in huge demand. That does not mean the occasional pick after 15 does not become a star player. Just that it is more the exception than the rule.

The most realistic way for okc to get elite talent is through the draft with their own picks. They have the luxury of already having Shai. I think it will be tough to impossible to use their assets to trade for the rest of their core of 3-4 guys to build around. If they hit early on one of their picks, they may be able to trade to get another one. That’s about the best case scenario.

I’ve said all along that the best part of all these picks isn’t that they are likely to be great picks on their own. However if we can get a couple of really good prospects with our own picks, the additional pricks from LAC and Hou give okc the ability to make moves for solid role players. That’s something presti struggled to find and keep with the first core.

Everyones definition of elite is different but its not easy to find elite players drafting 15-30. Does it happen sometimes? Yes but I would not count on it because then every team would have a good shot at an elite player every season in the draft.

I think quality over quantity so I would try packaging picks for a better draft pick and or players already in the nba.

[ThunderBolt]

Some of those picks may become low value picks. I think their main value would be in packaging to move up in the draft or packaging to get a player from another team. Picks 18-30 are not in huge demand. That does not mean the occasional pick after 15 does not become a star player. Just that it is more the exception than the rule.

The most realistic way for okc to get elite talent is through the draft with their own picks. They have the luxury of already having Shai. I think it will be tough to impossible to use their assets to trade for the rest of their core of 3-4 guys to build around. If they hit early on one of their picks, they may be able to trade to get another one. That’s about the best case scenario.

I’ve said all along that the best part of all these picks isn’t that they are likely to be great picks on their own. However if we can get a couple of really good prospects with our own picks, the additional pricks from LAC and Hou give okc the ability to make moves for solid role players. That’s something presti struggled to find and keep with the first core.

Everyones definition of elite is different but its not easy to find elite players drafting 15-30. Does it happen sometimes? Yes but I would not count on it because then every team would have a good shot at an elite player every season in the draft.

I agree. That’s why we need to have a year or two we get in to the top ten. Then trade up if necessary. When I say acquire talent “through our own picks” I mean we need to be in the lottery and give ourselves a chance at some point. Tanking is less appealing than in the past because the nba screwed up the lottery percentages. However there just aren’t tons of other options.

Opponents of rebuilding always point out the fact that you may not get the pick or the player may not develop. Those are valid concerns but ignore the issues of building around a 34 year old paired with a 21 year old. Or they fail to come up with a plan on how to get and retain talent to a small market.

I don’t want to be the suns and rebuild forever. However you also run the risk of being the hornets with Kemba walker if you decide to ride out the current roster and go for it this year. You’ve got one guy who is pretty good and a bunch of meh players. A team like Charlotte has struggled from lack of commitment to a direction and admittedly very poor management.

There is more than one way to rebuild but it absolutely must include a way to get elite talent in okc. Guys like schroder and Adams are fine as role players but if that’s the true core, the ceiling will be very low.

[Galloisdaman]

The most realistic way for okc to get elite talent is through the draft with their own picks. They have the luxury of already having Shai. I think it will be tough to impossible to use their assets to trade for the rest of their core of 3-4 guys to build around. If they hit early on one of their picks, they may be able to trade to get another one. That’s about the best case scenario.

I’ve said all along that the best part of all these picks isn’t that they are likely to be great picks on their own. However if we can get a couple of really good prospects with our own picks, the additional pricks from LAC and Hou give okc the ability to make moves for solid role players. That’s something presti struggled to find and keep with the first core.

Everyones definition of elite is different but its not easy to find elite players drafting 15-30. Does it happen sometimes? Yes but I would not count on it because then every team would have a good shot at an elite player every season in the draft.

I agree. That’s why we need to have a year or two we get in to the top ten. Then trade up if necessary. When I say acquire talent “through our own picks” I mean we need to be in the lottery and give ourselves a chance at some point. Tanking is less appealing than in the past because the nba screwed up the lottery percentages. However there just aren’t tons of other options.

Opponents of rebuilding always point out the fact that you may not get the pick or the player may not develop. Those are valid concerns but ignore the issues of building around a 34 year old paired with a 21 year old. Or they fail to come up with a plan on how to get and retain talent to a small market.

I don’t want to be the suns and rebuild forever. However you also run the risk of being the hornets with Kemba walker if you decide to ride out the current roster and go for it this year. You’ve got one guy who is pretty good and a bunch of meh players. A team like Charlotte has struggled from lack of commitment to a direction and admittedly very poor management.

There is more than one way to rebuild but it absolutely must include a way to get elite talent in okc. Guys like schroder and Adams are fine as role players but if that’s the true core, the ceiling will be very low.

That is logical but you have to be pretty lucky for multiple years even drafting in the top 10. I'm not saying it will not work. I'm just saying there have been teams in the top 10 for decades that have missed the boat many times. It is strange that even with todays utra tech and stats we have seen so many bad draft picks in the top 10. Some years there are only a handful of good players. In other years you have injuries, mistakes, etc. Take 2019. How many elite guys do you think will have come out of that draft?

[Kizz Fastfists]

Take 2019. How many elite guys do you think will have come out of that draft?

Technically, it is too early to tell. The point that you need to be bad in the right years, like 2018, and not be an idiot and pass on Luka like Sacramento did is valid. I see two from 2019 in Zion, he had a nice debut, and Morant that are potentially elite. There are some others that might, but those are the two most likely at this point based on what we have seen. It also depends on the standard we are using for elite. Luka is probably going to be the best player of his generation and I still don't know how anyone other then Phoenix even considered passing on him. I only give Phoenix a pass because of Ayton's potential and the rarity of a big man that can do everything. I was clear before that draft I would have taken Luka #1.

This year there doesn't appear to be a Zion, Morant, Ayton, Luka, Trae or SGA. However, keep in mind that SGA is outperforming his draft position. So just because we don't have someone that is considered that good there is potential for Wiseman, Edwards, Hampton, Anthony, etc to become star players. I'm talking about 1-3 out of the draft class not everyone who ends up in the top 5 and identifying them is the tough part. I am pretty sure every draft produces at least one star player. Now finding them and being able to make the moves to get Kawhi Leonard, which was a very good move by the Spurs to identify him and then trade up for him when he wasn't a top 10 pick, or Giannis or getting lucky and the #1 team taking a complete bum over Oladipo or other things does require some luck. However, your best chance to get lucky will always be significantly better picking 4th and not 20th.

[ThunderBolt]

Sekou, PJ Washington and Herro are a few of guys that could end up out performing their draft position.