Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread

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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1001 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:30 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:I'm not understanding what you are proposing. The top 4 protection for Houston is a way to salvage a potentially bad situation. We don't really have win now players for a team like Houston. Something related to this?

Read on Twitter


Not really.I will try to explain better (even if I don't know the right value about removing this kind of protection).

Let's assume the Rockets are a lock to finish with the 7th or 8th record so they have almost 32% or a bit lower of getting a top 4 pick. My question is what is the right value we should offer the Rockets to remove the protection on their pick.

For OKC, we have so many picks that I think it's worth gambling because the risk/reward is pretty good. For Houston it's more difficult obviously, but depending on the offer they make accept because they will have a 70% of winning value for nothing.

So yeah let's say Presti offers the 2024 Houston FRP and another small asset back to Houston to gamble on the 2021 draft. Would you do it? I would. My issue is that probably Houston will ask for more and it's difficult to measure the value of removing the protection because of the uncertainty/luck factor and having such a strong top 5 in this draft.

I assume you mean the 7th or 8th worse record in the league. So this would be after the season has ended but before the lottery. At that point I wouldn't expect either team to make a trade without knowing the exact value of Houston's pick. It would be really foolish for us to give up assets for a pick that we potentially already own. I guess there are always possibilities but I can't come up with a realistic situation where that happens. I don't think there is a known value for this type of trade.

The only way I foresee us getting two top 5 picks without trading Shai is if the Miami pick ends up top 5 alongside our own top 5 pick. As of today, the Miami and Houston picks are both better than our own. Probably need butler and bam to miss extended time for that to last.


I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% chance of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want way too much because a FRP is not close to the potential reward they could get from a top 4 pick.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1002 » by Balkman32 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:37 pm

jambalaya wrote:
NYG wrote:What would you give up for Jarrett Allen and Denver unprotecting their 2023 first round draft pick they already owe you?



What do the Nets want?

I'd offer Bazley, Diallo, a 1st or two. If Allen wants to extend.



Want G Hill? Get one less first or nearly so.

Want some other scrub besides Diallo? Ok, for a scrub.

I dunno, don't really care to try to work out an exact price. But willing to make a fair to good offer? Yeah.


No. We don't know what Baze is and Allen has to get extended in the off season.

Diallo has played pretty well this year. I think we keep Bazley and Diallo and the firsts and see how it plays out.

You might be able to get Allen on the cheap if he is a part of a bigger deal, where the acquiring team isn't interested in paying Allen.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1003 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:
Dadouv47 wrote:
Not really.I will try to explain better (even if I don't know the right value about removing this kind of protection).

Let's assume the Rockets are a lock to finish with the 7th or 8th record so they have almost 32% or a bit lower of getting a top 4 pick. My question is what is the right value we should offer the Rockets to remove the protection on their pick.

For OKC, we have so many picks that I think it's worth gambling because the risk/reward is pretty good. For Houston it's more difficult obviously, but depending on the offer they make accept because they will have a 70% of winning value for nothing.

So yeah let's say Presti offers the 2024 Houston FRP and another small asset back to Houston to gamble on the 2021 draft. Would you do it? I would. My issue is that probably Houston will ask for more and it's difficult to measure the value of removing the protection because of the uncertainty/luck factor and having such a strong top 5 in this draft.

I assume you mean the 7th or 8th worse record in the league. So this would be after the season has ended but before the lottery. At that point I wouldn't expect either team to make a trade without knowing the exact value of Houston's pick. It would be really foolish for us to give up assets for a pick that we potentially already own. I guess there are always possibilities but I can't come up with a realistic situation where that happens. I don't think there is a known value for this type of trade.

The only way I foresee us getting two top 5 picks without trading Shai is if the Miami pick ends up top 5 alongside our own top 5 pick. As of today, the Miami and Houston picks are both better than our own. Probably need butler and bam to miss extended time for that to last.


I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want too much...

When are you suggesting this trade is done? If it's done before the trade deadline then Houston likely isn't locked in to a specific spot. If it's done after the season, then it's going to be after the lottery takes place and we'll know their pick.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1004 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:44 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:

I assume you mean the 7th or 8th worse record in the league. So this would be after the season has ended but before the lottery. At that point I wouldn't expect either team to make a trade without knowing the exact value of Houston's pick. It would be really foolish for us to give up assets for a pick that we potentially already own. I guess there are always possibilities but I can't come up with a realistic situation where that happens. I don't think there is a known value for this type of trade.

The only way I foresee us getting two top 5 picks without trading Shai is if the Miami pick ends up top 5 alongside our own top 5 pick. As of today, the Miami and Houston picks are both better than our own. Probably need butler and bam to miss extended time for that to last.


I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want too much...

When are you suggesting this trade is done? If it's done before the trade deadline then Houston likely isn't locked in to a specific spot. If it's done after the season, then it's going to be after the lottery takes place and we'll know their pick.


Well I was thinking at the trade deadline IF we have a good idea that Houston gonna end most likely between 6 and 10...probably some teams will already be locked for worst 3-4 records in the league
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1005 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:57 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want too much...

When are you suggesting this trade is done? If it's done before the trade deadline then Houston likely isn't locked in to a specific spot. If it's done after the season, then it's going to be after the lottery takes place and we'll know their pick.


Well I was thinking at the trade deadline IF we have a good idea that Houston gonna end most likely between 6 and 10...probably some teams will already be locked for worst 3-4 records in the league

As tight as the west has been the last few years, it's unlikely that the teams are locked in that early. The middle of the pack playoff teams and the lottery teams have all been extremely close to one another that last two years.

The only scenario I see Houston removing a pick protection is for a win now player on a win now Rocket's team. We don't have that player and they aren't that team right now. I'm sure they would like to make the playoffs but this isn't a team that should go for it but squandering more assets. George Hill just doesn't have that much value.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1006 » by retrobro90 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:03 pm

I understand this is unpopular but I wouldn't trade Baze straight up for Allen (let alone adding picks and Diallo and Hill).

I don't see the upside for Jarret with this squad. He's already getting his opportunities from better table setters in Brooklyn and since he's come into the league hasn't extended his range outside the paint or developed any real post game (I know he's 22). Does OKC even improve after that deal? Even if they did are they looking for a marginal (>5 wins) upgrade on a season they want to tank? Meanwhile Bazley has been rapidly improving and is still 20. I think he's got way more upside than Allen does at this point in his career as he's shown he can be a capable ball handler/passer/shooter. Also Diallo is finally unlocking his tools and becoming a valuable rotation player this season. I think Jarret's gonna be a solid starting big man for years to come but I'm sorry I think that's probably all he is.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1007 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:29 pm

retrobro90 wrote:I understand this is unpopular but I wouldn't trade Baze straight up for Allen (let alone adding picks and Diallo and Hill).

I don't see the upside for Jarret with this squad. He's already getting his opportunities from better table setters in Brooklyn and since he's come into the league hasn't extended his range outside the paint or developed any real post game (I know he's 22). Does OKC even improve after that deal? Even if they did are they looking for a marginal (>5 wins) upgrade on a season they want to tank? Meanwhile Bazley has been rapidly improving and is still 20. I think he's got way more upside than Allen does at this point in his career as he's shown he can be a capable ball handler/passer/shooter. Also Diallo is finally unlocking his tools and becoming a valuable rotation player this season. I think Jarret's gonna be a solid starting big man for years to come but I'm sorry I think that's probably all he is.

Is this a rumor? I've disappointed in Bazley's shooting but if he develops, his type of player is a lot harder to find than Allen. If we don't take Mobley, I don't think it's too difficult to find a player like Allen outside the lottery.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1008 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:34 pm

I like Allen but no way I'm trading Bazley for him. Also feels like he's a bit overrated right now so probably gonna have a big contract

I'm ok to trade Diallo for him though :lol:
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1009 » by bbms » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:38 pm

I think our PF/C of the future is Mobley. Worth trading up to number #2 or #3 IMO. He's like Chris Bosh.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1010 » by bbms » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:04 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:
Dadouv47 wrote:
Not really.I will try to explain better (even if I don't know the right value about removing this kind of protection).

Let's assume the Rockets are a lock to finish with the 7th or 8th record so they have almost 32% or a bit lower of getting a top 4 pick. My question is what is the right value we should offer the Rockets to remove the protection on their pick.

For OKC, we have so many picks that I think it's worth gambling because the risk/reward is pretty good. For Houston it's more difficult obviously, but depending on the offer they make accept because they will have a 70% of winning value for nothing.

So yeah let's say Presti offers the 2024 Houston FRP and another small asset back to Houston to gamble on the 2021 draft. Would you do it? I would. My issue is that probably Houston will ask for more and it's difficult to measure the value of removing the protection because of the uncertainty/luck factor and having such a strong top 5 in this draft.

I assume you mean the 7th or 8th worse record in the league. So this would be after the season has ended but before the lottery. At that point I wouldn't expect either team to make a trade without knowing the exact value of Houston's pick. It would be really foolish for us to give up assets for a pick that we potentially already own. I guess there are always possibilities but I can't come up with a realistic situation where that happens. I don't think there is a known value for this type of trade.

The only way I foresee us getting two top 5 picks without trading Shai is if the Miami pick ends up top 5 alongside our own top 5 pick. As of today, the Miami and Houston picks are both better than our own. Probably need butler and bam to miss extended time for that to last.


I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% chance of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want way too much because a FRP is not close to the potential reward they could get from a top 4 pick.


I like this kind of move, but IMO the priority should be relaxing the protection on GSW's pick.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1011 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pm

bbms wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:

I assume you mean the 7th or 8th worse record in the league. So this would be after the season has ended but before the lottery. At that point I wouldn't expect either team to make a trade without knowing the exact value of Houston's pick. It would be really foolish for us to give up assets for a pick that we potentially already own. I guess there are always possibilities but I can't come up with a realistic situation where that happens. I don't think there is a known value for this type of trade.

The only way I foresee us getting two top 5 picks without trading Shai is if the Miami pick ends up top 5 alongside our own top 5 pick. As of today, the Miami and Houston picks are both better than our own. Probably need butler and bam to miss extended time for that to last.


I agree that it's difficult to have any idea of the value of it because I have never seen that kind of trade but also we have a record of future FRPs so I kind of disagree that it would be foolish to try. We have way too many picks and a 30% chance of picking top 4 instead of +/-20 with the Miami pick is huge. But yeah probably Houston would want way too much because a FRP is not close to the potential reward they could get from a top 4 pick.


I like this kind of move, but IMO the priority should be relaxing the protection on GSW's pick.


That's cheaper but not really worth it. Not sure what kind of value we could send to GSW for that. George Hill to GSW doesn't work salary wise and doesn't make sense (and we may get a late FRP for him anyway). Our young players are worth way more (or way less) than removing the protection of that pick.

Just doesn't make sense even if I want that pick to convey. The Minny 2nd should be ''good''
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1012 » by jambalaya » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:10 pm

Jarrett Allen got mentioned here by a visiting poster. There is no explicit active indication of Nets wanting to move him. They could easy want more / different than Bazley.

But fwiw, there is a bit more discussion.

Allen, 42nd ranked on Estimated Plus Minus metric. https://dunksandthrees.com/epm Top quarter on offense and defense.

Bazley, 260th ranked on EPM. BPM estimates at replacement level. 46% efg%, down from last season. 49% ts%, down from last season. Both way below league average. FT rate down 35%. Down to 28% from 3. Assists up some but still low. Turnovers up as well. Steals way down. Defensive rebounding is fine, offensive rebounding very light. Team is almost -7 pts / 100 possessions with him on court. Only Maledon is worse in top 9 of rotation.

I am not that interested in debating a remote hypothetical trade much more than this but Bazley's considered potential should be weighed alongside his current reality. Real trade talk, if it happens, is probably 12-18 months away. He may be worth more then or less.

Allen is pretty likely as good or better than any center they'll have in next 5-7 years. They need to have a PF way better than current Bazley. Be it future Bazley, Roby, Pokusevski or somebody else.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1013 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:46 pm

Well a Harden trade may come sooner than expected. Not sure that's good news for our pick swap
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1014 » by thedoppelganger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:19 pm

Read on Twitter

Was hoping this would drag out until the trade deadline, but seems to be close to happening. Still - don't see any package coming back that puts them in the playoffs this year, so think we've got a great shot of at least landing that pick in the lottery.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1015 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:22 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:Well a Harden trade may come sooner than expected. Not sure that's good news for our pick swap
thedoppelganger wrote:
Read on Twitter

Was hoping this would drag out until the trade deadline, but seems to be close to happening. Still - don't see any package coming back that puts them in the playoffs this year, so think we've got a great shot of at least landing that pick in the lottery.

I don't see how it couldn't help us. I would guess it has to be Philly, right? No way can Houston want Kyrie.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1016 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:22 pm

thedoppelganger wrote:
Read on Twitter

Was hoping this would drag out until the trade deadline, but seems to be close to happening. Still - don't see any package coming back that puts them in the playoffs this year, so think we've got a great shot of at least landing that pick in the lottery.


Won't happen but Simmons to Houston would be the best move for our pick swap this year. Wall/Simmons fit... :crazy: :noway:
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1017 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:24 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:Well a Harden trade may come sooner than expected. Not sure that's good news for our pick swap
thedoppelganger wrote:
Read on Twitter

Was hoping this would drag out until the trade deadline, but seems to be close to happening. Still - don't see any package coming back that puts them in the playoffs this year, so think we've got a great shot of at least landing that pick in the lottery.

I don't see how it couldn't help us. I would guess it has to be Philly, right? No way can Houston want Kyrie.


Harden was playing but no intensity and he didn't care.

If they get some decent players from Brooklyn for example, they could be decent.

Hope they trade Tucker
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1018 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:31 pm

Simmons would be ideal for us. I really like him but there's a decent chance he never plays like a superstar. More chances of Houston being trash in 2024+ when we get their picks and swaps, while they should be able to improve a lot if Brooklyn gives them good role players and tons of picks. Houston floor is lower with Simmons I think...
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1019 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:38 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:Well a Harden trade may come sooner than expected. Not sure that's good news for our pick swap
thedoppelganger wrote:
Read on Twitter

Was hoping this would drag out until the trade deadline, but seems to be close to happening. Still - don't see any package coming back that puts them in the playoffs this year, so think we've got a great shot of at least landing that pick in the lottery.

I don't see how it couldn't help us. I would guess it has to be Philly, right? No way can Houston want Kyrie.


Harden was playing but no intensity and he didn't care.

If they get some decent players from Brooklyn for example, they could be decent.

Hope they trade Tucker

Athletic says offers are from the nets and 76ers. I don’t think they are better with Simmons. What he adds in effort he lacks with fit. He’s good but not as good as Harden. I dont know what the nets can offer. Insured Dinwiddie? Another big man with Allen? AWOL Kyrie? There has to be a third team involved with the nets. The article said four first round picks and three pick swaps. Is that really enough?
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1020 » by thedoppelganger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:40 pm

Read on Twitter

So probably Simmons + 1 of Maxey/Thybulle seems likely, with Tucker gone as well. Wall/Gordon/Thybulle/Simmons/Wood with not much of a bench is pretty underwhelming at first glance

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