Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread

Moderators: Andre Roberstan, ThunderBolt

Dadouv47
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,661
And1: 2,557
Joined: Mar 22, 2015
   

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#121 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:01 pm

What are you willing to give up to get Donovan Mitchell?

I really like him but he has only one year left on his rookie contract and we don't know how the Coronavirus will impact the 2020-2021, so I guess its a tough spot to give a lot of FRP.

On the other hand, we could contend next year if we keep our current roster and add Mitchell.
Kizz Fastfists
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,479
And1: 1,354
Joined: Jun 05, 2014
   

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#122 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:10 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:What are you willing to give up to get Donovan Mitchell?


Nothing Utah would consider to be enough. You would have to start with SGA and picks for the conversation with Utah to even last 5 seconds.
"The biggest enemy of the negro is the white liberal." - Malcolm X
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 13,231
And1: 10,939
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#123 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:11 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:What are you willing to give up to get Donovan Mitchell?

I really like him but he has only one year left on his rookie contract and we don't know how the Coronavirus will impact the 2020-2021, so I guess its a tough spot to give a lot of FRP.

On the other hand, we could contend next year if we keep our current roster and add Mitchell.

I'm not sure I love the fit with Shai but he seems like a guy that Sam would overpay for.
jambalaya
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,451
And1: 236
Joined: Feb 01, 2005

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#124 » by jambalaya » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:24 pm

I would not pay high for Mitchell.

RPM estimate is barely positive. His luck adjusted RAPM is almost -1.

He was just ok in 1st playoffs and horrible in his 2nd.
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#125 » by getrichordie » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:16 am

jambalaya wrote:I would not pay high for Mitchell.

RPM estimate is barely positive. His luck adjusted RAPM is almost -1.

He was just ok in 1st playoffs and horrible in his 2nd.


He's overrated. No thanks. We will regret it when he wants max.
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#126 » by getrichordie » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:34 pm

Here's a few guys I think Presti should consider targeting in FA/trades...

guards

carter-williams, m. (ufa)
smith, z. (via trade)
nowell, j. (via trade)

wings

jackson, jo. (ufa)
jones jr., d. (ufa)
harkless, m. (ufa)
holiday, ju. (ufa)

bigs

hernangomez, w. (ufa)
zizic, a. (ufa)
allen, j. (via trade)
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
thor19
Junior
Posts: 307
And1: 40
Joined: Jan 18, 2017
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#127 » by thor19 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:57 pm

getrichordie wrote:Here's a few guys I think Presti should consider targeting in FA/trades...

guards

carter-williams, m. (ufa)
smith, z. (via trade)
nowell, j. (via trade)

wings

jackson, jo. (ufa)
jones jr., d. (ufa)
harkless, m. (ufa)
holiday, ju. (ufa)

bigs

hernangomez, w. (ufa)
zizic, a. (ufa)
allen, j. (via trade)

Another guy I think is aaron gordon
thor19
Junior
Posts: 307
And1: 40
Joined: Jan 18, 2017
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#128 » by thor19 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:12 pm

thor19 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Here's a few guys I think Presti should consider targeting in FA/trades...

guards

carter-williams, m. (ufa)
smith, z. (via trade)
nowell, j. (via trade)

wings

jackson, jo. (ufa)
jones jr., d. (ufa)
harkless, m. (ufa)
holiday, ju. (ufa)

bigs

hernangomez, w. (ufa)
zizic, a. (ufa)
allen, j. (via trade)

Another guy I think is aaron gordon

Also joe harris, dario saric, meyers leonard and k olynk
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#129 » by getrichordie » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:20 pm

thor19 wrote:
thor19 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Here's a few guys I think Presti should consider targeting in FA/trades...

guards

carter-williams, m. (ufa)
smith, z. (via trade)
nowell, j. (via trade)

wings

jackson, jo. (ufa)
jones jr., d. (ufa)
harkless, m. (ufa)
holiday, ju. (ufa)

bigs

hernangomez, w. (ufa)
zizic, a. (ufa)
allen, j. (via trade)

Another guy I think is aaron gordon

Also joe harris, dario saric, meyers leonard and k olynk


Leonard almost made my list. Just wondering how much he gets paid. Not a fan of Saric or Gordon. I don't think Harris fits Presti's vision. I like Olynyk as well. Forgot about him.
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
thor19
Junior
Posts: 307
And1: 40
Joined: Jan 18, 2017
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#130 » by thor19 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:04 am

getrichordie wrote:
thor19 wrote:
thor19 wrote:Another guy I think is aaron gordon

Also joe harris, dario saric, meyers leonard and k olynk


Leonard almost made my list. Just wondering how much he gets paid. Not a fan of Saric or Gordon. I don't think Harris fits Presti's vision. I like Olynyk as well. Forgot about him.

I say Harris if we dont sign Gallo , also Gordon I think in orlando dont utilize him the correct way even we can get a supersmall lineup with gordon at the 5
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#131 » by getrichordie » Mon May 11, 2020 6:00 pm

How much does a Ferguson move up in this draft from #25? What about from #52?
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
jambalaya
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,451
And1: 236
Joined: Feb 01, 2005

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#132 » by jambalaya » Tue May 12, 2020 7:01 pm

Still on draft board when Presti took Ferguson: J Allen, Anunoby, D White, Kuzma, J Hart, others.

Still on board when he took Diallo: Melton, Mykhailuk, KBP, Milton.

Fwiw.

Who would want Ferguson? I dunno. Maybe Cavs, Hornets or Nuggets? Probably not paying much value, if any, all things considered. Might have to pay them to take.
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#133 » by getrichordie » Tue May 12, 2020 10:50 pm

jambalaya wrote:Still on draft board when Presti took Ferguson: J Allen, Anunoby, D White, Kuzma, J Hart, others.

Still on board when he took Diallo: Melton, Mykhailuk, KBP, Milton.

Fwiw.

Who would want Ferguson? I dunno. Maybe Cavs, Hornets or Nuggets? Probably not paying much value, if any, all things considered. Might have to pay them to take.


I'd say Allen and Anunoby were clear misses. I think I liked Derrick White coming out more than most, but he doesn't really fit Presti's M.O. I really think Presti was trying to draft for defensive upside with Westbrook being point, so I think Hart was out of the picture because of Ferguson's tools, but yeah that is kind of a miss with a team chasing a championship.

Hornets need 2-guard prospects like they need bigs, IMO. I think that is very doable.
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 63,636
And1: 47,550
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#134 » by bondom34 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:06 pm

I'd guess you may have to pay to dump him, he was a Presti hometown pick, hated it then and still do. He wasn't even projected as a good defender, just a "tools" guy like most picks. If they wanted a defender (which is odd to blame on Westbrook), take OG who was actually a good defender.

Given the likely cap drop, teams will probably know they want to shed money too.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#135 » by getrichordie » Wed May 13, 2020 2:25 am

Well Westbrook was known for playing some o’lay (sp?) defense at times so I don’t think it is that odd. I don’t blame him with the load he carried, but still.
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 63,636
And1: 47,550
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#136 » by bondom34 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:29 am

Sure, which wouldn't explain why you're drafting the guy who might be a good defender in a few years instead of the guy who was projected to be an instant impact defender when you have an aging point guard. Or why you did the same with Roberson, or any number of other picks.

Basically if you were picking someone to cover up defense, you take OG. If you're not, you take someone else. Ferguson wasn't projected to be even in the NBA for a few years and not a good defender. Arguing they picked Ferguson in any way because of Westbrook makes no sense. He was too small to defend, not an instant impact player, and didn't have any tools to do anything on offense. It's a classic Presti pick of taking a guy with a bunch of weird "toolsy" traits and hoping he figures it out.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/terrance-ferguson/

Comparison of Terrence Ross, a notably bad defender

Against bigger guards and wings, he allows his man to go right through him most times without showing much resistance … He also can be too upright, which somewhat mitigates his lateral quickness and athleticism … Even though he is competitive with big men down low on switches, he is too thin to be a true threat when defending them


https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/

Again compared to Ross

He’s lean and struggles defensively to contain thicker, stronger players.
Lacks awareness defending off-ball; loses track of his man or takes awkward angles fighting through screens.


Oh and my favorit:

https://hardwoodblues.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/studying-abroad-2017/

Saving my hottest takes for last, I probably wouldn’t even waste a draft pick on Terrance Ferguson, a consensus first-rounder. Everything past Ferguson’s age and physical profile is a red flag: Prime Prep, weak FIBA stats, couldn’t remember his short-list of schools at the McDonald’s game, commitment to/withdrawal from Arizona, terrible in the Australian NBL, incurred a 2-game suspension for punching an opponent. Ferguson is dead last in DMX and there are any number of non-prospects who would grade out better. I would bet against him panning out.



Its almost like he was a Prest-type pick who was a local kid, despite clearly lacking NBA ready ability or the ability to defend.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
Kizz Fastfists
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,479
And1: 1,354
Joined: Jun 05, 2014
   

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#137 » by Kizz Fastfists » Wed May 13, 2020 2:40 am

OG was the miss. He was actually the expected pick. He was a top defender and had shown improvement in his 3pt shooting before he went down with an injury. I didn't want OG because I thought his 3pt shooting wasn't good enough to be 3&D guy. His freshman 40% was on 29 shots and could easily have been a fluke and on higher volume he was only shooting 31% when he got hurt. Presti outsmarted himself by going with TFerg instead of the obvious pick. I'm not critical of the pick as I would have done the same thing and I'm not going to be critical of Presti for doing something I thought was smart in the moment because it didn't work out. I'm aware that I'm in the minority in liking the pick at the time.

I hope that with all his court issues and gf/custody stuff worked out he'll take the step forward next year I thought he would take this year. He has to be more aggressive on offense and get back to improving on his shooting. The 36% from 3 his second season looked like he was headed in the right direction. I've talked to a guy who played against him in high school and he didn't make me happy by telling me that while he was clearly the best player at the tournament he wasn't aggressive even in high school and they were surprised he ended up with as many points as he did. That does make me question some of my previous views on him because if he is just going to wait for the ball to find him then he isn't going to get far in the NBA unless he becomes a Roberson level defender while shooting good percentages on his low volume.
"The biggest enemy of the negro is the white liberal." - Malcolm X
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#138 » by getrichordie » Wed May 13, 2020 3:06 am

Spoiler:
bondom34 wrote:Sure, which wouldn't explain why you're drafting the guy who might be a good defender in a few years instead of the guy who was projected to be an instant impact defender when you have an aging point guard. Or why you did the same with Roberson, or any number of other picks.

Basically if you were picking someone to cover up defense, you take OG. If you're not, you take someone else. Ferguson wasn't projected to be even in the NBA for a few years and not a good defender. Arguing they picked Ferguson in any way because of Westbrook makes no sense. He was too small to defend, not an instant impact player, and didn't have any tools to do anything on offense. It's a classic Presti pick of taking a guy with a bunch of weird "toolsy" traits and hoping he figures it out.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/terrance-ferguson/

Comparison of Terrence Ross, a notably bad defender

Against bigger guards and wings, he allows his man to go right through him most times without showing much resistance … He also can be too upright, which somewhat mitigates his lateral quickness and athleticism … Even though he is competitive with big men down low on switches, he is too thin to be a true threat when defending them


https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/

Again compared to Ross

He’s lean and struggles defensively to contain thicker, stronger players.
Lacks awareness defending off-ball; loses track of his man or takes awkward angles fighting through screens.


Oh and my favorit:

https://hardwoodblues.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/studying-abroad-2017/

Saving my hottest takes for last, I probably wouldn’t even waste a draft pick on Terrance Ferguson, a consensus first-rounder. Everything past Ferguson’s age and physical profile is a red flag: Prime Prep, weak FIBA stats, couldn’t remember his short-list of schools at the McDonald’s game, commitment to/withdrawal from Arizona, terrible in the Australian NBL, incurred a 2-game suspension for punching an opponent. Ferguson is dead last in DMX and there are any number of non-prospects who would grade out better. I would bet against him panning out.



Its almost like he was a Prest-type pick who was a local kid, despite clearly lacking NBA ready ability or the ability to defend.


I'm not agreeing with the pick at all, I was simply trying to convey what Presti might have been thinking when taking Ferguson. It's not that deep.

getrichordie wrote: I really think Presti was trying to draft for defensive upside with Westbrook being point, so I think Hart was out of the picture because of Ferguson's tools
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 63,636
And1: 47,550
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#139 » by bondom34 » Wed May 13, 2020 3:13 am

getrichordie wrote:
Spoiler:
bondom34 wrote:Sure, which wouldn't explain why you're drafting the guy who might be a good defender in a few years instead of the guy who was projected to be an instant impact defender when you have an aging point guard. Or why you did the same with Roberson, or any number of other picks.

Basically if you were picking someone to cover up defense, you take OG. If you're not, you take someone else. Ferguson wasn't projected to be even in the NBA for a few years and not a good defender. Arguing they picked Ferguson in any way because of Westbrook makes no sense. He was too small to defend, not an instant impact player, and didn't have any tools to do anything on offense. It's a classic Presti pick of taking a guy with a bunch of weird "toolsy" traits and hoping he figures it out.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/terrance-ferguson/

Comparison of Terrence Ross, a notably bad defender

Against bigger guards and wings, he allows his man to go right through him most times without showing much resistance … He also can be too upright, which somewhat mitigates his lateral quickness and athleticism … Even though he is competitive with big men down low on switches, he is too thin to be a true threat when defending them


https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/

Again compared to Ross

He’s lean and struggles defensively to contain thicker, stronger players.
Lacks awareness defending off-ball; loses track of his man or takes awkward angles fighting through screens.


Oh and my favorit:

https://hardwoodblues.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/studying-abroad-2017/

Saving my hottest takes for last, I probably wouldn’t even waste a draft pick on Terrance Ferguson, a consensus first-rounder. Everything past Ferguson’s age and physical profile is a red flag: Prime Prep, weak FIBA stats, couldn’t remember his short-list of schools at the McDonald’s game, commitment to/withdrawal from Arizona, terrible in the Australian NBL, incurred a 2-game suspension for punching an opponent. Ferguson is dead last in DMX and there are any number of non-prospects who would grade out better. I would bet against him panning out.



Its almost like he was a Prest-type pick who was a local kid, despite clearly lacking NBA ready ability or the ability to defend.


I'm not agreeing with the pick at all, I was simply trying to convey what Presti might have been thinking when taking Ferguson. It's not that deep.

getrichordie wrote: I really think Presti was trying to draft for defensive upside with Westbrook being point, so I think Hart was out of the picture because of Ferguson's tools

So he was drafting someone who didn't seem likely to be as good a defender as the guy who he didn't pick because of an aging point guard?

That still makes no sense at all. If he wanted defensive upside he'd take OG. Or honestly quite a few other players instead of the skinny guy who didn't look like a good defender. It was a classic guy who had no discernible skills Presti pick.

Hart was projected as a better defender:

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/
Versatile defender and active rebounder, winning many 50-50 balls.


Compared to Wes Matthews.

There isn't an excuse for this one other than greatly misjudging Ferguson, him being local, and fitting the mold of guys Presti's taken for like 8 years.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,390
And1: 1,787
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#140 » by getrichordie » Wed May 13, 2020 3:21 am

bondom34 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Spoiler:
bondom34 wrote:Sure, which wouldn't explain why you're drafting the guy who might be a good defender in a few years instead of the guy who was projected to be an instant impact defender when you have an aging point guard. Or why you did the same with Roberson, or any number of other picks.

Basically if you were picking someone to cover up defense, you take OG. If you're not, you take someone else. Ferguson wasn't projected to be even in the NBA for a few years and not a good defender. Arguing they picked Ferguson in any way because of Westbrook makes no sense. He was too small to defend, not an instant impact player, and didn't have any tools to do anything on offense. It's a classic Presti pick of taking a guy with a bunch of weird "toolsy" traits and hoping he figures it out.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/terrance-ferguson/

Comparison of Terrence Ross, a notably bad defender



https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/

Again compared to Ross



Oh and my favorit:

https://hardwoodblues.wordpress.com/2017/05/05/studying-abroad-2017/



Its almost like he was a Prest-type pick who was a local kid, despite clearly lacking NBA ready ability or the ability to defend.


I'm not agreeing with the pick at all, I was simply trying to convey what Presti might have been thinking when taking Ferguson. It's not that deep.

getrichordie wrote: I really think Presti was trying to draft for defensive upside with Westbrook being point, so I think Hart was out of the picture because of Ferguson's tools

So he was drafting someone who didn't seem likely to be as good a defender as the guy who he didn't pick because of an aging point guard?

That still makes no sense at all. If he wanted defensive upside he'd take OG. Or honestly quite a few other players instead of the skinny guy who didn't look like a good defender. It was a classic guy who had no discernible skills Presti pick.


I agree that it doesn't make sense. Hindsight is always 20/20 and maybe OG's injury had something to do with his evaluation, so I can't answer as to why Presti definitively selected Ferguson. The only thing I can think of is tools. We know Presti loves his athletes so it fits his M.O. Maybe he thought he would get stronger or provided more of a 3&D game than Anunoby did. No idea. Simply speculating as to why he chose Ferguson.
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
[twitter] @thunderdustin

Return to Oklahoma City Thunder