Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread

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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1321 » by Devilanche » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:22 pm

Balkman32 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:
Devilanche wrote:This is correct .

Keeping the TPEs only works if we have more in TPE than cap once we sign whoever is our first rounder for next draft. My understanding is that the draft picks cap hold all doesn’t count against TPEs . If I’m incorrect then it doesn’t make sense to hold the TPEs over cap

Got it. Thanks.


I don't think this would restrict the Thunder in making an offer. I wonder if Presti is willing to sign a guy to an offer sheet this offseason. or if the plan to stink, prioritizes an offer sheet to a Ball or Collins.

One thing to note the Thunder 2022 FRP is owed to ATL if the picks falls outside the protected range of the Lottery.

Emoni Bates will probably be the #1 pick in the 2022 draft. The Thunder should try to load up on the lottery balls.

There are 27 games left this season with next year looking like another tank. That just leaves 109 games & 15 month until this team is putting its all on the line to built a team that can contend for a decade.


Depending on how the draft goes , is a core of SGA, Dort, Theo, Jerome, Kenrich, Roby bad enough for a top 5 picks in the 2022 draft ? If not who can we move ? Jerome - Dort - Theo / Kenrich / Roby ?

Poku , Bazely , Moses , 2021 draft picks are probably inconsistent enough for next year . Unless any take another leap or the draft picks are top 5 picks
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1322 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:04 pm

Devilanche wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:Got it. Thanks.


I don't think this would restrict the Thunder in making an offer. I wonder if Presti is willing to sign a guy to an offer sheet this offseason. or if the plan to stink, prioritizes an offer sheet to a Ball or Collins.

One thing to note the Thunder 2022 FRP is owed to ATL if the picks falls outside the protected range of the Lottery.

Emoni Bates will probably be the #1 pick in the 2022 draft. The Thunder should try to load up on the lottery balls.

There are 27 games left this season with next year looking like another tank. That just leaves 109 games & 15 month until this team is putting its all on the line to built a team that can contend for a decade.


Depending on how the draft goes , is a core of SGA, Dort, Theo, Jerome, Kenrich, Roby bad enough for a top 5 picks in the 2022 draft ? If not who can we move ? Jerome - Dort - Theo / Kenrich / Roby ?

Poku , Bazely , Moses , 2021 draft picks are probably inconsistent enough for next year . Unless any take another leap or the draft picks are top 5 picks


For sure. I hope our young guys keep improving (mostly Shai) but we badly overperformed and won a lot of close games and it should be easier to rebuld next season.

Think many teams/players aren't giving 100% because the calendar is crazy this season so it gave us a better chance to beat some good teams.

But with the new lottery odds, I don't mind signing John Collins and get a better record...
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1323 » by Devilanche » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:35 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
Devilanche wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
I don't think this would restrict the Thunder in making an offer. I wonder if Presti is willing to sign a guy to an offer sheet this offseason. or if the plan to stink, prioritizes an offer sheet to a Ball or Collins.

One thing to note the Thunder 2022 FRP is owed to ATL if the picks falls outside the protected range of the Lottery.

Emoni Bates will probably be the #1 pick in the 2022 draft. The Thunder should try to load up on the lottery balls.

There are 27 games left this season with next year looking like another tank. That just leaves 109 games & 15 month until this team is putting its all on the line to built a team that can contend for a decade.


Depending on how the draft goes , is a core of SGA, Dort, Theo, Jerome, Kenrich, Roby bad enough for a top 5 picks in the 2022 draft ? If not who can we move ? Jerome - Dort - Theo / Kenrich / Roby ?

Poku , Bazely , Moses , 2021 draft picks are probably inconsistent enough for next year . Unless any take another leap or the draft picks are top 5 picks


For sure. I hope our young guys keep improving (mostly Shai) but we badly overperformed and won a lot of close games and it should be easier to rebuld next season.

Think many teams/players aren't giving 100% because the calendar is crazy this season so it gave us a better chance to beat some good teams.

But with the new lottery odds, I don't mind signing John Collins and get a better record...

If that core improved more then the chance of us winning more games increases exponentially which makes top 5 pick hard to get . Today i would peg their worth as below to a team trying to get home court in the playoff
SGA - 1st or 2nd option
Dort - 5th starter
Kenrich - 7th / 8th man
Theo / Jerome / Roby - rotation player ? Your 9th/10th man if not then your 11th man. Someone who will step into the rotation of injury to others .

If they are making the next step up the team get a lot better faster . The inconsistent trio (Poku / Bazely / Moses - to be fair he has been consistent but just haven’t played long enough to be considered consistent) all have the chance to enter that rotation player status 9th/10th man as well .

Add in one vet as a starter ( think Low 20s minutes starter) and one lotto draft pick as a 5th starter/first off the bench role and this team might just play themselves into a middle of the lotto pick for 2022.

Of course this is assuming everything pans out but I’m not willing to bet against the team with how this season has played out so far.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1324 » by cjmcallist » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:24 am

These 25 games will be very telling for next year.

After watching us play the Wolves, Rockets, Et al., I think just our organizational excellence is probably going to keep us out of the top 3 - simply because of consistency in performance and effort.

I think we have to shoot for this year. Pay extra to move up if needed. Then take what we get in the 2022 draft and sign/trade for someone in 2023 off-season.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1325 » by jake_swivel » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:50 am

So Horford’s contract had a stipulation that the final year is guaranteed for only $14 million, but if the 76ers make the finals, it becomes guaranteed for $19 million. Is that stipulation still in effect even though he was traded?

Also, why do trade exceptions matter when you’re as far under the cap as okc?
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1326 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:01 am

jake_swivel wrote:So Horford’s contract had a stipulation that the final year is guaranteed for only $14 million, but if the 76ers make the finals, it becomes guaranteed for $19 million. Is that stipulation still in effect even though he was traded?

Hoopshype says he gets the bonus if his team makes the finals whereas sportstrac says Philly but it references and old tweet by Bobby Marks. It sounds like it is still in effect if his team makes the finals.
https://hoopshype.com/player/al-horford/salary/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1327 » by jake_swivel » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:17 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
Hoopshype says he gets the bonus if his team makes the finals whereas sportstrac says Philly but it references and old tweet by Bobby Marks. It sounds like it is still in effect if his team makes the finals.
https://hoopshype.com/player/al-horford/salary/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/


Badass. I’d think that would make him considerably more tradeable this summer. But I also am not sure it makes him more tradeable to a decent team which Presti seems to like to do with well respected players. Seems more likely the cavs (love) or the Kings (hield) would be more likely to attach assets than a decent team.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1328 » by Dn4sty » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:19 am

I think that if they find themselves able to get Cade in this draft, then making some moves to add to this team seems like a legitimate option. Adding at least one of Lonzo/Collins (maybe both) might be the next step as they would likely be too good to tank if they just ran it back with basically the same roster but with the addition of Cade.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1329 » by cjmcallist » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:01 pm

jake_swivel wrote:So Horford’s contract had a stipulation that the final year is guaranteed for only $14 million, but if the 76ers make the finals, it becomes guaranteed for $19 million. Is that stipulation still in effect even though he was traded?

Also, why do trade exceptions matter when you’re as far under the cap as okc?

TPEs can be held against the team's cap number, just like a player's contract. The reason that this matters: rules for teams that are "over the cap" are different than rules for teams "under the cap".

So, a team and use their TPEs to operate as a team "over the cap" even though their actual salaries are below the cap line.

In OKC's case, even though the actual salaries are so far under the cap line, we can keep the TPEs to operate as a team over the cap - taking advantage of the rules and exceptions available to teams that are "over the cap".

But, if we sign a FA or make an offer to a RFA, we have to have the cap space available before we make that offer. Therefore, we would have to renounce those TPEs to release that cap space and put us back under the cap to make an offer.

Hopefully that makes sense? Also, someone correct me if anything I said was wrong.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1330 » by cjmcallist » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:04 pm

Dn4sty wrote:I think that if they find themselves able to get Cade in this draft, then making some moves to add to this team seems like a legitimate option. Adding at least one of Lonzo/Collins (maybe both) might be the next step as they would likely be too good to tank if they just ran it back with basically the same roster but with the addition of Cade.

I agree. I wouldn't limit it to just Cade either. If Presti gets his guy (at 2, 3, 5, 8), he should bet that it will work out and add talent via FA or RFA, or trade.

If he doesn't get his guy, different plan I think.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1331 » by jake_swivel » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:12 pm

Spoiler:
cjmcallist wrote:
TPEs can be held against the team's cap number, just like a player's contract. The reason that this matters: rules for teams that are "over the cap" are different than rules for teams "under the cap".

So, a team and use their TPEs to operate as a team "over the cap" even though their actual salaries are below the cap line.

In OKC's case, even though the actual salaries are so far under the cap line, we can keep the TPEs to operate as a team over the cap - taking advantage of the rules and exceptions available to teams that are "over the cap".

But, if we sign a FA or make an offer to a RFA, we have to have the cap space available before we make that offer. Therefore, we would have to renounce those TPEs to release that cap space and put us back under the cap to make an offer.

Hopefully that makes sense? Also, someone correct me if anything I said was wrong.


Perfect sense. Appreciate the explanation.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1332 » by Devilanche » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:48 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
Perfect sense. Appreciate the explanation.

A few things that I don’t believe was covered earlier .

1)I believe we can arrange a S&T into an existing TPE so if there’s anyone that presti really wants and he willing to give up a first , second or some combo of them , he can arrange with the outgoing team
2) let’s say our total salary before trade starts is at 40m and the salary floor is 80m while cap number is at 100m while luxury tax is 120m . Without TPEs any team at cap only got MLE/MMLE and BAE to sign players but with TPEs , OKC if say we have cumulative TPE of 75m can exceed the cap to 115m .
Drawbacks - salary matching , it’s just 100k over TPEs not the usual salary matching if we are using players for trades
Plus point - we can withhold the Ariza and George Hill TPEs until midseason trade deadline which is roughly 12m and 10m overall. This means if we take on the contract at midseason it will count as 12m and 10m against the cap but at least half of them will already be paid aka ownership is only on the hook for up to 6m in salary and 5m in salary respectively . You save ownership money if you use these 2 later on in the season in an effort to get to salary floor. If we are taking players off luxury tax team into TPEs they reduce their tax bill and will probably give us minor asset and some cash to cover some part of the remaining salary.

Reality : some of the TPE will expire and remain unused
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1333 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:35 pm

Dn4sty wrote:I think that if they find themselves able to get Cade in this draft, then making some moves to add to this team seems like a legitimate option. Adding at least one of Lonzo/Collins (maybe both) might be the next step as they would likely be too good to tank if they just ran it back with basically the same roster but with the addition of Cade.

I have a hard time believing that OKC will be the only teams pursuing these guys this summer and that they would choose OKC has the team with whom they sign an offer sheet. It seems probably that the knicks are going to go after one of these guys.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1334 » by jake_swivel » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:29 am

Who says no:

Golden State:
Draymond
Wiggins
Minnesota's 2022 unprotected 1st

OKC:
Horford
Kenrich
Roby
Jerome

I don't like the trade much for either side, but I'm just trying to think of ways to burn capspace and acquire high level assets.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1335 » by Woerzboerg » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:26 am

jake_swivel wrote:Who says no:

Golden State:
Draymond
Wiggins
Minnesota's 2022 unprotected 1st

OKC:
Horford
Kenrich
Roby
Jerome

I don't like the trade much for either side, but I'm just trying to think of ways to burn capspace and acquire high level assets.


I see the point for Wiggins, but why would GS give up on Draymond?
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1336 » by jake_swivel » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:56 am

Woerzboerg wrote:I see the point for Wiggins, but why would GS give up on Draymond?


He's averaging 6 points and 6 rebounds and is owed $77 million over the next 3 years. He's getting slower and the league is getting faster. When you're undersized and chubby, age has a way of sneaking up a little faster on you. But the point is mostly that GS has $55 million outgoing next year and only $34 incoming.

I actually think both teams probably reject this trade, which is a special type of bad trade :)

I'm not even sure there is much of an upside for GS outside of replacing overpriced players with underpaid role-players. They still would only have their MLE to spend. It would just save them a bunch of repeater luxury tax. Maybe add in the Heat pick?

But again, I'm just trying to figure out a way to utilize capspace.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1337 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:37 pm

jake_swivel wrote:Who says no:

Golden State:
Draymond
Wiggins
Minnesota's 2022 unprotected 1st

OKC:
Horford
Kenrich
Roby
Jerome

I don't like the trade much for either side, but I'm just trying to think of ways to burn capspace and acquire high level assets.


Gs says so, easily. The Minny pick is too much...they won't give up such a great asset to dump salaries.

Like the idea of Horford in Gs though
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1338 » by jake_swivel » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:24 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:Who says no:

Golden State:
Draymond
Wiggins
Minnesota's 2022 unprotected 1st

OKC:
Horford
Kenrich
Roby
Jerome

I don't like the trade much for either side, but I'm just trying to think of ways to burn capspace and acquire high level assets.


Gs says so, easily. The Minny pick is too much...they won't give up such a great asset to dump salaries.

Like the idea of Horford in Gs though


It’s a great asset. I bet it’s not as great if it doesn’t convey this year. They’re clearly tanking hard. Russell hasn’t played really at all and KAT didn’t play much this year either. Season was over when he started up. Flip’s son wasn’t an NBA level coach. They’ll have another high level draft pick alongside Bennett. I don’t think they’ll tank a third year in a row or KAT will want out. I bet that pick ends up being 7th or lower.

But yeah, W’s probably say no.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1339 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:45 pm

Woerzboerg wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:Who says no:

Golden State:
Draymond
Wiggins
Minnesota's 2022 unprotected 1st

OKC:
Horford
Kenrich
Roby
Jerome

I don't like the trade much for either side, but I'm just trying to think of ways to burn capspace and acquire high level assets.


I see the point for Wiggins, but why would GS give up on Draymond?


I think Myers will be loyal to a fault to Steph, Klay and Draymond. They've kind of earned it.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#1340 » by cjmcallist » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:22 am

Anyone listen to the Windhorst pod re: Thunder?

It really put a bug in my head. Nothing happens until the lottery of course. But, he proposed that if we don’t get a top 5 pick - SGA might be on the block to move us up into the top 3.

I might not be opposed to that. Would require more than just the pick of course. But, I could get see that happening.

Anyone else think that’s crazy? Or just premature until the lottery.

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