Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread

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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#961 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:28 pm

retrobro90 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:I kind of wonder about Lonzo though. Not saying I would or wouldn't sign him to an offer sheet but I think his market is gonna be well below the max despite having a more valuable skill set than Collins imo.


It kind of feels like New Orleans will have to keep him unless kyra Lewis breaks in to the rotation.


Kira could, NAW could, lots of PG free agents too (Dinwiddie, Rose, Conley, Lowry etc). They obviously weren't able to agree on an extension with Zo so it's at least a fluid situation right now.

Other than his dad, I’ve always liked lonzo. Lavar is not in the picture too much anymore. Lonzo seems to have fixed his shooting form. If we end up with Kuminga, Mobley, or Green then I could see him being a good fit. I would like to see him stay healthy this year.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#962 » by retrobro90 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:09 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
It kind of feels like New Orleans will have to keep him unless kyra Lewis breaks in to the rotation.


Kira could, NAW could, lots of PG free agents too (Dinwiddie, Rose, Conley, Lowry etc). They obviously weren't able to agree on an extension with Zo so it's at least a fluid situation right now.

Other than his dad, I’ve always liked lonzo. Lavar is not in the picture too much anymore. Lonzo seems to have fixed his shooting form. If we end up with Kuminga, Mobley, or Green then I could see him being a good fit. I would like to see him stay healthy this year.


I think his 3 has shown some slight improvement but across the board from a production standpoint he's basically been the same guy since his rookie year. I don't mean that to say I think he's a bad player (I think he's a good player) but I'd probably wager he's mostly a finished product 4 years in. The improvement areas he needs to become a max level guy are hard obstacles to overcome given his foundation (finish at the rim/FT line with good volume and efficiency). My point about Lonzo is more about opting to use that cap space for a cheaper decent floor spacing/great passing/good switch defending point guard over a more expensive great vertical spacer/adequate shooting/poor defending big man in Collins.

GROD does have a decent point about OKC's upcoming cap space though (not sure how he got to that 70mil figure but I'm not a cap guru) so I think offer sheets can be a valuable tool. However, let's just say hypothetically the choice came down to throwing a max or near max offer at Collins or absorbing Tobias' near max money in exchange for picks. I'd rather take Tobi. Think Harris is probably the better player and a better culture fit and they'd get picks for the pleasure of overpaying a poor defensive PF. Neither option gets them all that closer to being a contender IMO but both options would hamstring that cap space over the next 3-4 years.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#963 » by spearsy23 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:36 pm

The problem with lonzo is the same problem with rubio. Maximizing their individual talents is counterproductive to maximizing the team's.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#964 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:23 pm

spearsy23 wrote:The problem with lonzo is the same problem with rubio. Maximizing their individual talents is counterproductive to maximizing the team's.

I always thought the issue with Rubio is his lack of shooting. If Lonzo proves his three point shooting is for real, I think he’s a solid well rounded player on a contending team provided the contract is reasonable.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#965 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:07 pm

retrobro90 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
Kira could, NAW could, lots of PG free agents too (Dinwiddie, Rose, Conley, Lowry etc). They obviously weren't able to agree on an extension with Zo so it's at least a fluid situation right now.

Other than his dad, I’ve always liked lonzo. Lavar is not in the picture too much anymore. Lonzo seems to have fixed his shooting form. If we end up with Kuminga, Mobley, or Green then I could see him being a good fit. I would like to see him stay healthy this year.


I think his 3 has shown some slight improvement but across the board from a production standpoint he's basically been the same guy since his rookie year. I don't mean that to say I think he's a bad player (I think he's a good player) but I'd probably wager he's mostly a finished product 4 years in. The improvement areas he needs to become a max level guy are hard obstacles to overcome given his foundation (finish at the rim/FT line with good volume and efficiency). My point about Lonzo is more about opting to use that cap space for a cheaper decent floor spacing/great passing/good switch defending point guard over a more expensive great vertical spacer/adequate shooting/poor defending big man in Collins.

GROD does have a decent point about OKC's upcoming cap space though (not sure how he got to that 70mil figure but I'm not a cap guru) so I think offer sheets can be a valuable tool. However, let's just say hypothetically the choice came down to throwing a max or near max offer at Collins or absorbing Tobias' near max money in exchange for picks. I'd rather take Tobi. Think Harris is probably the better player and a better culture fit and they'd get picks for the pleasure of overpaying a poor defensive PF. Neither option gets them all that closer to being a contender IMO but both options would hamstring that cap space over the next 3-4 years.

I agree. I don’t think Lonzo is a max player. I think the hope for Lonzo would be that he would benefit by being in a stable situation. He’s been in drastically different situations every year with being a rookie with high expectations, having lebron join his team, traded New Orleans, and now with a new coach. He’ll likely never be a superstar but it’s not crazy to think some of this has slowed development.

As far as Collins, I think the hope is that he continues to develop after his extension. Just in general I think a lot of people assume that when guys get their first rookie extension, they are finished product. Lots of these guys make progress afterwards. Jalen Brown was considered a really bad contract by a lot of people. Oladipo was too to an extent. All that being said, the more I think about the Collins situation I think it’s best to pass.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#966 » by Hfalorthorrin » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:32 pm

Since Spencer Dinwiddie partially tore his ACL. Do you think it is a good idea to trade for him?

Something like:
  • George Hill
  • Al Horford
for
  • DeAndre Jordan
  • Taurine Prince
  • Spencer Dinwiddie
I know we cannot trade Al Horford for a few more days. This only satisfies the salary components. It also does not help us out in gaining more draft picks. I do not know if we could get any picks from the Nets with this trade.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#967 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:40 pm

Hfalorthorrin wrote:Since Spencer Dinwiddie partially tore his ACL. Do you think it is a good idea to trade for him?

Something like:
  • George Hill
  • Al Horford
for
  • DeAndre Jordan
  • Taurine Prince
  • Spencer Dinwiddie
I know we cannot trade Al Horford for a few more days. This only satisfies the salary components. It also does not help us out in gaining more draft picks. I do not know if we could get any picks from the Nets with this trade.


What's the reason for OKC to trade for two bad players and one that just tore his acl? Personally, I'm not interested at all.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#968 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:28 pm

Portland might not want to trade Gary Trent Jr now but they likely aren’t going to want to pay him what he deserves without making major changes to the roster.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#969 » by NYG » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:21 pm

What would you give up for Jarrett Allen and Denver unprotecting their 2023 first round draft pick they already owe you?
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#970 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:37 pm

NYG wrote:What would you give up for Jarrett Allen and Denver unprotecting their 2023 first round draft pick they already owe you?

I wouldn’t give up a ton for Allen. He’s a good player but we are already likely to be giving Shai a max and he’ll have some question marks. I’m fine with that but giving Allen a big pay day along with Shai isn’t ideal in my opinion.

For the Denver frp, I’m not sure sure I follow you. We aren’t going to be pursuing the removal of protections for Denver for no reason. Those discussions happen if Denver calls okc and wants something from their current roster.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#971 » by cjmcallist » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:54 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Portland might not want to trade Gary Trent Jr now but they likely aren’t going to want to pay him what he deserves without making major changes to the roster.

Hollinger’s article prompted this for me too. There are a couple of very young free agents with teams in difficult tax positions.

Trent will be 22 next December. He could be a great pick up and with Portland’s aversion to the tax, he seems gettable. Same for Allen from BKN. Though, the tax is less of a concern for the Nets. Would love to come away with one of Ball, Trent, or Allen.

But, that probably makes us too expensive too fast. Assuming one or two top 10 picks over the next couple of years, we’d be at the tax in 3 years or so. That would be rough.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#972 » by retrobro90 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:24 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Portland might not want to trade Gary Trent Jr now but they likely aren’t going to want to pay him what he deserves without making major changes to the roster.

Hollinger’s article prompted this for me too. There are a couple of very young free agents with teams in difficult tax positions.

Trent will be 22 next December. He could be a great pick up and with Portland’s aversion to the tax, he seems gettable. Same for Allen from BKN. Though, the tax is less of a concern for the Nets. Would love to come away with one of Ball, Trent, or Allen.

But, that probably makes us too expensive too fast. Assuming one or two top 10 picks over the next couple of years, we’d be at the tax in 3 years or so. That would be rough.


Huge fan of Trent. Must have completely missed his name when looking at the upcoming RFAs but no question I'd most like to have him over the other names. Tax could be a future concern but I'd rather lock up Trent now and deal with that problem later once the expensive dudes are here.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#973 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:59 pm

retrobro90 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Portland might not want to trade Gary Trent Jr now but they likely aren’t going to want to pay him what he deserves without making major changes to the roster.

Hollinger’s article prompted this for me too. There are a couple of very young free agents with teams in difficult tax positions.

Trent will be 22 next December. He could be a great pick up and with Portland’s aversion to the tax, he seems gettable. Same for Allen from BKN. Though, the tax is less of a concern for the Nets. Would love to come away with one of Ball, Trent, or Allen.

But, that probably makes us too expensive too fast. Assuming one or two top 10 picks over the next couple of years, we’d be at the tax in 3 years or so. That would be rough.


Huge fan of Trent. Must have completely missed his name when looking at the upcoming RFAs but no question I'd most like to have him over the other names. Tax could be a future concern but I'd rather lock up Trent now and deal with that problem later once the expensive dudes are here.

Unless there is a trade this year, we'll probably have to overpay to prevent Portland from matching. I'm wondering if part of the reason for their lowball offer to start the season was because they planned on keeping Collins. With yet another ankle surgery I could see Collins being the guy they let go or give a lesser payday so they can keep Trent.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#974 » by retrobro90 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 2:59 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:Hollinger’s article prompted this for me too. There are a couple of very young free agents with teams in difficult tax positions.

Trent will be 22 next December. He could be a great pick up and with Portland’s aversion to the tax, he seems gettable. Same for Allen from BKN. Though, the tax is less of a concern for the Nets. Would love to come away with one of Ball, Trent, or Allen.

But, that probably makes us too expensive too fast. Assuming one or two top 10 picks over the next couple of years, we’d be at the tax in 3 years or so. That would be rough.


Huge fan of Trent. Must have completely missed his name when looking at the upcoming RFAs but no question I'd most like to have him over the other names. Tax could be a future concern but I'd rather lock up Trent now and deal with that problem later once the expensive dudes are here.

Unless there is a trade this year, we'll probably have to overpay to prevent Portland from matching. I'm wondering if part of the reason for their lowball offer to start the season was because they planned on keeping Collins. With yet another ankle surgery I could see Collins being the guy they let go or give a lesser payday so they can keep Trent.


I'm bad at math but in Hollinger's article he mentions a 70mil offer sheet for Trent from Portland would put them deep into lux tax territory. If that's all it takes I'm more than happy to overpay.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#975 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:29 pm

retrobro90 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
Huge fan of Trent. Must have completely missed his name when looking at the upcoming RFAs but no question I'd most like to have him over the other names. Tax could be a future concern but I'd rather lock up Trent now and deal with that problem later once the expensive dudes are here.

Unless there is a trade this year, we'll probably have to overpay to prevent Portland from matching. I'm wondering if part of the reason for their lowball offer to start the season was because they planned on keeping Collins. With yet another ankle surgery I could see Collins being the guy they let go or give a lesser payday so they can keep Trent.


I'm bad at math but in Hollinger's article he mentions a 70mil offer sheet for Trent from Portland would put them deep into lux tax territory. If that's all it takes I'm more than happy to overpay.

I could see Dallas throwing a big offer his way too.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#976 » by retrobro90 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:26 pm

What's everybody's current evaluation of a potential Marvin Bagley to OKC deal?

Seems like the pros and cons are pretty clear cut. Bagley's started the year poorly to say the least. Shooting sub 36% from the field right now and had at least one laugh worthy low light he when called for a clear out on a post iso then immediately got stripped. His own father and his teammate's father have publicly requested he be traded. Blah blah blah. The positive to all of that though is that his price could end up being pretty cheap given that he still has clear upside as a 21 year old former #2 pick.

Personally though I don't think I'm sold. So far his character has shown that he feels entitled to certain privileges when it comes to his role. He doesn't want to play the 5 but he doesn't have the switchability nor the shooting ability nor the quickness to play the 4. Even at the 5 he doesn't have the IQ to anchor a defense and communicate those reads to his teammates (at least not yet, has to be one of the hardest skills to master across the league for young players). It's also worth mentioning he's been a black hole on offense who's racked up more turnovers than assists while boasting a 25% usage rate.

But I can see a change of scenery working for him. Especially one like OKC's where they have time to be patient with him. Like I said, I'm probably 70%-80% in the "Don't trade for Bagley" camp but would like to others' thoughts.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#977 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jan 6, 2021 9:59 pm

retrobro90 wrote:What's everybody's current evaluation of a potential Marvin Bagley to OKC deal?

Seems like the pros and cons are pretty clear cut. Bagley's started the year poorly to say the least. Shooting sub 36% from the field right now and had at least one laugh worthy low light he when called for a clear out on a post iso then immediately got stripped. His own father and his teammate's father have publicly requested he be traded. Blah blah blah. The positive to all of that though is that his price could end up being pretty cheap given that he still has clear upside as a 21 year old former #2 pick.

Personally though I don't think I'm sold. So far his character has shown that he feels entitled to certain privileges when it comes to his role. He doesn't want to play the 5 but he doesn't have the switchability nor the shooting ability nor the quickness to play the 4. Even at the 5 he doesn't have the IQ to anchor a defense and communicate those reads to his teammates (at least not yet, has to be one of the hardest skills to master across the league for young players). It's also worth mentioning he's been a black hole on offense who's racked up more turnovers than assists while boasting a 25% usage rate.

But I can see a change of scenery working for him. Especially one like OKC's where they have time to be patient with him. Like I said, I'm probably 70%-80% in the "Don't trade for Bagley" camp but would like to others' thoughts.

I was somewhat interested in the offseason but that ship has sailed. I think there are bigs with just as much upside that are as easy to acquire that make much less. Mo Bamba is one example. We don't really have any young bigs on the roster, unless you think Brown has potential, so I'm not against trying to acquire one. I just kind of feel like Bagley is a negative asset at this point.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#978 » by retrobro90 » Wed Jan 6, 2021 10:31 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:What's everybody's current evaluation of a potential Marvin Bagley to OKC deal?

Seems like the pros and cons are pretty clear cut. Bagley's started the year poorly to say the least. Shooting sub 36% from the field right now and had at least one laugh worthy low light he when called for a clear out on a post iso then immediately got stripped. His own father and his teammate's father have publicly requested he be traded. Blah blah blah. The positive to all of that though is that his price could end up being pretty cheap given that he still has clear upside as a 21 year old former #2 pick.

Personally though I don't think I'm sold. So far his character has shown that he feels entitled to certain privileges when it comes to his role. He doesn't want to play the 5 but he doesn't have the switchability nor the shooting ability nor the quickness to play the 4. Even at the 5 he doesn't have the IQ to anchor a defense and communicate those reads to his teammates (at least not yet, has to be one of the hardest skills to master across the league for young players). It's also worth mentioning he's been a black hole on offense who's racked up more turnovers than assists while boasting a 25% usage rate.

But I can see a change of scenery working for him. Especially one like OKC's where they have time to be patient with him. Like I said, I'm probably 70%-80% in the "Don't trade for Bagley" camp but would like to others' thoughts.

I was somewhat interested in the offseason but that ship has sailed. I think there are bigs with just as much upside that are as easy to acquire that make much less. Mo Bamba is one example. We don't really have any young bigs on the roster, unless you think Brown has potential, so I'm not against trying to acquire one. I just kind of feel like Bagley is a negative asset at this point.


Yeah no doubt. I'm mostly there with you in regards to Bagley's #2 pick salary not being worth his current on court production and him not being a worthy gamble overall but I don't see Bamba as someone with similar upside though. That seems like a different conversation about Bamba specifically but I still see your point. This might boil down to Bagley's market drying up quicker or the Kings' specific desperation in getting his vibes dealt with vs how the Magic/Bulls etc move forward regarding the futures of Bamba/Lauri/WCJ.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#979 » by spearsy23 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:51 am

I don't think marvin bagley forgot how to play basketball since his rookie year. He only played 13 games last year, and it's a really bad season to evaluate early on. I don't know if I buy him ever being good, but I also don't think what he's been this season is representative of his talent.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Trades, Transactions and Ideas Thread 

Post#980 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:58 pm

Hill for Scott and Thybulle?

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