WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1

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Winner

Thunder in 4
1
6%
Thunder in 5
1
6%
Thunder in 6
5
29%
Thunder in 7
2
12%
Rockets in 4
1
6%
Rockets in 5
3
18%
Rockets in 6
3
18%
Rockets in 7
1
6%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#401 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 1:07 pm

I think this team gave this season its best shot but I do not see great things in the future without dramatic changes.

CP3 and Gallo had very strong seasons but based on age they should not be built around. They should be moved to teams where they can be supporting players to get a ring not building blocks.

Adams is only 26 and he has good skills but in these 3 and dunk games his effectiveness is often limited. I think he would be better on a team that uses a different type of defensive scheme.

Dennis is only 26 and looks to me like a Lou Williams type asset off the bench except Dennis plays defense much better than Lou.

SGA has legit 20ppg skills but is not a great passer so he is not a real PG. I think he can improve his shot selection.

Dort is an asset defensively and had a great game 7 but I do think he may struggle offensively.

Bazley impressed me. His body and mind will mature since he is 19 but he is long and can shoot.

Noel has some value off the bench.

I really admire how hard the group played this season but I think the whole was greater than the individual parts. I do think it is time to move some players and draft picks to try to get high quality players, picks or prospects instead of quantity. Maybe some 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 trades.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#402 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Sep 3, 2020 1:50 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Dort proved me wrong at least for this last game. I apologize to Dort. He hit those shots in game 7.

The encouraging thing for me is Shai, Bazley and Dort got good playoff experience. Despite’s Dort’s struggles, he ends the playoffs on a game that should be motivating and not confidence crushing for him. I think shai is a smart player and he knows his weaknesses got exposed this series. I’m a bazley fan. I’m always optimistic for young guys but I really felt like I saw things with him early on that make me think he’s a unique player. I don’t know what his ceiling his yet but I’m all in on him.


Yeah we basically had one very very good prospect in SGA and now we already have 3 young players with relatively ''high'' potential (obviously SGA on a diferent level/ceiling than the others). Add a couple of very good prospects and we are good to go...

If there is a guy in this draft the the organization believes will be a star, this is the year that moving up to get that guy is doable.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#403 » by 1bigfan13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:23 pm

The notion that criticism of Billy Donovan is mostly based on 20/20 hindsight isn't accurate at all. During games you can clearly see the mistakes being made. He was fine most of game 7 but as usual he's reluctant to adjust to what's happening in real-time.

Some examples from last night.

1. Gallo taking the FT instead of CP3. Yes Gallo is a great FT shooter but he'd been struggling with his shot all night and this was a FT with added pressure. As CP3 mentioned, some people are built for those moments and some aren't. Gallo is not one of those guys who's built for game on the line shots. Donovan should have insisted that CP3 shoot the FTs. Most people say the FT wouldn't have mattered anyway but I disagree for this reason. If OKC actually makes a 2-point shot at the buzzer to send the game into OT but end up losing in OT guess what.....that Gallo FT looms huge. Great coaches and leaders always say take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves. This was an example of Donovan thumbing his nose at a little thing.

2. Darius Bazley was outstanding in his 15 minutes last night. I could understand limiting his minutes if the young guy's nerves were getting the best of him being that it was a Game 7. But Bazley was out there balling, impacting both ends of the floor like it was a run-of-the-mill midseason game. Why not ride the hot hand and give yourself some versatility. Which leads me to point 3.

3. Steven Adams should not have been on the floor on the final possession. All he does is muck things up for the other shooters. Even if he caught that inbound pass cleanly Steven Adams ain't hitting a 25 foot 3 pointer. Which is why I said IN THE MOMENT.....Bazley needs to be in the game because he opens things up and gives you another shooter on the floor. If Bazley catches that pass from 25 feet out there's solid chance he actually makes the shot.

4. Shai as the inbounder. Going back to Steven Adams. Why take one of your more consistent scorers off the floor, in a must score situation? If anything I'd have used Adams as the inbounder just so there could be more space to operate.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#404 » by mcscotty » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:26 pm

Screw Westbrook and Harden. Lakers gonna finish those two turncoats
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#405 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:31 pm

I would have had CP3 take the free throw over Gallo but we just saw in the bubble against Denver CP3 miss a critical free throw that could have prevented ot.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#406 » by 1bigfan13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:38 pm

Pillendreher wrote:Against a team with no Center, Steven 'Max contract' Adams should average 20/15, not 10/12. At some point you just have to ask yourself whether that next step is ever going to come and whether there will be season where's not "injured" all the time.

Adams is what he is at this point. We've already seen the best of him.

Thankfully we only have him on the books for one more year at about $28 million. After that we can completely wash our hands of him if we choose. I wouldn't be opposed to him resigning in 2021 but only in a reduced role and at about $7 million per year. Ideally you'd like for OKC to be able to get their hands on a big man who can shoot as well as defend. And have Adams come in for 15-20 minutes a night as that guy's backup. Assuming he's willing to accept a backup role in OKC. If not....deuces. :wave:
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#407 » by 1bigfan13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:40 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I would have had CP3 take the free throw over Gallo but we just saw in the bubble against Denver CP3 miss a critical free throw that could have prevented ot.

Completely understand. There are no 100% guarantees in sports. But I still trust CP3 at the line over Gallo with the season on the line.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#408 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 4:00 pm

1bigfan13 wrote:The notion that criticism of Billy Donovan is mostly based on 20/20 hindsight isn't accurate at all. During games you can clearly see the mistakes being made. He was fine most of game 7 but as usual he's reluctant to adjust to what's happening in real-time.

Some examples from last night.

1. Gallo taking the FT instead of CP3. Yes Gallo is a great FT shooter but he'd been struggling with his shot all night and this was a FT with added pressure. As CP3 mentioned, some people are built for those moments and some aren't. Gallo is not one of those guys who's built for game on the line shots. Donovan should have insisted that CP3 shoot the FTs. Most people say the FT wouldn't have mattered anyway but I disagree for this reason. If OKC actually makes a 2-point shot at the buzzer to send the game into OT but end up losing in OT guess what.....that Gallo FT looms huge. Great coaches and leaders always say take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves. This was an example of Donovan thumbing his nose at a little thing.

2. Darius Bazley was outstanding in his 15 minutes last night. I could understand limiting his minutes if the young guy's nerves were getting the best of him being that it was a Game 7. But Bazley was out there balling, impacting both ends of the floor like it was a run-of-the-mill midseason game. Why not ride the hot hand and give yourself some versatility. Which leads me to point 3.

3. Steven Adams should not have been on the floor on the final possession. All he does is muck things up for the other shooters. Even if he caught that inbound pass cleanly Steven Adams ain't hitting a 25 foot 3 pointer. Which is why I said IN THE MOMENT.....Bazley needs to be in the game because he opens things up and gives you another shooter on the floor. If Bazley catches that pass from 25 feet out there's solid chance he actually makes the shot.

4. Shai as the inbounder. Going back to Steven Adams. Why take one of your more consistent scorers off the floor, in a must score situation? If anything I'd have used Adams as the inbounder just so there could be more space to operate.


I know I'm a Gallo fan but that gives me the basis of knowing his history. Gallo has been super clutch when shooting FT previously in his career and in these playoffs. Last season he hit 3 FTs to send a game to OT. He was 29 for 29 in these playoffs before that missed FT so its really hard to fault Billy for a FT that just rimmed out. Its not like he airballed it. That miss made him 29 for 30 for the whole playoffs. Just bad timing as were CP3 late game mistakes. I think that is a stretch to blame Billy for a missed free throw from a guy that was 29 for his previous 29.

I do agree that Shai should not have been the inbounder. In fact even if Adams caught the ball 30 feet from the hoop what was he going to do with it there.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#409 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:13 pm

Did I missunderstood or CP3 was basically saying goodbye to OKC on his twitter video?
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#410 » by getrichordie » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:18 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:Did I missunderstood or CP3 was basically saying goodbye to OKC on his twitter video?


Sure sounded like it...
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#411 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:52 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:Did I missunderstood or CP3 was basically saying goodbye to OKC on his twitter video?


Sure sounded like it...


Hope he has already at least one offer and it's not just a way of putting pressure on Presti...

Feel like because of this Covid situation (and Presti being to kind) we may end up paying to trade CP3 :noway:
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#412 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:57 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:Did I missunderstood or CP3 was basically saying goodbye to OKC on his twitter video?


Sure sounded like it...


Hope he has already at least one offer and it's not just a way of putting pressure on Presti...

Feel like because of this Covid situation (and Presti being to kind) we may end up paying to trade CP3 :noway:

The salary cap crunch will impact all teams, not just us. Teams are going to have trouble finding ways to add pieces without trading, especially in a weeks free agent class. Philly, Milwaukee, LAL and others will likely be trying to find ways to add talent any way possible.

Also, I think CP3 has every right to put pressure on Sam to get a deal done this off season. Paul was great for us for a year but Sam traded for him knowing this wasn’t where he wanted to be.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#413 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 9:10 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Sure sounded like it...


Hope he has already at least one offer and it's not just a way of putting pressure on Presti...

Feel like because of this Covid situation (and Presti being to kind) we may end up paying to trade CP3 :noway:

The salary cap crunch will impact all teams, not just us. Teams are going to have trouble finding ways to add pieces without trading, especially in a weeks free agent class. Philly, Milwaukee, LAL and others will likely be trying to find ways to add talent any way possible.

Also, I think CP3 has every right to put pressure on Sam to get a deal done this off season. Paul was great for us for a year but Sam traded for him knowing this wasn’t where he wanted to be.


I understand your point but if players all got to choose where they played 70% of the leagues teams might have problems getting or retaining star players. On the other hand it is a tough business when players can be traded at almost any time. Come to think of it how many OKC choose to play in OKC?
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#414 » by 1bigfan13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 9:25 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:I understand your point but if players all got to choose where they played 70% of the leagues teams might have problems getting or retaining star players. On the other hand it is a tough business when players can be traded at almost any time. Come to think of it how many OKC choose to play in OKC?


I'm probably blanking on someone but I honestly can't think of a single quality FA that chose to sign with OKC. By quality FA I'm referring to guys who are considered superstars/stars to role players like Dragic.

Again, I may be missing someone but it seems like outside of trades OKC is usually stuck signing bottom of the barrel FAs like Anthony Morrow or Patrick Patterson.

I know a lot of it has to do with salary cap but OKC isn't exactly an ideal location to live for most of these guys. IIRC, a very good OKC team during the KD years lost out on Pau Gasol because OKC's entertainment amenities didn't measure up to Chicago's.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#415 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Sep 3, 2020 10:27 pm

It depends what you consider a quality free agent. George re-signed after a year long recruiting effort. Horford was apparently willing and ready to sign the year that Durant left. Melo waived his no trade clause to come here. Okc will never be a free agent destination but if the talent is here, it’s not impossible to bring in guys who are willing to be here. The thunder haven’t historically had the cap space to try to chase after free agents. Rudy Gay was rumored to want to sign here when he chose the spurs but we just had the MLE and end up with the disappointment that was Patrick Patterson.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#416 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 10:54 pm

Why should we care about getting quality FA right now? The goal is to get quality FA in 2 or 3 years (if they make a good rebuild)
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#417 » by Pillendreher » Fri Sep 4, 2020 8:52 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:Against a team with no Center, Steven 'Max contract' Adams should average 20/15, not 10/12. At some point you just have to ask yourself whether that next step is ever going to come and whether there will be season where's not "injured" all the time.

The next step is most likely a regression due to his body not being able to keep up with the demands of his high minutes.


At some point it's just the same issues over and over again, isn't it? Is he really injured? Or just prone to bad play over long stretches?
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#418 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:05 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:Against a team with no Center, Steven 'Max contract' Adams should average 20/15, not 10/12. At some point you just have to ask yourself whether that next step is ever going to come and whether there will be season where's not "injured" all the time.

The next step is most likely a regression due to his body not being able to keep up with the demands of his high minutes.


At some point it's just the same issues over and over again, isn't it? Is he really injured? Or just prone to bad play over long stretches?

Likely its both. He has a very limited skill set that only thrives when he's healthy. He looked really good in the bubble until this happened. He wasn't the same afterwards. Yet even a healthy Adams still can't shoot free throws, has slow post moves and isn't an elite defender.
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#419 » by Galloisdaman » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:26 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:It depends what you consider a quality free agent. George re-signed after a year long recruiting effort. Horford was apparently willing and ready to sign the year that Durant left. Melo waived his no trade clause to come here. Okc will never be a free agent destination but if the talent is here, it’s not impossible to bring in guys who are willing to be here. The thunder haven’t historically had the cap space to try to chase after free agents. Rudy Gay was rumored to want to sign here when he chose the spurs but we just had the MLE and end up with the disappointment that was Patrick Patterson.


I would say all the guys you named were quality FA but only PG was a quality all star in his prime in my opinion.

I would agree with you that the talent is here on paper right now but CP3 and Gallo should be looked at a bit differently based on being 32 and 35. Now if you take them out of the equation OKC is left with SGA, Dennis, Adams and Balzey as their talent. All good players but how would you rank that talent in comparison to the rest of the league?
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Re: WCQF: Oklahoma City Thunder vs Houston Rockets | P1 

Post#420 » by Galloisdaman » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:29 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:Why should we care about getting quality FA right now? The goal is to get quality FA in 2 or 3 years (if they make a good rebuild)


The odds are against a good rebuild on mid to late round picks. I think you increase those odds with some 2 for 1, 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 packages to get higher draft picks or good prospects.
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