Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain?

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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#221 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:27 pm

Houston kind of feels like a team that if they run it back they could be decimated by injuries.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#222 » by cjmcallist » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:45 am

jake_swivel wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I think Houston is at a point where they can stay good for a while. I don't think they'll need to tank if they play their cards right.

But, it would require them giving up on a championship for this season.


Not sure I agree with this. Superstars in this era aren't okay with mediocre results. I guess if you're thinking Westbrook's downtrend is an anomaly and not a symptom of a trajectory, they could possibly have a couple second round exits left in them. But it seems more likely to me that he's going to get worse, not better as his body starts slowing. Harden's going to understand that their lack of flexibility locks them into mediocrity. I see little chance he resigns with them, and it seems very likely that he ends up forcing a trade.

If they don't handle that situation perfectly, they could bungle it completely and get terrible value for him with no means of improving that team. Fertita seems like a meddler. If he gets in a standoff with Harden or teams that don't want to offer much value for a player who can opt out after 21-22, they could lose him for nothing. And that's a disaster for that franchise. Like, set them back for 5 years kind of disaster.

I agree that Fertitta is a meddler (which is why I'm so excited about those HOU picks). That definitely makes it more difficult, and more unlikely. I also agree that their margin of error is slim.

But, I think HOU could thread the needle with a Harden trade. Less likely with a Westbrook trade. I also think their other players have value on the trade market.

When I think of the bleak HOU future, it's not because of their current roster. It's because of their owner.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#223 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:16 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I think Houston is at a point where they can stay good for a while. I don't think they'll need to tank if they play their cards right.

But, it would require them giving up on a championship for this season.


Not sure I agree with this. Superstars in this era aren't okay with mediocre results. I guess if you're thinking Westbrook's downtrend is an anomaly and not a symptom of a trajectory, they could possibly have a couple second round exits left in them. But it seems more likely to me that he's going to get worse, not better as his body starts slowing. Harden's going to understand that their lack of flexibility locks them into mediocrity. I see little chance he resigns with them, and it seems very likely that he ends up forcing a trade.

If they don't handle that situation perfectly, they could bungle it completely and get terrible value for him with no means of improving that team. Fertita seems like a meddler. If he gets in a standoff with Harden or teams that don't want to offer much value for a player who can opt out after 21-22, they could lose him for nothing. And that's a disaster for that franchise. Like, set them back for 5 years kind of disaster.

I agree that Fertitta is a meddler (which is why I'm so excited about those HOU picks). That definitely makes it more difficult, and more unlikely. I also agree that their margin of error is slim.

But, I think HOU could thread the needle with a Harden trade. Less likely with a Westbrook trade. I also think their other players have value on the trade market.

When I think of the bleak HOU future, it's not because of their current roster. It's because of their owner.

If Russ is healthy and returns to his pre-Covid form, Houston could be good if they are healthy and add the right pieces. Morey apparently thought he could get Noel last year and replace the production of Capella for much cheaper. I think small ball is done. If they get the right pieces, they could still be a good team. Barring injuries I still don't see them finishing above LAL, LAC, Denver, Golden State and maybe even Utah and Dallas.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#224 » by itzmrgigglez » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:33 am

Head coach update:

Will Hardy
Brian Keefe
Adrian Griffin
David Vanterpool

These are the most talked about coaches in connection to the thunder but as we all know, Presti is not very predictable
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#225 » by cjmcallist » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm

itzmrgigglez wrote:Head coach update:

Will Hardy
Brian Keefe
Adrian Griffin
David Vanterpool

These are the most talked about coaches in connection to the thunder but as we all know, Presti is not very predictable

Any surprise that Atkinson isn't on the list?
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#226 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:28 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
itzmrgigglez wrote:Head coach update:

Will Hardy
Brian Keefe
Adrian Griffin
David Vanterpool

These are the most talked about coaches in connection to the thunder but as we all know, Presti is not very predictable

Any surprise that Atkinson isn't on the list?

If I’m Atkinson, I would want a rebuild a little further along. Shai is a nice piece but he’s not a number one and as of right now, we are a year away from possibly being in a position to get another really good piece.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#227 » by Dn4sty » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:51 pm

I know this isn’t the preferred choice for many people but what does running it back look like next season.

Gallo stated on a podcast that he would be “love to run it back”

Also let’s assume a CP3 trade doesn’t materialize, which wouldn’t be crazy with all the financial uncertainty.

If that were to happen, how could OKC improve the team with keeping luxury tax implications in mind, etc....
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#228 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 pm

Dn4sty wrote:I know this isn’t the preferred choice for many people but what does running it back look like next season.

Gallo stated on a podcast that he would be “love to run it back”

Also let’s assume a CP3 trade doesn’t materialize, which wouldn’t be crazy with all the financial uncertainty.

If that were to happen, how could OKC improve the team with keeping luxury tax implications in mind, etc....

The issue I see is how many teams in the west competing for a playoff spot are getting worse? Most of the teams around okc’s level are young and will likely be better-Memphis, New Orleans and Dallas. Golden state will also be back. Houston likely has a worse record but will be about the same if healthy. Most of the others will likely be about the same. It somewhat feels like we caught lightening in a bottle with Gallo and Cp3 staying healthy. The best way to run it back and be competitive is if bazley, shai and Dort take another step forward and the team stays healthy. I still think if we don’t commit to the rebuild this year then I wonder if shai is part of the long term future.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#229 » by Dn4sty » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:44 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:I know this isn’t the preferred choice for many people but what does running it back look like next season.

Gallo stated on a podcast that he would be “love to run it back”

Also let’s assume a CP3 trade doesn’t materialize, which wouldn’t be crazy with all the financial uncertainty.

If that were to happen, how could OKC improve the team with keeping luxury tax implications in mind, etc....

The issue I see is how many teams in the west competing for a playoff spot are getting worse? Most of the teams around okc’s level are young and will likely be better-Memphis, New Orleans and Dallas. Golden state will also be back. Houston likely has a worse record but will be about the same if healthy. Most of the others will likely be about the same. It somewhat feels like we caught lightening in a bottle with Gallo and Cp3 staying healthy. The best way to run it back and be competitive is if bazley, shai and Dort take another step forward and the team stays healthy. I still think if we don’t commit to the rebuild this year then I wonder if shai is part of the long term future.


I think OKC could use some assets to add another young piece, be a bit creative with salaries to avoid tax (assuming tax line is the same as last year).

Then they could play things out and then outsource the tank with Rockets and Clippers
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#230 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:01 pm

Dn4sty wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:I know this isn’t the preferred choice for many people but what does running it back look like next season.

Gallo stated on a podcast that he would be “love to run it back”

Also let’s assume a CP3 trade doesn’t materialize, which wouldn’t be crazy with all the financial uncertainty.

If that were to happen, how could OKC improve the team with keeping luxury tax implications in mind, etc....

The issue I see is how many teams in the west competing for a playoff spot are getting worse? Most of the teams around okc’s level are young and will likely be better-Memphis, New Orleans and Dallas. Golden state will also be back. Houston likely has a worse record but will be about the same if healthy. Most of the others will likely be about the same. It somewhat feels like we caught lightening in a bottle with Gallo and Cp3 staying healthy. The best way to run it back and be competitive is if bazley, shai and Dort take another step forward and the team stays healthy. I still think if we don’t commit to the rebuild this year then I wonder if shai is part of the long term future.


I think OKC could use some assets to add another young piece, be a bit creative with salaries to avoid tax (assuming tax line is the same as last year).

Then they could play things out and then outsource the tank with Rockets and Clippers

Adding another young piece would change my perspective assuming the young piece isn't someone like Zach Lavine.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#231 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:28 pm



He sounds very mature.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#232 » by cjmcallist » Yesterday 6:28 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:The issue I see is how many teams in the west competing for a playoff spot are getting worse? Most of the teams around okc’s level are young and will likely be better-Memphis, New Orleans and Dallas. Golden state will also be back. Houston likely has a worse record but will be about the same if healthy. Most of the others will likely be about the same. It somewhat feels like we caught lightening in a bottle with Gallo and Cp3 staying healthy. The best way to run it back and be competitive is if bazley, shai and Dort take another step forward and the team stays healthy. I still think if we don’t commit to the rebuild this year then I wonder if shai is part of the long term future.


I think OKC could use some assets to add another young piece, be a bit creative with salaries to avoid tax (assuming tax line is the same as last year).

Then they could play things out and then outsource the tank with Rockets and Clippers

Adding another young piece would change my perspective assuming the young piece isn't someone like Zach Lavine.

Define young piece though...

Outside of adding a top 10 guy, I don't see any one player being good enough to really put us in contention. Though, it is more fun to think about.

Let's say we decided to go for it the next couple of years. Does anything put us at the top?

Adams, SGA, Nader, Ferguson for Gobert, Bogdonovich, 2023 FRP?
Schroeder, Dort, 2026 LAC FRP for Vic

Paul
Dipo
Bogdonovic
Gallinari
Gobert
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#233 » by ThunderBolt » Yesterday 9:14 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
I think OKC could use some assets to add another young piece, be a bit creative with salaries to avoid tax (assuming tax line is the same as last year).

Then they could play things out and then outsource the tank with Rockets and Clippers

Adding another young piece would change my perspective assuming the young piece isn't someone like Zach Lavine.

Define young piece though...

Outside of adding a top 10 guy, I don't see any one player being good enough to really put us in contention. Though, it is more fun to think about.

Let's say we decided to go for it the next couple of years. Does anything put us at the top?

Adams, SGA, Nader, Ferguson for Gobert, Bogdonovich, 2023 FRP?
Schroeder, Dort, 2026 LAC FRP for Vic

Paul
Dipo
Bogdonovic
Gallinari
Gobert

Personally I wasn't thinking of adding a current top ten guy. I was thinking if another team gets stupid and trades us a young player that could develop in to top 10-20 guy in a few years alongside Shai. Running it back wouldn't be because we thought we were actually going to win anything but that there was more benefit in having veterans alongside a true core of young guys. I do think there is benefit in creating a winning culture. Otherwise you can have good young talent that continually sucks like Towns with the Wolves.
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#234 » by getrichordie » Today 1:37 am

Hey guys, just wanted to share something that I'm pretty excited about.

I was asked to come on to the NBA Draft Junkies show/podcast by Rafael Barlowe to represent the Thunder. Barlowe finally got the video up and running as well as the podcast. Links are below. We talked about Chris Paul trades as well as who the Thunder should target or not target at 25. Barlowe is a pretty connected guy and he used to work for the Mavericks D-League team, so he has a ton of insight to offer on prospects.

Let me know what you guys think!

PODCAST link = https://open.spotify.com/episode/4X8r53NZrIRQ8bnKUXHdvn?si=qAiqYC2VQhmhRPCzRtuiyg

:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD (updated 10/23/20)
[twitter] @thunderdustin
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Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#235 » by Dn4sty » Today 3:46 am

cjmcallist wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
I think OKC could use some assets to add another young piece, be a bit creative with salaries to avoid tax (assuming tax line is the same as last year).

Then they could play things out and then outsource the tank with Rockets and Clippers

Adding another young piece would change my perspective assuming the young piece isn't someone like Zach Lavine.

Define young piece though...

Outside of adding a top 10 guy, I don't see any one player being good enough to really put us in contention. Though, it is more fun to think about.

Let's say we decided to go for it the next couple of years. Does anything put us at the top?

Adams, SGA, Nader, Ferguson for Gobert, Bogdonovich, 2023 FRP?
Schroeder, Dort, 2026 LAC FRP for Vic

Paul
Dipo
Bogdonovic
Gallinari
Gobert



Nothing likely takes out Bron/AD for a few more years, but I’m not sure that doesn’t mean you don’t continue to push, as I think a winning culture means something. I also am not convinced that tanking gets a team where they need to be, especially with the lottery odds flattened.

I think there are several solid trades that could be done that improve the team without mortgaging the future. I do think OKC could go all in and have enough assets to add Beal AND another impact player, but I don’t think that’s wise.

I do however think that’s is reasonable to kick the tires on players like Harrison Barnes, Myles Turner, Dipo (buy low candidate), maybe Buddy...who wouldn’t break the asset bank and would add to this team

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