Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain?

Moderators: Andre Roberstan, ThunderBolt

User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#281 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:02 pm

Appreciate the well thought out response. I’m in agreement with pretty much all of it.

One quibble is trading up in this draft. I hate this draft. It reminds me so much of previous drafts that were just absolute zeros. Will there be a few all-stars? Maybe. But it seems like a crapshoot and I bet those guys will largely not be at the top of the draft. Trading up makes sense for the team’s timeline, but I don’t think there is a lot of opportunity for knowing much about who will or won’t pan out in this draft. In our position I’d rather have Boston’s 3 shots in the dark than the 10th pick.

Of Rubio/green/Adams, Rubio seems like he has the most value as an asset. But I also think he will be the most steadying presence in terms of keeping a structured on court environment necessary for good development. He also takes the ball out of shai’s hands.

I definitely hope that with a full on tank there are vets that start and end the year here. I’ve watched so many tank seasons with other teams where the atmosphere is so chaotic. I think a lot of prospects that could have otherwise had good careers have been ruined by two years at the start of their career in a tank. It’s like those terrible pickup games where people just start randomly walking off the court because it barely feels like a game anymore. I’m glad Shai has two playoff runs under his belt surrounded by winners.

Maybe the answer is to try to get solid vets with a resume who aren’t actually very good anymore for Oubre (think: Chris Dudley), and then seeing what kind of future assets you can get for Rubio/green. I have no clue what adams’ value is at this point. I just hope it isn’t a complete stripdown even though it’s exciting to think about what you can get back.
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 18,959
And1: 7,315
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#282 » by spearsy23 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:10 pm

I think we still need to get a little bit worse. We're pretty well riding on not having Paul/Gallo and regressing in close games to not only remove us from the playoffs but drop us deep into the lotto. If shai were to take a leap we could still end up in the Phoenix range. I think we need to at least move Rubio still. Green/oubre can wait until the deadline.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#283 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 pm

I think we are nearing the bottom of the west this year but some of the eastern teams are definitely worse. Playing more western conference teams likely helps our record become worse. At some point the spurs are likely going to tank, right? I think the Roco trade signals the beginning of the end for Houston.

I think Shai will have a rough year this year but it will ultimately make him a better player. He’s really going to miss having defenses focus on other guys. I don’t think Shai will be capable of playing point but I see him splitting duties with another combo guard or staying at shooting guard.

If we trade up in the draft I prefer around the 10-15 range. If we get in to the top 3, I’m a believer in wieseman. I don’t think he’s the next coming of AD. However he’s not Steven Adams 2.0. I think he can be a great modern nba big. It will likely take a while for him to develop compared to a more nba ready player like Cunningham. Get him now and start the process. Honestly I’m ok with whoever we draft. The thunder scouting dept know more than me. I don’t want ball but there is no denying the kid has some elite talent. If he’s got enough of Lonzo’s personality then maybe he’ll be a better fit than I think.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#284 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:27 pm

spearsy23 wrote:I think we still need to get a little bit worse. We're pretty well riding on not having Paul/Gallo and regressing in close games to not only remove us from the playoffs but drop us deep into the lotto. If shai were to take a leap we could still end up in the Phoenix range. I think we need to at least move Rubio still. Green/oubre can wait until the deadline.


I think I agree. Rubio seems dangerously helpful. And I’d like to actually get to see shai play his projected position full time. I’d like to get Oubre out ASAP, personally, just because he’s going to be so focused on a big contract. Those two are who I’d pick to ship out, if it was up to me.

I know green will want out, but I think a dude with championships with 3 different franchises would be valuable to have, and Sam has historically seemed to be good at talking vets into playing the good soldier.

I know you don’t like Adams, but he seems like the best vet to keep in terms of culture, while not impacting winning too much.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#285 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:31 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:I think we still need to get a little bit worse. We're pretty well riding on not having Paul/Gallo and regressing in close games to not only remove us from the playoffs but drop us deep into the lotto. If shai were to take a leap we could still end up in the Phoenix range. I think we need to at least move Rubio still. Green/oubre can wait until the deadline.


I think I agree. Rubio seems dangerously helpful. And I’d like to actually get to see shai play his projected position full time. I’d like to get Oubre out ASAP, personally, just because he’s going to be so focused on a big contract. Those two are who I’d pick to ship out, if it was up to me.

I know green will want out, but I think a dude with championships with 3 different franchises would be valuable to have, and Sam has historically seemed to be good at talking vets into playing the good soldier.

I know you don’t like Adams, but he seems like the best vet to keep in terms of culture, while not impacting winning too much.


If we draft a big in this draft, I’m ok keeping Adams for development purposes. I think Adams value lies in teams wanting an expriring for next years free agent class. If the rumors are true and Giannis signs the super max next month, I think it hurts Adams value a bit.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#286 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:33 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
I don’t want ball but there is no denying the kid has some elite talent. If he’s got enough of Lonzo’s personality then maybe he’ll be a better fit than I think.


Legitimately wouldn’t want ball if he were free. I hate guards who can’t shoot, his defense is cluelessly awful, and everything I’ve seen of his personality makes me think he’s the most like his dad of the brothers. And I’d puke a little every time I had to read/watch anything lavar had to say.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#287 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:37 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
I don’t want ball but there is no denying the kid has some elite talent. If he’s got enough of Lonzo’s personality then maybe he’ll be a better fit than I think.


Legitimately wouldn’t want ball if he were free. I hate guards who can’t shoot, his defense is cluelessly awful, and everything I’ve seen of his personality makes me think he’s the most like his dad of the brothers. And I’d puke a little every time I had to read/watch anything lavar had to say.

Truthfully, I agree. However he’s 6’8 so what I’ve heard is that somewhat raises his floor as a defender with the wingspan. One hand I don’t think he fits with okc’s culture. On the other side I think Sam feels pretty good about making it work with whomever he drafts. As good as I feel right now after the trades, I do have a bit of a sinking feeling that we are getting Wiggins and number 2. I’m just trying to prepare for the worst.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#288 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:01 pm

ThunderBolt wrote: As good as I feel right now after the trades, I do have a bit of a sinking feeling that we are getting Wiggins and number 2. I’m just trying to prepare for the worst.


I don’t think we are a good match for the warriors, but I’d love to see what Rubio would look like in that warrior offense. I don’t think I’d hate some mix of Rubio/Adams/Oubre/green/picks for the #2 if we got wiseman/Wiggins.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#289 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:25 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote: As good as I feel right now after the trades, I do have a bit of a sinking feeling that we are getting Wiggins and number 2. I’m just trying to prepare for the worst.


I don’t think we are a good match for the warriors, but I’d love to see what Rubio would look like in that warrior offense. I don’t think I’d hate some mix of Rubio/Adams/Oubre/green/picks for the #2 if we got wiseman/Wiggins.

I think it’s possible their owner has a bit of a change of heart on his willingness to spend. I see okc as one of the few teams that could take Wiggins.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#290 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:32 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote: As good as I feel right now after the trades, I do have a bit of a sinking feeling that we are getting Wiggins and number 2. I’m just trying to prepare for the worst.


I don’t think we are a good match for the warriors, but I’d love to see what Rubio would look like in that warrior offense. I don’t think I’d hate some mix of Rubio/Adams/Oubre/green/picks for the #2 if we got wiseman/Wiggins.

I think it’s possible their owner has a bit of a change of heart on his willingness to spend. I see okc as one of the few teams that could take Wiggins.


As long as it isn’t ball it could be interesting. Don’t know how much future picks would be interesting to a team in win-now mode would be.

I bet their owner’s net worth close to doubled after covid if he is mostly invested in the technology sector of the stock market, though. And something tells me he is.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#291 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:36 pm

Oh he’s in the entertainment sector. Maybe you’re right, then.

Most billionaires made a killing on the crash. If he had any free capital, I bet he recouped on the tech side.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#292 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 pm

jake_swivel wrote:Oh he’s in the entertainment sector. Maybe you’re right, then.

Most billionaires made a killing on the crash. If he had any free capital, I bet he recouped on the tech side.

Ya the chase center cost a pretty penny and it’s been empty for months. We’ll know a lot more in about 36 hours!
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#293 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:46 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:Oh he’s in the entertainment sector. Maybe you’re right, then.

Most billionaires made a killing on the crash. If he had any free capital, I bet he recouped on the tech side.

Ya the chase center cost a pretty penny and it’s been empty for months. We’ll know a lot more in about 36 hours!


Oh I was looking at the other owner (gruber). Lavin is mostly invested in medical science and technology. Minority owners may be hurting depending on their portfolio but I bet he’s doing more than fine, personally. Medical and tech stocks went through the damn roof and he has a background in hedge funds so I bet he missed the worst of the crash and then doubled down.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#294 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:47 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:Oh he’s in the entertainment sector. Maybe you’re right, then.

Most billionaires made a killing on the crash. If he had any free capital, I bet he recouped on the tech side.

Ya the chase center cost a pretty penny and it’s been empty for months. We’ll know a lot more in about 36 hours!


Oh I was looking at the other owner (gruber). Lavin is mostly invested in medical science and technology. Minority owners may be hurting depending on their portfolio but I bet he’s doing more than fine, personally. Medical and tech stocks went through the damn roof and he has a background in hedge funds so I bet he missed the worst of the crash and then doubled down.



You may be right. I’m just echoing what I’ve heard on a few podcasts.
User avatar
jake_swivel
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 122
Joined: Jul 07, 2019

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#295 » by jake_swivel » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:53 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:You may be right. I’m just echoing what I’ve heard on a few podcasts.


Gotcha. I imagine they are looking at it purely from a basketball business perspective. I’ve been obsessed with the stock market since the crash and so many rich dudes capitalized on it. Especially in medical/technology. I have to imagine with his hedge fund background, he’s highly diversified. He took an nba hit, but rich dudes who know the stock market doubled and tripled their net worth if they got out before the crash and reinvested near the bottom.
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 18,959
And1: 7,315
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#296 » by spearsy23 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:02 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
I don’t want ball but there is no denying the kid has some elite talent. If he’s got enough of Lonzo’s personality then maybe he’ll be a better fit than I think.


Legitimately wouldn’t want ball if he were free. I hate guards who can’t shoot, his defense is cluelessly awful, and everything I’ve seen of his personality makes me think he’s the most like his dad of the brothers. And I’d puke a little every time I had to read/watch anything lavar had to say.

Read some interesting comments on lavar from scott brooks that really changed my view of him somewhat. Yes, he's annoying and has some deep flaws, but ultimately he's a father out there pumping up his kids. The article kinda detailed how Brooks grew up without a father and would've killed to have a guy like lavar that was there for every game and telling everyone who would listen how great his kids are. Idk man, it just really put into perspective how petty I was being about lavar, he hasn't really done much wrong besides made some questionable comments.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#297 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:27 am

Alright guys. Temporarily locking this for the draft. Let’s consolidate all posts here for a couple hours. Thanks. I love all of you.

viewtopic.php?f=334&t=1904331
User avatar
ThunderBolt
Forum Mod - Thunder
Forum Mod - Thunder
Posts: 14,431
And1: 12,408
Joined: Dec 29, 2016
Location: Bentonville, AR
   

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#298 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:30 pm

Read on Twitter
Balkman32
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,197
And1: 634
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
 

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#299 » by Balkman32 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:31 pm

Muscala opted into his player option
Balkman32
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,197
And1: 634
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
 

Re: Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain? 

Post#300 » by Balkman32 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:53 pm

Admiral Schofield is in the deal with the 37th selection for the 53rd last night and a '24 2nd rounder from Memphis (Acquired in the trade back for Bazley last year).

Return to Oklahoma City Thunder