20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News

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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#721 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:56 pm

Had to sound off a little on this because it's just weird. Just wanted to say first I'm not totally sure this is just tanking. Horford they agreed w/ him to sit. And they're not sitting Dort and Poku to lose more, there's really not a big reason to stunt development of youth just to lose games (even SGA seems like legit injury despite initial thoughts maybe it was to lose more).

In the end all it says is that they're sitting guys and losing right now while they were better earlier. If you want to punish OKC then punish the teams that are worse than them despite not sitting guys because otherwise all you're saying is "we'd rather you be incompetent than have a plan to rebuild". Like the Pistons/Wolves/Rockets are bad. Worse than OKC. The Kings haven't made the playoffs in 15 years. The Raptors just lost to this roster.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#722 » by jake_swivel » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:As I said on the GB, I think the nba is hurt much more by their prime time games not having stars available. The nets setting Durant against the 76ers and playing him the day before against the Wolves is worse than what OKC is doing. We aren't on national tv. How many Pelicans and Warriors games did I not watch last year because of injuries, real or fake?


I’m pretty sure I read that a percentage of local tv deals goes to the league and a percentage is pooled and shared with the rest of the teams. Most goes to the team in question, but it’s still in everyone’s interest for each team to get the best deal possible. Having a basic level of competitiveness to the bulk of the regular season is good for the league in selling those deals. There are bigger problems, but I think it’s still a problem.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#723 » by jake_swivel » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:01 pm

bondom34 wrote:Had to sound off a little on this because it's just weird. Just wanted to say first I'm not totally sure this is just tanking. Horford they agreed w/ him to sit. And they're not sitting Dort and Poku to lose more, there's really not a big reason to stunt development of youth just to lose games (even SGA seems like legit injury despite initial thoughts maybe it was to lose more).

In the end all it says is that they're sitting guys and losing right now while they were better earlier. If you want to punish OKC then punish the teams that are worse than them despite not sitting guys because otherwise all you're saying is "we'd rather you be incompetent than have a plan to rebuild". Like the Pistons/Wolves/Rockets are bad. Worse than OKC. The Kings haven't made the playoffs in 15 years. The Raptors just lost to this roster.


It’s tanking. Muscala has sat since the deadline, too. They got George hill out of town, released the other dude whose name escapes me at the moment and signed G-league dudes. They had 3 simultaneous concussions. And I’m not convinced SGA has a damn thing wrong with his foot.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#724 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:05 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Had to sound off a little on this because it's just weird. Just wanted to say first I'm not totally sure this is just tanking. Horford they agreed w/ him to sit. And they're not sitting Dort and Poku to lose more, there's really not a big reason to stunt development of youth just to lose games (even SGA seems like legit injury despite initial thoughts maybe it was to lose more).

In the end all it says is that they're sitting guys and losing right now while they were better earlier. If you want to punish OKC then punish the teams that are worse than them despite not sitting guys because otherwise all you're saying is "we'd rather you be incompetent than have a plan to rebuild". Like the Pistons/Wolves/Rockets are bad. Worse than OKC. The Kings haven't made the playoffs in 15 years. The Raptors just lost to this roster.


It’s tanking. Muscala has sat since the deadline, too. They got George hill out of town, released the other dude whose name escapes me at the moment and signed G-league dudes. They had 3 simultaneous concussions. And I’m not convinced SGA has a damn thing wrong with his foot.

I don't know about it anymore. For Dort and Poku especially, and concussions are concussions, you can't really rush or fake them. Sitting Dort isn't losing you any games and sitting Poku is probably helping you win right now.

Horford is the only vet and Hill they wanted to trade preseason and barely played for them. He missed like a month before the trade and they kept winning. Is it rough right now? Yup. And this is still not the worst record in the NBA.

Edit: I mean I see it too. And yup its bad right now, maybe it is for tanking. But I'm not sure with the young guys especially because its not really like most of them are even impacting winning.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#725 » by jake_swivel » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:13 pm

bondom34 wrote:concussions are concussions, you can't really rush or fake them.


You can absolutely fake concussions. The diagnostics are largely self reported symptoms.

“Are you sensitive to light?”

“Yes.”

“Concussion.”

bondom34 wrote:Sitting Dort isn't losing you any games


They’ve won more than one game with Dort as the best player on the court this year.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#726 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:13 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
bondom34 wrote:concussions are concussions, you can't really rush or fake them.


You can absolutely fake concussions. The diagnostics are largely self reported symptoms.

“Are you sensitive to light?”

“Yes.”

“Concussion.”

bondom34 wrote:Sitting Dort isn't losing you any games


They’ve won more than one game with Dort as the best player on the court this year.


I'd think you'd need more than that to fail a test, but still don't see these guys faking injuries when they're in their early 20s and developing. And they beat Toronto a week or two ago with the current roster. Why not investigate them.

Also for anyone who really wants to say how bad it is? I bought a month of league pass for the first time because I wanted to see more Poku. Literally just to see more of this rebuild, its been such a fun season. If fans can't see a direction for a team that's more on them IMO than the league. And the league can't really police injuries I don't think.

Like I'm sorry the GB thinks this is awful.

The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.

TBH the GB just gets mad. Other than people complaining there (and being honest it's fans of teams that mostly don't care about OKC at all and paid zero attention to anyone on this team until this) I haven't really seen anything anywhere else. Teams mail it in every year, just this year it's OKC instead of whoever else and some other teams fans are upset because they really desperately wanted to see....*checks notes*.....Al Horford playing in April.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#727 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:19 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:As I said on the GB, I think the nba is hurt much more by their prime time games not having stars available. The nets setting Durant against the 76ers and playing him the day before against the Wolves is worse than what OKC is doing. We aren't on national tv. How many Pelicans and Warriors games did I not watch last year because of injuries, real or fake?


Having a basic level of competitiveness to the bulk of the regular season is good for the league in selling those deals.

I think we can say with a clean conscience we've done this. Now that the bulk of the season is behind us, it's time get down to business. Like you said, losing by 5-10 is preferable to losing by 40 but beggars can't be choosers.
bondom34 wrote:The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#728 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:31 pm

Spoiler:
bondom34 wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
You can absolutely fake concussions. The diagnostics are largely self reported symptoms.

“Are you sensitive to light?”

“Yes.”

“Concussion.”



They’ve won more than one game with Dort as the best player on the court this year.


I'd think you'd need more than that to fail a test, but still don't see these guys faking injuries when they're in their early 20s and developing. And they beat Toronto a week or two ago with the current roster. Why not investigate them.

Also for anyone who really wants to say how bad it is? I bought a month of league pass for the first time because I wanted to see more Poku. Literally just to see more of this rebuild, its been such a fun season. If fans can't see a direction for a team that's more on them IMO than the league. And the league can't really police injuries I don't think.

Like I'm sorry the GB thinks this is awful.

The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.

TBH the GB just gets mad. Other than people complaining there (and being honest it's fans of teams that mostly don't care about OKC at all and paid zero attention to anyone on this team until this) I haven't really seen anything anywhere else. Teams mail it in every year, just this year it's OKC instead of whoever else and some other teams fans are upset because they really desperately wanted to see....*checks notes*.....Al Horford playing in April.

I always feel dirty when I get sucked into a GB discussion. Perhaps my new signature will help.
bondom34 wrote:The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#729 » by jake_swivel » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:33 pm

bondom34 wrote:Like I'm sorry the GB thinks this is awful.

The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.

TBH the GB just gets mad. Other than people complaining there (and being honest it's fans of teams that mostly don't care about OKC at all and paid zero attention to anyone on this team until this) I haven't really seen anything anywhere else. Teams mail it in every year, just this year it's OKC instead of whoever else and some other teams fans are upset because they really desperately wanted to see....*checks notes*.....Al Horford playing in April.


Yeah, I don’t care about the GB. And I honestly wouldn’t care if the Thunder lost by 140 this year. All I said is that I wouldn’t be surprised if the league didn’t want teams consistently losing by 40 and tried to do something about it. They did with the bulls a couple years back:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/06/nba-warns-chicago-bulls-resting-healthy-players-tanking/401687002/

“Throughout this period, we have been careful to distinguish between efforts teams may make to rebuild their rosters, including through personnel changes over the course of several seasons, and circumstances in which players or coaches on the floor take steps to lose games,” said the memo.

“The former can be a legitimate strategy to construct a successful team within the confines of league rules; the latter – which we have not found and hope never to see in the NBA – has no place in our game. If we ever received evidence that players or coaches were attempting to lose or otherwise taking steps to cause any game to result otherwise than on its competitive merits, that conduct would be met with the swiftest and harshest response possible from the league office.”


The league ended up threatening a 100k fine for each game Lopez/Holiday sat out.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#730 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:41 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Like I'm sorry the GB thinks this is awful.

The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.

TBH the GB just gets mad. Other than people complaining there (and being honest it's fans of teams that mostly don't care about OKC at all and paid zero attention to anyone on this team until this) I haven't really seen anything anywhere else. Teams mail it in every year, just this year it's OKC instead of whoever else and some other teams fans are upset because they really desperately wanted to see....*checks notes*.....Al Horford playing in April.


Yeah, I don’t care about the GB. And I honestly wouldn’t care if the Thunder lost by 140 this year. All I said is that I wouldn’t be surprised if the league didn’t want teams consistently losing by 40 and tried to do something about it. They did with the bulls a couple years back:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/06/nba-warns-chicago-bulls-resting-healthy-players-tanking/401687002/

“Throughout this period, we have been careful to distinguish between efforts teams may make to rebuild their rosters, including through personnel changes over the course of several seasons, and circumstances in which players or coaches on the floor take steps to lose games,” said the memo.

“The former can be a legitimate strategy to construct a successful team within the confines of league rules; the latter – which we have not found and hope never to see in the NBA – has no place in our game. If we ever received evidence that players or coaches were attempting to lose or otherwise taking steps to cause any game to result otherwise than on its competitive merits, that conduct would be met with the swiftest and harshest response possible from the league office.”


The league ended up threatening a 100k fine for each game Lopez/Holiday sat out.

I'd venture a guess those guys didn't do it as willingly (trying to find more info on these moves, but the Horford one in particular seemed amicable and might even be something where both sides want him healthy to try to trade later). Like I know people brought up AD and the Pelicans too, but that was an issue because AD didn't agree to it. Heck I'll admit I tune out during blowouts, but it's part of the business (and if Poku were playing I'd be tuning in but the last 2-3 he's missed I've missed as well). And as long as the players and team are OK with it I'm just rolling along as well, they were beating teams with a roster of players mostly 22 and under half the year.

If we're complaining can we complain about the Lakers having a worse record than the Sixers during their worst stretch for 3 years, being incompetent and signing Mozgov/Deng to massive deals, trading assets to move them then falling ass backward into Lebron and AD because they're in LA? Because I think that's more an issue to competition than a team playing its young guys but hey I'm just some guy following the NBA.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#731 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:45 pm

bondom34 wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Like I'm sorry the GB thinks this is awful.

The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.

TBH the GB just gets mad. Other than people complaining there (and being honest it's fans of teams that mostly don't care about OKC at all and paid zero attention to anyone on this team until this) I haven't really seen anything anywhere else. Teams mail it in every year, just this year it's OKC instead of whoever else and some other teams fans are upset because they really desperately wanted to see....*checks notes*.....Al Horford playing in April.


Yeah, I don’t care about the GB. And I honestly wouldn’t care if the Thunder lost by 140 this year. All I said is that I wouldn’t be surprised if the league didn’t want teams consistently losing by 40 and tried to do something about it. They did with the bulls a couple years back:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/03/06/nba-warns-chicago-bulls-resting-healthy-players-tanking/401687002/

“Throughout this period, we have been careful to distinguish between efforts teams may make to rebuild their rosters, including through personnel changes over the course of several seasons, and circumstances in which players or coaches on the floor take steps to lose games,” said the memo.

“The former can be a legitimate strategy to construct a successful team within the confines of league rules; the latter – which we have not found and hope never to see in the NBA – has no place in our game. If we ever received evidence that players or coaches were attempting to lose or otherwise taking steps to cause any game to result otherwise than on its competitive merits, that conduct would be met with the swiftest and harshest response possible from the league office.”


The league ended up threatening a 100k fine for each game Lopez/Holiday sat out.

I'd venture a guess those guys didn't do it as willingly (trying to find more info on these moves, but the Horford one in particular seemed amicable and might even be something where both sides want him healthy to try to trade later). Like I know people brought up AD and the Pelicans too, but that was an issue because AD didn't agree to it. Heck I'll admit I tune out during blowouts, but it's part of the business (and if Poku were playing I'd be tuning in but the last 2-3 he's missed I've missed as well). And as long as the players and team are OK with it I'm just rolling along as well, they were beating teams with a roster of players mostly 22 and under half the year.

If we're complaining can we complain about the Lakers having a worse record than the Sixers during their worst stretch for 3 years, being incompetent and signing Mozgov/Deng to massive deals, trading assets to move them then falling ass backward into Lebron and AD because they're in LA? Because I think that's more an issue to competition than a team playing its young guys but hey I'm just some guy following the NBA.


Ah, found a little more info:

https://www.nba.com/news/reports-nba-warns-chicago-bulls-about-resting-healthy-players

Key word "healthy".

As long as these guys are listed as injured, bummer for the folks up in arms.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#732 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:36 pm

This is a mix of tanking while trying to develop some other worse young players to see who's worth staying with the team.

I don't think resting Dort yesterday had anything to do with the tank. It's not like he was gonna change the outcome of this game.

Just hope we will keep playing those bad line ups. It's just the perfect season (no fans, a lot of games in a short season) to rest your guys/try to develop some other young prospects/improve your lottery odds.

We better go all in on this tanking stuff for the rest of this season because we won't rest SGA next season with the Peake at full capacity. GB gonna be happy if we get unlucky in the lottery but we have to try to get those 40%+ odds of a top 4 pick.

I also enjoy watching Maledon/Poku and being n°1/n°2 options on offense. If we want to make a fast rebuild and allow them to help our team in the future, that's the way to go.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#733 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:46 pm

No SGA for more 10 days? Robinson wasn't good but happy for him...

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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#734 » by bondom34 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:29 am

Figured I'd post this here. Was looking into SGA's numbers, and a thread about Luka's self creation made me want to check updated numbers but here's every player in over 20 years w/ at least 500 shots and a 55% eFG sorted by lowest percentage of assisted shots:

Image

And here's everyone since 2000-01 with at least a 59%TS, 28% assist percentage, and 20 points/game w/ 1000 minutes played:

Image

This is very good company.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#735 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:44 am

I think the only concern with Shai being able to maintain those levels are if his three point shot holds up. I've never thought his shooting would be a long term problem. I don't think this year is a fluke.
bondom34 wrote:The GB gets mad if you are a "treadmill team"

The GB gets mad if you lose.

The GB gets mad if your team is too good.

The GB gets mad if you have a player they don't like.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#736 » by Old Man Game » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:24 pm

They quoted this stat on NBA radio yesterday. Obvious tanking is obvious.

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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#737 » by slick_watts » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:48 pm

we've also lost eight straight by double digits. the record is twelve, tied by houston earlier this season. might have a shot at that one but it'll be tough with the upcoming schedule.

on another note, lu dort is now averaging 1 offensive foul drawn per game. which, based on the data i have from bbr, has never been accomplished before. he's still behind the pace of some of the legendary seasons on a per minute basis (e.g. 2019 ilyasova), but it's slightly unexpected to me that dort has kept up this pace on fouls drawn from last year.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#738 » by slick_watts » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:52 pm

if the league wants to stop tanking, remove incentives. still have a lottery but make it so that every team has equal odds for each pick. boom. done.
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#739 » by Devilanche » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:05 pm

slick_watts wrote:if the league wants to stop tanking, remove incentives. still have a lottery but make it so that every team has equal odds for each pick. boom. done.


Fringe playoff team will then tank instead near the end . Why lose to the first seed in 4 games when you got a 7% (?) chance of the number one pick
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Re: 20-21 OKC Thunder Regular Season News 

Post#740 » by Devilanche » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:09 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I think the only concern with Shai being able to maintain those levels are if his three point shot holds up. I've never thought his shooting would be a long term problem. I don't think this year is a fluke.


I remember reading somewhere about him driving quite a fair bit this year and considering what his injury is reported as and I’m now wondering how much repeated driving at that high a clip is causing the plantar fasciitis

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