Ignore naysayers - city can attract free agents

oksportsguy · Post #1 » by **oksportsguy** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:00 am

Latest from Darnell Mayberry:

http://newsok.com/ignore-naysayers-city-can-attract-free-agents/article/3269686/?tm=1216016158

McG · Post #2 » by **McG** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:38 pm

This article may have had some weight if it wasn't written by someone on Bennett's payroll...

Dtown84 · Post #3 » by **Dtown84** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:41 pm

He raised good points, but when he pointed at Milwaukee and Memphis as small markets that don't struggle with luring free agents I laughed my ass off.

mnkinga23 · Post #4 » by **mnkinga23** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:15 pm

I was surprised that he didn't point to the patron saint of all small market NBA teams...the San Antonio Spurs!

Troubadour · Post #5 » by **Troubadour** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:21 pm

mnkinga23 wrote:I was surprised that he didn't point to the patron saint of all small market NBA teams...the San Antonio Spurs!

Except the Spurs are a dynasty.

That's why they get big-name FAs.

mnkinga23 · Post #6 » by **mnkinga23** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:09 pm

agentzerotoTO wrote:
mnkinga23 wrote:I was surprised that he didn't point to the patron saint of all small market NBA teams...the San Antonio Spurs!

Except the Spurs are a dynasty.

That's why they get big-name FAs.

Which proves my point. The Spurs became a dynasty in a small market through great draft pickups (Ginobili & Parker) and shrewd front office moves.

ljp24 · Post #7 » by **ljp24** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:51 pm

mnkinga23 wrote:
agentzerotoTO wrote:
mnkinga23 wrote:I was surprised that he didn't point to the patron saint of all small market NBA teams...the San Antonio Spurs!

Except the Spurs are a dynasty.

That's why they get big-name FAs.

Which proves my point. The Spurs became a dynasty in a small market through great draft pickups (Ginobili & Parker) and shrewd front office moves.

They already had a legit top-15 player of all time in David Robinson along with the future GOAT power forward Tim Duncan and THEN a top-10 all time coach in Greg Poppoviatch.

PJ is one of the worst coaches in the NBA. Sam P needs to fire him.

mnkinga23 · Post #8 » by **mnkinga23** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:13 pm

ljp24 wrote:They already had a legit top-15 player of all time in David Robinson along with the future GOAT power forward Tim Duncan and THEN a top-10 all time coach in Greg Poppoviatch.

PJ is one of the worst coaches in the NBA. Sam P needs to fire him.

The Spurs drafted both David Robinson and Tim Duncan. They are a team unlike the 2000-2004 Lakers and 2003-present Pistons that have played at a championship level for a prolonged period of time without a big free agent signing or trade. I think that the new team is going to have to build like this and I for one think that the front office can do it

I'm with you on P.J. being a poor coach...I don't think you can win anything with a coach who's nickname is pajamas.

Mad Mike · Post #9 » by **Mad Mike** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:02 pm

lol san antonio being a small market and all doesn't matter because first off no state tax in texas. Second city of san antonio is more beautiful and has more to do than other 2 texas cities of dallas and houston. San Antonio is probably tourism capital of texas because they have sea world, alamo, six flag fiesta texas, riverwalk, great food and one of the best downtowns in the country. Comparing city of San Antonio to any other small market is just foolish.

lou4gehrig · Post #10 » by **lou4gehrig** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:25 pm

mnkinga23 wrote:I was surprised that he didn't point to the patron saint of all small market NBA teams...the San Antonio Spurs!

San Antonio has a metro population of 1.9 million and a median household income of $47k.
Memphis has a metro population of 1.2 million and a median household income of $42k.
Milwaukee has a metro population of 1.9 million and a median household income of $42k.
Oklahome City has a metro population of 1.2 million and a median household income of $42k.

San Antonio and Milwaukee are smaller markets, but OKC and Memphis are minute markets.

Sure, San Antonio is a smaller market, but it has an extra 700,000 people who have alot more money. Oklahoma City is going to follow the path of Memphis and struggle to be financially stable. Memphis has a 4 year old building and they only sold 70% of there tickets this season and ranked second to last in attendance.

Sports Arsenal · Post #11 » by **Sports Arsenal** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:39 am

There is a lot of stuff to do in San Antonio too... Its close to a lot of other cities with lots to do as well...

Post #12 » by **wizkid27** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:00 am

The distance between san antonio and houston is just about the same as OKC and dallas... I think overall the point is, it is all about if the owners are willing to put up the money and if the team is winning. If Memphis was winning right now, players would want to go there. Players weren't exactly flocking to Seattle, because they were losing. Seattle is a big, nice city with a bunch to do. But the team wasn't winning. I would say that with the exception of a few players and a few of the largest or most desirable markets, the only thing city size determines is potentially profits. The things that really determine where players go is $$, wins, and playing time. We've got the playing time to go around, and seemingly committed owners, which have stated getting bball in OKC was #1 and if we make money too, then great! So if on the backs of Durant, Green, and Westbrook we can win some more games, I see no reason that some fairly big FAs wouldn't come here (due to the City that is). I'm sure people have opinions about players not coming due to the Seattle/Owners situation.

shmin1234 · Post #13 » by **shmin1234** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:40 pm

yeah i agree, ok should be able to attract FA's. ones like cj miles. small markets dont bring in big time players unless its from the draft. San antonio is a bad example because they are just great on draft day, which was presti's work btw. once they become a championship competing team, then they can lure in good free agents, but no superstars, just pieces of the puzzle for the right money.

Basketball1 · Post #14 » by **Basketball1** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:30 am

oksportsguy wrote:Latest from Darnell Mayberry:

http://newsok.com/ignore-naysayers-city-can-attract-free-agents/article/3269686/?tm=1216016158

Exactly, those darn naysayers, OKC first big time free agent coup was having to
overpay (two fold) for CJ Miles, the Jazz third string small forward and 11th
man on the roster. What's next the full MLE to lure Rafael Araujo from his Russian
team?

mnkinga23 · Post #15 » by **mnkinga23** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:25 am

shmin1234 wrote:yeah i agree, ok should be able to attract FA's. ones like cj miles. small markets dont bring in big time players unless its from the draft. San antonio is a bad example because they are just great on draft day, which was presti's work btw. once they become a championship competing team, then they can lure in good free agents, but no superstars, just pieces of the puzzle for the right money.

How is San Antonio a bad example when that is exactly the point of the article and this entire thread? You build the organization and the winning culture and they will come.

Basketball1 wrote:Exactly, those darn naysayers, OKC first big time free agent coup was having to
overpay (two fold) for CJ Miles, the Jazz third string small forward and 11th
man on the roster. What's next the full MLE to lure Rafael Araujo from his Russian
team?

First of all, you always overpay for RESTRICTED free agents. If you were to pay the price that everyone thinks that the player is worth, the other team would always match the offer and you would never get the player. Secondly, everyone locally and nationally knows that Miles got this deal on potential. Presti put this deal out there because he thinks that Miles can be the next Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Carlos Arroyo, etc. that thrives once they got more playing time. If he plays well for OKC, you got a complete bargain. If he doesn't, you shrug your shoulders and move on.

McG · Post #16 » by **McG** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:16 pm

mnkinga23 wrote:How is San Antonio a bad example when that is exactly the point of the article and this entire thread? You build the organization and the winning culture and they will come.

Besides the obvious differences in market size/city vibrance as was previously discussed, San Antonio is a HORRIBLE example because it is not just some team that consistently makes the playoffs, it is one of the most successful franchises in NBA HISTORY. There is a big difference between teams that compete and a DYNASTY. And look at the FA's they have signed, guys at the end of their careers who want to win a championship. If you're telling me that the Sonics are the next DYNASY than of course they'll be able to sign FA's, but even if this is their future it is still well over 5 years away.

mnkinga23 · Post #17 » by **mnkinga23** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:06 am

McG wrote:Besides the obvious differences in market size/city vibrance as was previously discussed, San Antonio is a HORRIBLE example because it is not just some team that consistently makes the playoffs, it is one of the most successful franchises in NBA HISTORY. There is a big difference between teams that compete and a DYNASTY. And look at the FA's they have signed, guys at the end of their careers who want to win a championship. If you're telling me that the Sonics are the next DYNASY than of course they'll be able to sign FA's, but even if this is their future it is still well over 5 years away.

If someone can quantify "city vibrance" I'm ready to hear it. Allow me to restate my opinion on this whole thread. San Antonio is the shining example of what a small market team can do if the organization is run properly and both the city and the team are committed to winning. If we were talking in the summer of 1997 after the Spurs had gone 20-62 and David Robinson had missed the entire season, we wouldn't be talking about how they were an indomitable franchise that no one else could aspire to. They won the draft lottery, got Duncan, and the rest is history. Market size is negligible (38th to 45th) and the whole talk of market size is ridiculous because how many championships in the last twenty years have the New York Knicks (1st largest market), Los Angeles Clippers (2nd), Dallas Mavericks (5th), Golden State Warriors (6th), Atlanta Hawks (8th), and Washington Wizards (9th) combined to win?

Basketball1 · Post #18 » by **Basketball1** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:51 am

First of all, you always overpay for RESTRICTED free agents. If you were to pay the price that everyone thinks that the player is worth, the other team would always match the offer and you would never get the player. Secondly, everyone locally and nationally knows that Miles got this deal on potential. Presti put this deal out there because he thinks that Miles can be the next Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Carlos Arroyo, etc. that thrives once they got more playing time. If he plays well for OKC, you got a complete bargain. If he doesn't, you shrug your shoulders and move on.[/quote]

What? Most teams match offers made to their "quality" RESTRICTED free agents but won't
overpay for the 11th man on their team. I've seen enough of CJ Miles during the past
three years - he's all yours. And suggesting that Presti thinks that Miles will be the next Mo
Williams, Sasha Pavloic or Carlos Arroyo does a disservice to Presti, who seems smart, and made
some great moves for the Sonics. And for OKC sake, I hope Miles is better than Arroyo et al.
Face it, OKC paid twice as much as Miles is worth but he'll probably play and put up
good numbers for a 20 win team but who is clearly bench fodder for the Jazz.

Basketball1 · Post #19 » by **Basketball1** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:57 am

mnkinga23 wrote:
shmin1234 wrote:yeah i agree, ok should be able to attract FA's. ones like cj miles. small markets dont bring in big time players unless its from the draft. San antonio is a bad example because they are just great on draft day, which was presti's work btw. once they become a championship competing team, then they can lure in good free agents, but no superstars, just pieces of the puzzle for the right money.

How is San Antonio a bad example when that is exactly the point of the article and this entire thread? You build the organization and the winning culture and they will come.

Basketball1 wrote:Exactly, those darn naysayers, OKC first big time free agent coup was having to
overpay (two fold) for CJ Miles, the Jazz third string small forward and 11th
man on the roster. What's next the full MLE to lure Rafael Araujo from his Russian
team?

First of all, you always overpay for RESTRICTED free agents. If you were to pay the price that everyone thinks that the player is worth, the other team would always match the offer and you would never get the player. Secondly, everyone locally and nationally knows that Miles got this deal on potential. Presti put this deal out there because he thinks that Miles can be the next Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Carlos Arroyo, etc. that thrives once they got more playing time. If he plays well for OKC, you got a complete bargain. If he doesn't, you shrug your shoulders and move on.

What? Most teams match offers made to their "quality" RESTRICTED free agents but won't
overpay for the 11th man on their team. I've seen enough of CJ Miles during the past
three years - he's all yours. And suggesting that Presti thinks that Miles will be the next Mo
Williams, Sasha Pavloic or Carlos Arroyo does a disservice to Presti, who seems smart, and
made some great moves for the Sonics. And for OKC sake, I hope Miles is better than Arroyo
et al.

Face it, OKC paid twice as much as Miles is worth but he'll probably play and put up
good numbers for a 20 win team but who is clearly bench fodder for the Jazz.

mnkinga23 · Post #20 » by **mnkinga23** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:58 am

Basketball1 wrote:What? Most teams match offers made to their "quality" RESTRICTED free agents but won't overpay for the 11th man on their team. I've seen enough of CJ Miles during the past
three years - he's all yours. And suggesting that Presti thinks that Miles will be the next Mo
Williams, Sasha Pavloic or Carlos Arroyo does a disservice to Presti, who seems smart, and
made some great moves for the Sonics. And for OKC sake, I hope Miles is better than Arroyo
et al.

Face it, OKC paid twice as much as Miles is worth but he'll probably play and put up
good numbers for a 20 win team but who is clearly bench fodder for the Jazz.

Value and quality are relative to each organization. If the Jazz have Mo Williams but then they draft Deron Williams (I don't know if he was there when they drafted Deron or not but the example still works) then Mo Williams is then not as valuable to them as he once was. The Bucks then sign him to a deal that they feel is within his value to them and out of the Jazz's value of Mo. Carlos Arroyo may have been a third point guard to you but he had backup value to the Pistons. Same thing with Pavlovic and the Cavs. All of these players would have gotten marginal playing time in Utah but played meaningful minutes for other teams.So Miles earning almost four million a year may be to exorbitant for a 5th wing player but not for a backup SG/6th man type.