The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
- wiff
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The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
So although the Thunder have improved a fair amount from their horrendous start. The lottery is still just a couple months away.
Is winning the lottery the best thing that can happen for this team?
I'll give my two cents after a couple replys.
Is winning the lottery the best thing that can happen for this team?
I'll give my two cents after a couple replys.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
jackpot. draft griffin, trade green for a C or SG, and you're set.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
- big L
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Jackpot, without a doubt. Draft Griffin with the number one, let him and green battle for the starting spot in camp, and see how it works with either coming off the bench. If it doesn't, then you have your trade.
from ny, never been a fan of the knicks...
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
big L wrote:Jackpot, without a doubt. Draft Griffin with the number one, let him and green battle for the starting spot in camp, and see how it works with either coming off the bench. If it doesn't, then you have your trade.
i don't even think you let them battle, i'd trade green on draft day.. green's value will be huge by the end of the year. you can't have a talent like griffin or green coming off the bench when you have glaring holes in your starting lineups, so they would have to do a trade asap imo.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Win lotto draft Griffin
Less potential for a bust
But who would you trade Green for?
I'm pretty high on him so the return I would want would be higher than OKC could get in my opinion
Less potential for a bust
But who would you trade Green for?
I'm pretty high on him so the return I would want would be higher than OKC could get in my opinion
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Well... even if it is a jackpot, it will still be a headache. Green is big time, quickly turning into one of my favorite players in the whole league. With his skill set, I think that he's the guy that can make this team a special one. If they get the #1 pick they HAVE to pick and keep Griffin due to PR. I just don't think anything else would be possible. I don't particularly like/want Griffin, but that's just how it is.
The only scenario where Green stays and we get the #1 pick is if Presti legitimately thinks that a Griffin/Green/Durant frontcourt can work long term. I'm not even saying that it can... but that's pretty much the only way. Durant can't go back to the disaster that was him at shooting guard.
The only scenario where Green stays and we get the #1 pick is if Presti legitimately thinks that a Griffin/Green/Durant frontcourt can work long term. I'm not even saying that it can... but that's pretty much the only way. Durant can't go back to the disaster that was him at shooting guard.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
What makes you guys so sure that Griffin is going to be a stud at this level?
Personally I think Green is going to be a better talent.
I see a lot of K-Mart in Blake Griffin. A guy who is a force at the college level but once he makes it to the NBA he shrinks a couple inches. I'm betting he is under 6'9" come the day they pull out the tape measure.
He doesn't have much range to his jumper. Doesn't have the handles to play SF.
Griffin bullies his way around in the paint and he pounds the glass(which should translate) but I'm just not convinced he will be better than Green.
He may be a better rebounder but that's it.
But every night he is going to be going up against guys who are just as strong, as tall if not taller and have decent hops themselves.
I use the K-Mart analogy because he was drafted so high but really I see more of a Paul Milsap. Who is a nice player but I'd rather have Jeff Green.
And honestly what legitimate C are you going to get for Green? He's not going to land you Yao or Dwight. Or any of the the younger C's who have the dirty word potential draped around their necks, like a Bynum or Oden.
I just see Griffin brewing headaches. If the Thunder didn't have PF I'd be all over him.
This kind of reminds me when people were saying the Sonics should trade Lewis and try to draft Adam Morrison.
Green has proven he can play in this league at a very high level. Griffin hasn't proven crap.
So what happens when you trade Green and Griffin becomes a 14 and 9 guy?
You don't trade a proven commodity like Green for a guy who hasn't played a minute in the league.
I'd rather have the 22pts 8rebs and 3-4dimes Green is going to get you with solid man on man "D"
Personally I think Green is going to be a better talent.
I see a lot of K-Mart in Blake Griffin. A guy who is a force at the college level but once he makes it to the NBA he shrinks a couple inches. I'm betting he is under 6'9" come the day they pull out the tape measure.
He doesn't have much range to his jumper. Doesn't have the handles to play SF.
Griffin bullies his way around in the paint and he pounds the glass(which should translate) but I'm just not convinced he will be better than Green.
He may be a better rebounder but that's it.
But every night he is going to be going up against guys who are just as strong, as tall if not taller and have decent hops themselves.
I use the K-Mart analogy because he was drafted so high but really I see more of a Paul Milsap. Who is a nice player but I'd rather have Jeff Green.
And honestly what legitimate C are you going to get for Green? He's not going to land you Yao or Dwight. Or any of the the younger C's who have the dirty word potential draped around their necks, like a Bynum or Oden.
I just see Griffin brewing headaches. If the Thunder didn't have PF I'd be all over him.
This kind of reminds me when people were saying the Sonics should trade Lewis and try to draft Adam Morrison.
Green has proven he can play in this league at a very high level. Griffin hasn't proven crap.
So what happens when you trade Green and Griffin becomes a 14 and 9 guy?
You don't trade a proven commodity like Green for a guy who hasn't played a minute in the league.
I'd rather have the 22pts 8rebs and 3-4dimes Green is going to get you with solid man on man "D"
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Yep.... as I said... I like Green a lot, and if getting Griffin means Green is gone (which it likely would), then I hope we win more games so we have a lower shot of getting Griffin.
If you trade Green for someone else... then instead of the one guy you know is great, plus a high draft pick that you can roll the dice on, you now have zero guys you KNOW are great and two unknowns.
If you trade Green for someone else... then instead of the one guy you know is great, plus a high draft pick that you can roll the dice on, you now have zero guys you KNOW are great and two unknowns.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
I see the threesome of KD/Green/Blake working.
Is it the defensively or offensively that you guys see it as a problem?
Is it the defensively or offensively that you guys see it as a problem?
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Defensively. You've got all 3 guys in your starting frontcourt that aren't really capable of defending a solid low-post scorer. Griffin is probably the best interior defender of the 3, and he's not really someone (from what I've seen) that I would be comfortable defending the top interior player on most teams.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Well I was thinking a lineup of Westbrook/Green/KD/Griffin/Kristic
I think these five would be able to defend most lineups
I do think a defensive center would still be necessary
I was more worried about defending the 2
I think these five would be able to defend most lineups
I do think a defensive center would still be necessary
I was more worried about defending the 2
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
I think I'd prefer Collison over Krstic in that lineup...
The big issue I see with that is ball-handling. All 5 players would be below average (in my opinion) at both dribbling and passing. On D I think they'd be fine. Sure some shorter/quicker 2s might give Green some problems, but nowhere near the issues they'd have trying to guard him on the other end. I could see that lineup working with a phenomenal point guard, but Westbrook is more the type of point guard that needs a solid 2 next to him to handle some of the load.
The big issue I see with that is ball-handling. All 5 players would be below average (in my opinion) at both dribbling and passing. On D I think they'd be fine. Sure some shorter/quicker 2s might give Green some problems, but nowhere near the issues they'd have trying to guard him on the other end. I could see that lineup working with a phenomenal point guard, but Westbrook is more the type of point guard that needs a solid 2 next to him to handle some of the load.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Defensively for me a well.
For example
Say the healthy Lakers team run out
Bynum, Gasol and Odum.
Who's going to cover Bynum?
I'll like my chances with Green and Durant getting the better end of Gasol and Odum but Bynum is simply way too big for Griffin to challenge in the paint.
The Thunder can score with anyone, they just can't defend that well yet. Someone in the center who can control the paint would be huge for them. I feel an anchor in the center would make the entire team a much better defensive team. It would allow guys to gamble a bit more knowing that they have a big shot blocker who can absorb some of their mistakes.
And honestly I do have my reservations about drafting another C. But they are so damn valuable.
Now that Tyson is gone who else is a legit option? Teams don't trade their starting centers.
If I had a guarantee that for their careers, Thabeet would grab 8pts, 10 rebs and 2-3blks and Griffin would put up numbers of 20 and 10. I'd still take Thabeet.
Because I know he'd be altering a lot more shots than just the couple he sends to the third row.
And I understand the logic behind Griffin have the smallest chance of being a bust and honestly I can concede that point.
I can't say for 100% Thabeet is going to be a stud, there is always the risk of bust. But I think he will be much better than Swift, Petro and Sene.
I really like the fact that the kid has played for one of the best programs in the nation for three years at UConn. That is something Swift, Petro and Sene did not have going for them.
But the biggest reason why I'd be afraid of Blake Griffin is that pressure from the fans would end up moving Jeff Green.
No offense to OKC but I'm betting the typical Thunder fan at this point doesn't really see how good Jeff Green is. Sure everyone loves a home town hero until they find out he isn't that good.
Those are the kind of moves that get your GM fired.
For example
Say the healthy Lakers team run out
Bynum, Gasol and Odum.
Who's going to cover Bynum?
I'll like my chances with Green and Durant getting the better end of Gasol and Odum but Bynum is simply way too big for Griffin to challenge in the paint.
The Thunder can score with anyone, they just can't defend that well yet. Someone in the center who can control the paint would be huge for them. I feel an anchor in the center would make the entire team a much better defensive team. It would allow guys to gamble a bit more knowing that they have a big shot blocker who can absorb some of their mistakes.
And honestly I do have my reservations about drafting another C. But they are so damn valuable.
Now that Tyson is gone who else is a legit option? Teams don't trade their starting centers.
If I had a guarantee that for their careers, Thabeet would grab 8pts, 10 rebs and 2-3blks and Griffin would put up numbers of 20 and 10. I'd still take Thabeet.
Because I know he'd be altering a lot more shots than just the couple he sends to the third row.
And I understand the logic behind Griffin have the smallest chance of being a bust and honestly I can concede that point.
I can't say for 100% Thabeet is going to be a stud, there is always the risk of bust. But I think he will be much better than Swift, Petro and Sene.
I really like the fact that the kid has played for one of the best programs in the nation for three years at UConn. That is something Swift, Petro and Sene did not have going for them.
But the biggest reason why I'd be afraid of Blake Griffin is that pressure from the fans would end up moving Jeff Green.
No offense to OKC but I'm betting the typical Thunder fan at this point doesn't really see how good Jeff Green is. Sure everyone loves a home town hero until they find out he isn't that good.
Those are the kind of moves that get your GM fired.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
wiff wrote:And honestly I do have my reservations about drafting another C. But they are so damn valuable.
Now that Tyson is gone who else is a legit option? Teams don't trade their starting centers.
If I had a guarantee that for their careers, Thabeet would grab 8pts, 10 rebs and 2-3blks and Griffin would put up numbers of 20 and 10. I'd still take Thabeet.
Because I know he'd be altering a lot more shots than just the couple he sends to the third row.
I really like the fact that the kid has played for one of the best programs in the nation for three years at UConn. That is something Swift, Petro and Sene did not have going for them
So taking that into account would you like to explore the option of taking both big men Thabeet and Griffin?
Rolling out a lineup of Westbrook/Green/KD/Blake/Thabeet
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
- wiff
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
How are you going to get the extra pick?
And honestly I don't really like the idea of Green playing SG. I think he could manage "ok" but I don't get excited over it.
And honestly I don't really like the idea of Green playing SG. I think he could manage "ok" but I don't get excited over it.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
Well there is alot of basketball to be played but my deal I posted with sac could net their pick in my eyes anyway
Also why are hesitant with Green to play SG. What would that require he do differently?
Also why are hesitant with Green to play SG. What would that require he do differently?
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
- wiff
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
You know Mac I'd probably would prefer to run Green out at SG over Grffin at C. But I still don't like it.
I don't think Green has a good enough handle or the speed to blow by guys at SG. Sure he would kill them in the post. But like Wiz said I don't like having Westbrook as the other guard in the back court either.
I would probably prefer to run Weaver out there all season over Green because Weaver takes care of the ball and seems to play level headed and under control. He is a nice balance to Westbrook.
I just think winning the lottery creates too many headaches for Presti and Brooks. I'd be more than happy with the #3 pick as long as Harden goes #2.
I don't think Green has a good enough handle or the speed to blow by guys at SG. Sure he would kill them in the post. But like Wiz said I don't like having Westbrook as the other guard in the back court either.
I would probably prefer to run Weaver out there all season over Green because Weaver takes care of the ball and seems to play level headed and under control. He is a nice balance to Westbrook.
I just think winning the lottery creates too many headaches for Presti and Brooks. I'd be more than happy with the #3 pick as long as Harden goes #2.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
wiff wrote:No offense to OKC but I'm betting the typical Thunder fan at this point doesn't really see how good Jeff Green is. Sure everyone loves a home town hero until they find out he isn't that good.
I know that this is the thought that most of this thread is predicated around. I will take it a step further and say, the typical Thunder fan may know that Green is good... may even really, really like him. However, the typical Thunder fan will still like Griffin more due to the OU ties. And that is why to a certain degree I lean towards it being just as much of a headache as a jackpot. Any other team, even if they didn't want Griffin, would be able to trade out of the pick and net themselves some nice assets. I don't think the Thunder can do that, because a lot of their "typical" fan base would see it as turning their back on the hometown kid.
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
wiff wrote:I would probably prefer to run Weaver out there all season over Green because Weaver takes care of the ball and seems to play level headed and under control. He is a nice balance to Westbrook.
I just think winning the lottery creates too many headaches for Presti and Brooks. I'd be more than happy with the #3 pick as long as Harden goes #2.
I would be more comfortable with Weaver too but I just assumed it was me just playing favorites.

I think the best situation is to pick 3rd with Harden and Griffin off the board.
Keep Green. He has earned his spot.
I was just trying to find a situation that would appease everyone
Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
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Re: The #1 pick: Headache or Jackpot?
green's having a great month and has shown some good ability. the problem is that i'm not sure that he's going to consistently perform optimally as a PF (much less at SG - that's not realistic). the durant/green combination is producing crazy numbers right now but neither of them is even an average interior defender. both show much more potential as plus perimenter defender guys, neither of them block shots, and green isn't big enough to really defend the PF position.
it's a catch-22 because really the only way jeff green is going to work as your PF is if you have a shotblocking center who can keep guards honest when they get into the lane. in this draft, hasheem thabeet looks like he could maybe be that player. with a guy like that starting, maybe okc can get away with green and durant at the F spots. presti obviously knows this, since chandler would have been the same thing. i don't think durant/green/westbrook are as bad defensively as the numbers suggest right now - the thunder have NO INTERIOR DEFENSE. even a guy like krstic isn't a great help defender.
if you get griffin, though, you can't play green with him and durant. it makes you WAY too undersized if one of them is at center, and none of those players are going to adequately guard the opposing SG (i'd put durant as the likely one to possibly do this).
lastly, green's numbers are a little deceptive. for example, david west put up 17.1/7.4 in 05-06. these numbers are only marginally better than green's. despite this, west's PER that year was an excellent 19.7. green's this year is 14.8. that's a HUGE difference and that difference is mostly made up of things that west can do as a PF that green hasn't really shown yet (score efficiently, rebound more, block some shots, turn the ball over less).
a guy like blake griffin, who plays near the basket more than green, will probably rebound more and score more efficiently in the nba than green. also, he'll handle the ball on the perimeter less, and therefore turn the ball over less. i like jeff green's game, i think he has an excellent future in the nba. but is he really a PF? do you want a guy at PF who shoots 45%? that turns the ball over a lot on the perimeter? even a guy like jordan hill will post up and score inside for you, probably rebound more, and turn the ball over less on the perimeter than jeff green.
it's a catch-22 because really the only way jeff green is going to work as your PF is if you have a shotblocking center who can keep guards honest when they get into the lane. in this draft, hasheem thabeet looks like he could maybe be that player. with a guy like that starting, maybe okc can get away with green and durant at the F spots. presti obviously knows this, since chandler would have been the same thing. i don't think durant/green/westbrook are as bad defensively as the numbers suggest right now - the thunder have NO INTERIOR DEFENSE. even a guy like krstic isn't a great help defender.
if you get griffin, though, you can't play green with him and durant. it makes you WAY too undersized if one of them is at center, and none of those players are going to adequately guard the opposing SG (i'd put durant as the likely one to possibly do this).
lastly, green's numbers are a little deceptive. for example, david west put up 17.1/7.4 in 05-06. these numbers are only marginally better than green's. despite this, west's PER that year was an excellent 19.7. green's this year is 14.8. that's a HUGE difference and that difference is mostly made up of things that west can do as a PF that green hasn't really shown yet (score efficiently, rebound more, block some shots, turn the ball over less).
a guy like blake griffin, who plays near the basket more than green, will probably rebound more and score more efficiently in the nba than green. also, he'll handle the ball on the perimeter less, and therefore turn the ball over less. i like jeff green's game, i think he has an excellent future in the nba. but is he really a PF? do you want a guy at PF who shoots 45%? that turns the ball over a lot on the perimeter? even a guy like jordan hill will post up and score inside for you, probably rebound more, and turn the ball over less on the perimeter than jeff green.
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