Robbed?: post your complaints

[5DOM]

1. why the same questions haven't been raised about the japanese team

the japanese girl is actually 15. she becomes 16 in the olympics year (2008), and thats not against the rule. if she wasnt born in 1992, yeah she is a cheater.

2. video and link to the video of the Yang Yun interview on national TV where she said she's 14 when she competed in the 2000 Olympics.

i dont have the video and the link to the video of Alexander the Great, but i still believe him.
and i commented about this a couple of times already.

3. links or proofs that the chinese gymnastic team has been caught cheating before

not necessarily the gymnastic team (because yang yun's untouchable), but rasho and i posted one each about other sports like basketball and tennis.

[Blame Rasho]

But I disagree in the part where if you were to present a news article to prove your point, pick and choose what you label as "true" and what you lable as "false" from the same article doesn't exactly strengthen your arguement.

You don't get it do you? After you admit cheating... would you keep saying that you will keep cheating? No, you would say otherwise.

I don't have any faith in what China says... if you want to believe them fine. It doesn't really matter in the end. It is my personal opinion.

My problem is that people actually think that it is wrong to question the ages of China and to believe them when they have a history of changing birthdays in their best interest. You don't go and delete media reports unless there is something wrong or you have something to hide.

The other thing is that people think that the IOC is infallible and that they have the final word in everything. They don't. They have been wrong various times. Are we suppose to believe them no matter what? Hell no.

The Olympics a great event, but it has always been full controversies. It would be stupid to not question some of the things that are being said.

[Slava]

team of dopers complaint about team of false agers?
wow, that's complicated. no wonder it reached 8 pages and is going on.


get a life, whiners and haters.

Take it easy with the name calling there. I've been observing your posts in this thread and this is not the first instance you've done this.

[cap_111]

i dont agree with you at all either.
1. i dont understand why you keep refusing to believe yang yun being underage when noone has a problem with it. i mean do you have to know the source of everything? also im sure the chinese and yang yun herself would have gone crazy if this was some made up bs.
2. im sorry, but IOC should have reversed the call and that korean gymnast should have been awarded the gold medal whether or not his coach protested late. the koreans actually officially protested to the FIG later, and FIG acknowledged their mistakes but nothing was done. see i actually know something about hamm incident, because one of my best buddies is korean, and he went crazy in 2004. and he's telling me that their womens' handball team got robbed yet again today. i don't know how, but that's a different story.

I think taking back medals from PROVEN undeserving athletes is exactly what the IOC would do.

not really. paul hamm absolutely did not deserve his gold. or he should just thank the 3-4 judges who made the mistakes.

Again, thanks for responding.

1. I don't believe that Yang Yun story because it is not logical. Base on what you said, and the nytimes article, she said on national TV that she was 14 when she competed in the olympics, and nothing happens to her. That's like Marion Jones said on national TV that she used performance enchanced drugs and nothing happens to her. I just don't see how that is possible. I don't have to see the original source of everything, but since this story seems impossible, I'd like to check the original source myself. Plus, it's not like looking for weapons in iraq, a link to a video online doens't seem all that hard.

2. I'm not arguing whether Hamm deserves the gold or not. I'm saying that it is absolutely not true that the ioc never reverses its decision. it does when athletes are caught cheating. it takes away their medals. Hamm did not cheat. I understand that in the Hamm incident, the decision is not reversed, but that does not translate to "IOC never reverses a decision already made" which you claimed. Actually, I googled your phrase "IOC never reverses a decision already made", and this came up:
"IOC officials say they have reversed an earlier decision because the government has pledged to ensure the independence of its national Olympic committee"
http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0708/539695.html

and my discredit comment is only referring to your oj simpson mention. I didn't think that was necessary, that's all.

[cap_111]

1. why the same questions haven't been raised about the japanese team

the japanese girl is actually 15. she becomes 16 in the olympics year (2008), and thats not against the rule. if she wasnt born in 1992, yeah she is a cheater.

maybe you misunderstood my question. my question was regarding many claims (for example some of the nbc commentators) that the chinese girls look young, or clearly don't look 16, how come the same thing wasn't said about the japanese team, given their similiar height and weight.

2. video and link to the video of the Yang Yun interview on national TV where she said she's 14 when she competed in the 2000 Olympics.

i dont have the video and the link to the video of Alexander the Great, but i still believe him.
and i commented about this a couple of times already.
[/quote]

I also responded in other posts that I think if I can find videos of Marion Jones admitting using performance enchanced drugs, I should be able to see a video of Yang Yun saying she's 14, right?

3. links or proofs that the chinese gymnastic team has been caught cheating before

not necessarily the gymnastic team (because yang yun's untouchable), but rasho and i posted one each about other sports like basketball and tennis.[/quote]

this is also regarding another poster's comment where he / she said that the chinese gynmanstic team has cheated before, or caught cheating before, so I just thought that was interesting and wondering if there were any sort of news article about it.

[5DOM]

i was under the impression that IOC barely reversed any call (not concerning steroids/doping). I guess I was wrong. btw here is a great article.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com ... ory?page=2

because of the board policy, i can't copy the whole article here, but i suggest everyone reads this.

here is an excerpt on the yang yun part

In addition, "Report from Fu, Guoliang at the Meeting Relating to Hunan Province's Participations in Olympics in Sydney" that was still available online Sunday afternoon http://www.sports.gov.cn/hnfiles/200002.htm, reference was made to gymnast Yang Yun, who participated in the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

"The actual age of gymnastic athlete Yang Yun is only 14. When she first tried in Sydney Games, she attracted attention from gymnastic fields. She has great potential in the future." Yang's career ended prematurely because of injuries.

Yang Yun had become the topic of recent discussions when a YouTube video of a documentary entitled "Yang Yun: My Olympics," was posted. At about 3 minutes, 10 seconds into the video Yang says, "I was 14 years old in Sydney."

but i cant find the youtube vid now. maybe they took that down too.

edit: they did take it down.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=yan ... pics&meta=

[dougthonus]

how do you know for a fact that they cheated?

In the past or now?

In the past because they admitted it in both basketball and gymnastics and possibly other sports as well.

Now, it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to me. This leaves open the possibility of completely unbelievable events such as three separate athletes having their age misreported by multiple media sources and coaches multiple times over a three year period and being incorrect on government spreadsheets reporting the age as well.

[dougthonus]

That's interesting. I didn't know that the Chinese have been caught before for cheating in gymnastics. I read that in the 80s their swimming team has been caught doping, but I haven't read anything about getting caught for gymnastics, and I tried google it but nothing really came up beside this year's olympics. Do you mind posting a link or something to show me when and where and how have the chinese been caught cheating in gymnastics before? Thanks.

One of their gymnasts from the 2000 games admitted she competed underage in an interview.

[5DOM]

the pulled Yang Yun vid is mentioned in this site too:

http://chinacheated.com/

lol at the domain but they actually have scans and everything

[dougthonus]

Yet most American fans were so ready to believe Yi understated his age.

All the NBA scouts I've talked to believe Yi understated his age as do I, but it doesn't matter to me since my team wasn't dumb enough to draft him.

[dougthonus]

then we can never compete with the Chinese again if we just think that since they once cheated, they will always cheat.

No, it's not that they cheated once so that they will always cheat.

It's that they cheated a great number of times in a very specific way. Their culture encourages cheating in this way. Then there is a mountain of evidence suggesting they cheated this way again.

You would look at a psychopathic killer who's killed 10 people on camera, and then is holding a dead body in his hands and say "Well we don't know for sure that he killed him, he could have just found the body".

[5DOM]

You would look at a psychopathic killer who's killed 10 people on camera, and then is holding a dead body in his hands and say "Well we don't know for sure that he killed him, he could have just found the body".

[YiOF]

then we can never compete with the Chinese again if we just think that since they once cheated, they will always cheat.

No, it's not that they cheated once so that they will always cheat.

It's that they cheated a great number of times in a very specific way. Their culture encourages cheating in this way. Then there is a mountain of evidence suggesting they cheated this way again.

You would look at a psychopathic killer who's killed 10 people on camera, and then is holding a dead body in his hands and say "Well we don't know for sure that he killed him, he could have just found the body".

Wtf? how do you know the Chinese culture encourages cheating in this way? Many American Athletes use steroid, so it must be American culture encourages cheating in that way?

[5DOM]

i think and hope he didnt mean it that way

[dougthonus]

team of dopers complaint about team of false agers?
wow, that's complicated. no wonder it reached 8 pages and is going on.


get a life, whiners and haters.

We are the ones who caught and prosecuted our dopers.

We didn't orchestrate the whole thing then try to destroy evidence to cover it up after the fact.

[Dry_Fish]

you don't mean this do you

Documents purporting to show that a number of American athletes, including Carl Lewis, were allowed to compete in the Olympics after failing drug tests prove suspicions of US drug cover-ups, says the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Dr Wade Exum, the former USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated and the Orange County Register.

He said they showed that athletes such as Lewis and Mary Joe Fernandez tested positive but were allowed by the US Olympic Committee to compete anyway

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 07806.html

[5DOM]

i thought they werent performance enhancing drugs. were they?

[dougthonus]

Wtf? how do you know the Chinese culture encourages cheating in this way? Many American Athletes use steroid, so it must be American culture encourages cheating in that way?

Sorry, it's not Chinese culture, but the lying about your age in Chinese sports is a common occurrence according to the people I've talked to involved in Chinese sports. There's nothing about the Chinese culture that makes them liars more so than any other culture. My point was meant to be specific to this type of cheating. I believe it's very common in China in certain sports and that I believe it's generally expected among those in those sports and that others have to do it in order to compete with everyone else who is doing it.

As for your point about the US, hell yes. The sports culture in certain areas absolutely encouraged the use of steroids, and while I wouldn't go out and say "xyz is definitely guilty because they were from that era" (just like I wouldn't say every Chinese athlete lies about their age) I would definitely believe someone was guilty when there is some evidence pointing that way without having to have a failed drug test because the cheating was so prevalent. I think Roger Clemons and Barry Bonds are guilty of using steroids without failed drug tests. I don't feel I need them to feel confident in their guilt.

[dougthonus]

you don't mean this do you

Documents purporting to show that a number of American athletes, including Carl Lewis, were allowed to compete in the Olympics after failing drug tests prove suspicions of US drug cover-ups, says the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Dr Wade Exum, the former USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated and the Orange County Register.

He said they showed that athletes such as Lewis and Mary Joe Fernandez tested positive but were allowed by the US Olympic Committee to compete anyway

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 07806.html

I wasn't aware of that, but if US athletes were allowed to compete after failing drug tests and those tests were covered up and not excused they should have their medals stripped, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's ridiculous if that it was allowed to happen if that's true (I know nothing about it really). If the US doping agencies covered it up then the people involved should be fired if still employed as well.

[Rocky5000]

They tested positive for **** like Robitussin.