GQStylin wrote:Al n' Perk No Layups! wrote:Here's a ranked list of athletes who have won multiple Gold medals in one olympics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mu ... e_OlympicsFirst off, Phelps is not only first, but he also holds the third spot for his Athens performance. Second and more relevant, there are only four swimmers on there with a "lion's share" of gold medals: Phelps, Spitz, Kristin Otto (who won six in 1988 in Women's events) and Matt Biondi (who won five in 1988 in Men's events). No other swimmers have a "lion's share" of golds (5 or more, maybe four). NONE. I think they're missing Thorpe, but other than that, this is the list. It's got the career list just for kicks too, with Phelps being five ahead on second after only competing in TWO Olympics.
Firstly, I think we might be discussing two different things, or we might not be. I'm not saying Phelps at this point isn't the better olympian and is one of the best of all time, while Bolt is only on his way to being one. But answering the original question of this thread, Phelps 8 golds vs Bolt 9.69, I'm saying what Bolt did is more impressive.
And fact is, is that what Phelps done has been done before. Look at list of number of medals in a single olympics and at least half of them are swimmers who have won multiple medals. How many have done it on track? Three. Three out of that whole list. And you're telling me its not easier to dominate in swimming than it is on track?
1) The list is also missing Paavo Nurmi (three and five), Alvin Kraenzlein (four) (who are both comically listed just below in the time line of most golds at one games), Carl Lewis (four, two and two), Ray Ewry (three, three and two), Wilma Rudolph (three), Babe Didrikson-Zaharias (two), Jackie Joyner-Kersey (two), Edwin Moses (two), Michael Johnson (two), Maurice Greene (two), Hicham El Guerri (two), Kelly Holmes (two), Veronica Campbell (two), Hicham El Guerrouj (two) and probably more who have two.
It's also missing swimmers Amy Van Dyken (four and two), Lenny Krayzelburg (three), Kosuke Kitajima (two and two), Domenico Fioravanti (two), Brooke Bennet (two), Diana Mocanu (two) and Yana Klochkova (two and two) and probably more who also have two.
That said, none of this is important because...
2) The only swimmers who have won five or more gold medals in one games are Michael Phelps, Mark Spitz, Matt Biondi (five) and Kristin Otto (six). This is still a response to your claim that in every Olympics one swimmer wins a "lion's share" of the golds.
I know Bailey's record has been broken a few times before, but what I'm saying is that how many swimming records last 12 years and 3 olympics like Bailey's 100m record has? Not many at all. Look at Michael Johnson's WR in the 200m and 400m. The 200m hasn't been touched since and the 400m only once by Johnson.
Even if swimming records haven't been broken as often as dozens, it has been broken far more often than either the 100m, 200m or 400m has.
The 200m and 400m sprint have no relevance to this argument. You said "Take a look at Bailey's 100m record. It took 12 years and three olympics before someone broke it" which is incorrect as it has been broken six times. On the other hand the 4x100 Medley relay and the 4x100 free relay have been broken less times and when you take Phelps out of the picture so have the 200m Butterfly, the 200m Medley and the 400m Medley.
No he didn't. I just watched an interview TODAY and they we're discussing it and Phelps himself said "I was trying to see the black line at the bottom of the pool but I couldn't. I wasn't sure when I was gonna hit the wall so I just kept swimming. I was not very happy about that."
Not being able to see and winning is amazing. It's not just strokes, it's staying centered so you don't collide with the lane barriers and being able to see where your competitors are so you know what you have to do. Phelps was at a huge disadvantage and still won.
I don't see why its such a big thing that Phelps was 'blind' during his swim. Phelps has swam tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of laps and I'm sure this isn't the first time that he's had some sort of goggle or suit malfunction before and that he has a backup plan to deal with it, IE counting strokes or something else. Every swimmer deals with it. So while it's a bother, its not something that's going to hinder him that much. The same with Bolt's shoelace being untied. I'm sure its not the first time its happened to him during a race either, which is why its a minor hinderance too unless it happened at the beginning of the race.
He said "I was trying to see the black line at the bottom of the pool but I couldn't. I wasn't sure when I was gonna hit the wall so I just kept swimming. I was not very happy about that." so he obviously didn't have a backup plan, and no every swimmer doesn't deal with it, otherwise the goggle companies would be out of business.
That said it's not that big of a deal, it's amazing that he did it but it's a side story, the headliner is eight gold medals, in the same vein I don't see what the big deal about Bolt throwing his arms out at the end of a race is. It's a side story, with the headliner being breaking the 100m record. Which brings us to breaking the 100m WR vs winning an unprecedented eight gold medals in one Olympics AND winning the most career golds by a LARGE MARGIN, and quite frankly what Phelps did was more impressive.
You might be the only person on the whole planet who didn't think that Bolt shut it down the last 15-20 metres. You can clearly see him turn off the jets and coast to the finish line. Every single expert and track athlete said the same thing. Even the Phelps nut-riding king NBC network experts said the same. Yet you're somehow correct?
I think almost everyone watching the race live was astounished that Bolt coasted the last part of the race and still destroy the field and set the first sub 9.7 time ever in the 100m. And watching it on replay and seeing him raise his arms before he crossed the finish line was shocking. When even the most trash talking, most confident sprinters are shocked at what they saw, you know what Bolt did was something special.
I'm not even the only person in this thread who thinks he didn't shut it down. If you watch his legs instead of his upper body you can clearly see him moving at the same pace. The only media people who were stunned by this were the commentators doing the race, and they were doing that to hype it up, the same way on every great comeback victory in a team sport the commentators declare it the "Greatest comeback of all time."
On the otherhand, I don't think anyone watching Phelps is similarly shocked that he could win 8 gold, but rather deeply impressed that such a feat was accomplished.
They're not shocked because they expected him to do it. They're amazed he is that great.
So we are discussing the same thing. Again there have been multiple medal winners in the olympics the past, so what Phelps did isn't completely new. Spitz only won one less than Phelps and Andrianov has won eight and four others have won seven medals in an olympics. So in quantity and quality it has been almost matched before in the past.
1) There have been multiple record holders in the 100m, so by the same logic what Bolt did isn't completely new.
2) Andrianov won eight golds, IN HIS CAREER. Don't twist facts. The highest number of Golds he won in a single Olympics was four, half of what Phelps just got.
3) We're talking about Golds, not any medal. No one besides Phelps or Spitz have ever gotten seven golds at one Olympics. That is an indisputable fact.
Has anyone before Bolt ever run below 9.7? Never.
Has anyone before Phelps won eight Gold medals in one Olympics? Never. Has anyone before Phelps won 14 career Gold medals? Never.
And certainly not in a trot to the finish line.
Again, didn't trot, ran. But if you insist, certainly no one has won a gold medal and broken a swimming record while blind.
To me, what Bold did is on the level of Roger Bannister running the 4 minute mile for the first time. Never been done until now.
Funny, neither has winning eight golds in one Olympics or 14 career golds.
The path travelled down by Phelps has nearly been accomplished on a few occasions.
As has running a sub 9.7, and just to clairfy, the path that Phelps traveled has nearly been accomplished on ONE occasion.
To put it another way, Its like Bolt landed on the moon for the first time ever, while Phelps circled the earth after Yuri Gagarin did it, but for a longer period of time.
That's not a fair way to put it. I could state the reverse and it would be as valid an argument. In fact, Tyson Gay ran a 9.68 but it did not count because of a 4.1 m/s windspeed.
Tyson Gay is most notable for running the fastest 100 meters in history, although his time of 9.68 is not officially recognized because of a 4.1 m/s windspeed, exceeding the IAAF legal limit of 2 m/s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyson_GaySo really, people have been closer to accomplishing what Bolt did than what Phelps did.
