Who Takes the Cake in Total Medal Count

[deNIEd]

About Gold total vs medal total.

I think it's gold without question, but only to a certain extent.

Saying if you would rather win 1 gold or 10 bronze is just silly.

As of now, the count is fairly close, 35 China, 34 USA. Say it was 38 USA and 34 China. China has double our golds, so ultimately which one is more impressive?

China currently has 22 while USA has 10 for gold.

And thank god for Phelps, without him, we'd only have 5 golds lol.

[Posey H8er]

China.

You can't beat a centralized government the size of China and the level of value the Chinese government/nation has put into these olympics.

America just simply doesn't care enough to win over China.

With gold medals China is in the drivers seat. But with total medals the United States will win. There are so many medals left in T&F, volleyball (both men/women, indoor/sand), basketball (men and women), softball, and even more swimming medals are left.

[C.Delfino]

Ever since the start of the modern games in 1896 the International Olympic Comitee, as organizers of the Summer and Winter Olympics, has always officially sorted countries by total gold medals won and almost every country has followed this model. As far as I know, the sorting of countries based on Total medals without regard of color is an American-only oddity started by the US media in order to attract more viewers, better display the dominance of the US overall and later mask the gap existing in the 70s between the Soviet Union and the USA. At the time Soviets would lead USA by over 20 golds but the total medal count was much closer, not to mention that East Germany would top the US in golds from time to time. It's kind of weird to see every non US media outlet sort countries the official way, but the US way of sorting by total medals has its validity too.

[Ming Kong!]

Phelps has 7 gold medals, vs 7 for the rest of the US

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

China.

You can't beat a centralized government the size of China and the level of value the Chinese government/nation has put into these olympics.

America just simply doesn't care enough to win over China.

Well we did in 2004 (total and gold), 2000 (both), 1996 (both), 1992 (both), 1988 (both), 1984 (both) and 1954 (both) which is every time the PRC has sent a team to the Olympics.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

Ever since the start of the modern games in 1896 the International Olympic Comitee, as organizers of the Summer and Winter Olympics, has always officially sorted countries by total gold medals won and almost every country has followed this model.

It's not some conspiracy to make up for short comings, we've lead the Gold medal count in every Summer Olympics since the Unified Team beat us 45-37 in 1992 (also beating us in total medals 112-108). Any medal is good, so we put more importance on total medals.

[Rocky5000]

I want the USA to win but China has intentionally cherry picked the easiest events and targeted them for golds. They have that whole 120 Gold program they've been running. Additionally they have 12 and 14 year-olds competing in gymnastics plus home-court advantage.

[C.Delfino]

Ever since the start of the modern games in 1896 the International Olympic Comitee, as organizers of the Summer and Winter Olympics, has always officially sorted countries by total gold medals won and almost every country has followed this model.

It's not some conspiracy to make up for short comings, we've lead the Gold medal count in every Summer Olympics since the Unified Team beat us 45-37 in 1992 (also beating us in total medals 112-108). Any medal is good, so we put more importance on total medals.

Definitely not a conspiracy of any sort, as it seems to have started before the Soviet dominance, I did not try to imply that the sole reason the US in general counts medals in different fashion than the IOC and the rest of the world is some irrational obsession to make themselves look better than they are. There are very valid arguments to be made about total medals being more important than total golds, I think that is why some track and field tournaments award points for medals in a 5-3-1 format. Anyway, I was just trying to remind people that this whole "total golds vs total medals" is more of a US-only debate as the IOC never felt compelled to change the official sorting rules, and golds has always been the official standard.

[canoner]

I want the USA to win but China has intentionally cherry picked the easiest events and targeted them for golds.

This makes no sense at all. What is easy? Is it easy if you dominate the competition? In that case, are Phelps 8 golds easy golds? Let us not be childish here.

[Rocky5000]

I want the USA to win but China has intentionally cherry picked the easiest events and targeted them for golds.

This makes no sense at all. What is easy? Is it easy if you dominate the competition? In that case, are Phelps 8 golds easy golds? Let us not be childish here.

Read this. This is what I am talking about. I don't know if you misinterpreted me, but China is going for where the gold is plentiful and therefore easier to come by. This is just the rowing example, but they've done it in many other events as well. The US certainly doesn't have 2000 rowers on our payroll.

China's dearest Olympic goal is to top the gold medals table.

At the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, the country finished second only to the United States, with four fewer gold medals than America's 36.

To win the race for gold this summer, Beijing has been working to improve its chances in areas where the gold medals are plentiful — focusing especially on sports that have not been China's traditional strong suits.

China has never won a gold medal for rowing, for example, but they are hoping to change that this summer.

A Focus On The Obscure

To that end, China has launched the mysterious sounding "Project 119", named for the 119 gold medals it was targeting. These are in sports which have not been popular in China, like rowing, swimming and track and field.

This project was launched in 2001, and this year, ambitions are even bigger since the games are on home turf, and even more medals — 122 - are available in those events.

Under Project 119, China has spent millions of dollars on new facilities, bringing in foreign coaches and scouring the country in search of new talent.

One of the country's rising stars is Zhang Liang, a 22-year-old rower who towers at 6 feet 4 inches tall.

"I love rowing, and I train to win glory for myself," says Zhang, who took up the sport six years ago.

Today, Zhang is national single sculls champion, the event which involves a single person rowing.

With the hopes of his nation pinned on him, Zhang pursues a rigorous training schedule. He wakes up at 5 each morning to train, returns to his regimen after breakfast, and caps off his day with four hours of afternoon training.

He is one of approximately 2,000 professional full-time rowers on the government payroll.

'We Want To Compete And Fight'

National team coach Zhou Qinian explains that Beijing is focusing on rowing because 14 gold medals will be awarded in that sport this summer.

"Rowing is a major Olympic sport with many gold medals," says Zhou. "The more events and gold medals there are, the more we want to compete and fight."

[TheRaptor!]

Easier to come by? Are you kidding me? They picked those because it pays off more. I mean would you rather train for your whole life for an event with ONE medal or 14? Common sense to me. If you are trying to compete in something you were never strong at pick the one that is most rewarding.

[canoner]

^^^ First, there is no other sport that has close to as many golds as T&F and swimming, in both of the two team USA grab medals by dozens. Therefore I cannot see the point of accusing others work on ares where golds are plentiful.

Secondly, I think the competitive spirit should be ENCOURAGED, instead of criticized. I don't understand why so many people take issue with Chinese desire to win. Maybe if more Americans we have here had that desire they would be able to excel from competition. The willingness to go into non-traditional areas and adapt to competition is also something lacking in this country in recent history. The Chinese on the contrary have benefited from their strategic thinkings.

Chinese fund their sports through government. Well the chinese government has the money. Ask Prez. Bush where he can get the money. Universities spent a lot of money on athletic programs, and as a whole may very well outspend chinese government.

Finally, numbers are always gonna be huge when it comes to China. It is said the number of Chinese playing basket ball is greater than the population of US.

[deNIEd]

China.

You can't beat a centralized government the size of China and the level of value the Chinese government/nation has put into these olympics.

America just simply doesn't care enough to win over China.

Well we did in 2004 (total and gold), 2000 (both), 1996 (both), 1992 (both), 1988 (both), 1984 (both) and 1954 (both) which is every time the PRC has sent a team to the Olympics.

Outside of 04, you really can't put any weight into the previous olympics, simply because China kinda sucked at everything before then.

Especially this year, China has put their nation into pretty much a standstill these past few years and put the olympics as their main priority.

For example, the majority of the athletes practice in facilities identical to the olympic ones in both Athens and Bejin. Why? It gives the Chinese athletes and advantage of familiarity with their environments, and because the government can do whatever they want.

I know a few people currently in the olympics, and they are part of events/sports that doesn't really pay. Because of that, they also have to have other jobs in order to support themselves. In China, practicing is your support as the government pays for everything.


China has begun to put more and more weight into international competitions and will be getting better and better. When you have an unlimited supply of people and money, you are bound to get the results that you desire.

[Blame Rasho]

I think alot of people underrate homecourt advantage. Historically the host team is exponentially better when they have their own fans cheering for them.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

China.

You can't beat a centralized government the size of China and the level of value the Chinese government/nation has put into these olympics.

America just simply doesn't care enough to win over China.

Well we did in 2004 (total and gold), 2000 (both), 1996 (both), 1992 (both), 1988 (both), 1984 (both) and 1954 (both) which is every time the PRC has sent a team to the Olympics.

Outside of 04, you really can't put any weight into the previous olympics, simply because China kinda sucked at everything before then.

Not true, they were third in 2000, fourth in 1996 and fourth in 1992. Before that they sucked.

I think alot of people underrate homecourt advantage. Historically the host team is exponentially better when they have their own fans cheering for them.

That is very true, homecourt results in some huge medal counts.

[Rocky5000]

Easier to come by? Are you kidding me? They picked those because it pays off more. I mean would you rather train for your whole life for an event with ONE medal or 14? Common sense to me. If you are trying to compete in something you were never strong at pick the one that is most rewarding.

Easier to come by as in, you have 14 shots to get a medal as opposed to one. If you have a slight chance of getting a medal, because you're not very good, roll the dice and go for the one with more opportunities. Pretty much exactly what you said. It's a birdshot approach.

With a centralized government, a country can do stuff like that. In the USA all of our Olympians play for the love of the sport, of those great T&F guys, half of them seem to work at Home Depot. China OTOH, spends on average $7 Million dollars per gold medal, and puts children in athletic schools as early as 4 years old.

[deNIEd]

Not true, they were third in 2000, fourth in 1996 and fourth in 1992. Before that they sucked.

I was exaggerating a little, but my point was that China being a true legitimate contender hasn't been for a few years. Especially within these past 8 years or less. (I was commenting on the fact of the strength of a centralized government's sport program)

With a centralized government, a country can do stuff like that. In the USA all of our Olympians play for the love of the sport, of those great T&F guys, half of them seem to work at Home Depot. China OTOH, spends on average $7 Million dollars per gold medal, and puts children in athletic schools as early as 4 years old.

Exactly, Chinese athlete's sole purpose in life is training. Which is why the pressure is so much higher on them. American athletes, for events like track, ping pong, trampolining, gymnastics, water polo, etc. etc. the vast majority of the athletes need another source of income to support themselves.

It's simple.
China cares more about Olympics than we do.

[XcalibuR]

US with a bazillion bronzes.

[5DOM]

I think alot of people underrate homecourt advantage. Historically the host team is exponentially better when they have their own fans cheering for them.

Yeah. one of my Korean friends was upset because the Chinese crowd at the Archery game between Korea and China would make noises at the point of Koreans' releases.

[canoner]

I think alot of people underrate homecourt advantage. Historically the host team is exponentially better when they have their own fans cheering for them.

Yeah. one of my Korean friends was upset because the Chinese crowd at the Archery game between Korea and China would make noises at the point of Koreans' releases.

Hello NFL and NBA. Keep quiet when the road teams do snap count or attempt free throws.

I watched part of the video clip on NBC. There were just about as many Koreans as Chinese fans. Korean players just chocked that day and the rainy weather put a bit more uncertainty in play.