Michael Phelps, greatest Olympian ever?

[Doctor MJ]

yeah, he is a dominant swimmer for sure, but you can't really compare a swimmer to other athletes (from different sports).

a weight lifter or a basketball player, for example, can only win one medal at a single olympics.
would you say kitajima, the japanese swimmer who has won 2 gold medals in beijing, is a greater olympian than the weight lifter simply because he's won more medals? maybe, maybe not.

but i do agree that phelps is easily one of the greatest olympians ever, and THE greatest swimmer.

You absolutely can compare relative dominance in a sports though, and swimming is one of the marquee events of the Olympics.

[dougthonus]

I'm more impressed with Thorpe. Thorpe destroyed his competition to a bigger degree, carried his relay team to a massive upset, and dominated in freestyle- the most impressive category imo. He's also the only swimmer ever to medal in 100, 200 and 400 in the same olympics. And offcourse Thorpe won when he and Phelps swam head to head.

He raced Thorpe well before he was in his prime. Even prior to reaching his prime he scored 8 medals at one Olympics. Before he hit his prime.

Phelps is great at what he does, but let's face it, he's had a lot of luck too. The Serb with short nails, and Bernard with the choke job of this Olympics.

Without such luck he'd only have 11 golds and 2 more then the next closest guy and been the high medal winner and most dominant performer in 2 consecutive Olympics.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm more impressed with Thorpe. Thorpe destroyed his competition to a bigger degree, carried his relay team to a massive upset, and dominated in freestyle- the most impressive category imo. He's also the only swimmer ever to medal in 100, 200 and 400 in the same olympics. And offcourse Thorpe won when he and Phelps swam head to head.

Phelps is great at what he does, but let's face it, he's had a lot of luck too. The Serb with short nails, and Bernard with the choke job of this Olympics.

Thorpe is clearly one of the best swimmer of all time, but I don't see how you can put him in Phelps league. One of the things that seems pretty clear to me, is that Phelps has trained for this like a decathlete. He hasn't focused on any one event, he's focused on mastering everything, and keeping the mental and physical discipline to work through an exhaustion that Thorpe has never touched. To succeed with that, while having many races where he looks like a man among boys, is a far greater accomplishment. Truly, if Phelps were able to take the time he needed to rest between events, I don't think there's any doubt that his gold medal total would soar past 8. That's incredibly scary.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

I'm more impressed with Thorpe. Thorpe destroyed his competition to a bigger degree, carried his relay team to a massive upset, and dominated in freestyle- the most impressive category imo. He's also the only swimmer ever to medal in 100, 200 and 400 in the same olympics. And offcourse Thorpe won when he and Phelps swam head to head.

Phelps is great at what he does, but let's face it, he's had a lot of luck too. The Serb with short nails, and Bernard with the choke job of this Olympics.

Please... Thorpe won five golds, two silvers and a bronze. Phelps has 13 golds and two bronze. Thorpe won his two individual events by 2.41 in Sydney and by .52 and .26 in Athens. Phelps has won his individual races by .04, .52, 1.64, 3.55 in Athens and by 1.89, .01, .67, 2.29, and 2.32 in Beijing. Thorpe helped his team to two golds and a silver in relays. Phelps helped his team to four golds and a bronze in relays, with one more relay to race.

Phelps is by far a better swimmer than Thorpe, it's not even a legit argument to state otherwise.

[5DOM]

phelps is a much much better overall swimmer than thorpe who almost only swam freestyle.

but i like thorpe better in freestyle. who know what thorpe could have achieved in watercube pool + lzr swimsuit.

it's a shame thorpe retired so early. (basically stopped cometing at 22~23)

[TrueRain]

Why is it that all the people that are trying to diminish what Phelps has done, just happen to be from other countries?

[dougthonus]

People in the US overhype him?

People out of the US seem to like to hate on the US?

[redux46]

Why is it that all the people that are trying to diminish what Phelps has done, just happen to be from other countries?

Honestly, I would put Carl Lewis as a better Olympian than Phelps. It's just a fact that swimming awards too many medals.

[eyeatoma]

People in the US overhype him?

People out of the US seem to like to hate on the US?

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

[5DOM]

Why is it that all the people that are trying to diminish what Phelps has done, just happen to be from other countries?

Honestly, I would put Carl Lewis as a better Olympian than Phelps. It's just a fact that swimming awards too many medals.

bu.. bu. but.. Carl Lewis is American, and you are from Canada!
How could this happen?

[galeon110]

Hands down, greatest Olympian EVER, and probably best in or lifetime. This guy's going down as a legend.

[canoner]

I doubt anyone is diminishing what Phelps has achieved. One has to be stupid to do so.

The argument, a legitimate one IMO, is that you cannot judge greatness solely based on the number of medals. The reason is there are so many more medals in swimming that comparing Phelps to great athletes in other sports is not fair. Even if you look at the level of domination, there have been other athletes who dominated their competitions to greater degree but the number of olympian gold is limited to them.

Phelps has broken a list of records now. Let us just stick to what can be verified by indisputable fact and leave our subjective judgment out.

[High 5]

People in the US overhype him?

People out of the US seem to like to hate on the US?

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

Thing is, no one has put down Bolt. At least no one I have seen. People just want to shove aside everything Phelps has done because he's a swimmer. As I said earlier, I have a hard time saying Phelps is the greatest Olympian ever, but he's hands down the greatest Olympian in this Olympics.

[Doctor MJ]

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

Speaking just for myself, I'm just reacting to the statement that 1 race surpassed all of what Phelps' achieved. To be perfectly honest, where it anyone else to have accomplished what Bolt did, I'd be giving it significantly less credit than I'm giving Bolt (because I know how Bolt has emerged). My favorite basketball player is Canadian, my favorite soccer players are Brazilian, my favorite tennis players are from Sweden and Serbia. As an American, I get so many fellow citizens winning athletic events that I don't necessarily feel any pull toward them.

So yeah, bottom line for me, any bias I have is not based on my own patriotic homerism.

Beyond that, it's funny to me that in this thread about Phelps being the greatest Olympian, the whole debate in most Americans minds would probably be between Phelps and other Americans (Carl Lewis anyone?). It's not a question of the US media hyping Phelps to drown out foreigners, its about hyping Phelps to generate hype for ratings.

[tkb]

Greatest Olympians ever:

Summer games: Michael Phelps, USA (HM: Carl Lewis, USA).
Winter Games: Bjørn Dæhlie, Norway.

[TheGlyde]

Its Carl Lewis over Phelps for me.

Greatest swimmer ever easy, but not greatest Olympian in my mind, theres just too many strokes in Swimming it makes it hard to compare to other sports.

Lewis may have won 20 gold medals if they had the 100m sprint, 100m hop, 100m sack race, 100m egg & spoon race, 400m medley of all 4 and 200 medley of all 4...

Fantastic though, but King Carl for me.

[dougthonus]

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

I don't see anyone putting down Bolt. I think his 100m race is singularly more impressive than any single race Phelps did. I just don't think 1 event vs 8 golds is more impressive regardless of the event. I also don't think the 100m is some godsend event that is the most important thing at the Olympics. I didn't think the 100m was so great when US athletes won it either (which has been pretty frequently). It's just 1 event.

Lewis may have won 20 gold medals if they had the 100m sprint, 100m hop, 100m sack race, 100m egg & spoon race, 400m medley of all 4 and 200 medley of all 4...

Well Phelps competes in both different distances and strokes. He didn't just compete in 100m competitions.

If Lewis competed at different distances in all the events that were
100m, 200m, 400m, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, long jump, triple jump, 100x4 relay, 200x4 relay, and 400x4 relay to compete in.

[TheGlyde]

Lewis may have won 20 gold medals if they had the 100m sprint, 100m hop, 100m sack race, 100m egg & spoon race, 400m medley of all 4 and 200 medley of all 4...

Well Phelps competes in both different distances and strokes. He didn't just compete in 100m competitions.

If Lewis competed at different distances in all the events that were
100m, 200m, 400m, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, long jump, triple jump, 100x4 relay, 200x4 relay, and 400x4 relay to compete in.

Come on, the difference between distances in the two sports is completely different, someone medaling in the Olympics in more than 2 swimming distances is much more common than someone even qualifying for the Olympics in more than 2 track distances, its not comparable.

The strokes are also far more similar to each other than track & field events, the 100m and Triple Jump are totally different to each other, and utilise totally different muscles, goals and skills, freestyle and butterfly, not so much.

[eyeatoma]

I don't see anyone putting down Bolt. I think his 100m race is singularly more impressive than any single race Phelps did. I just don't think 1 event vs 8 golds is more impressive regardless of the event. I also don't think the 100m is some godsend event that is the most important thing at the Olympics. I didn't think the 100m was so great when US athletes won it either (which has been pretty frequently). It's just 1 event.

You're right, I didn't word that properly. What I meant was that people were trying to minimize or brush off what bolt did just because he didn't win 8 gold medals. First of all, its totally unfair to compare the two because there aren't 8 events that Bolt can compete him that would test his physical abilities. All the races that Phelps swims in are variations of his particular sport...swimming.

Bolt is still going to be competing in the 200 m, and 4x100m. If there were more races like someone said, the 100m skip, running the 100m backwards, they would in essense be similar variations to what Phelps is competing in. Note, Phelps is not competing in the long distance swimming comps like the 800 metre. Neither is Bolt.

The one event that Bolt has competed at is something that Phelps has not participated in. The race testing who is the fastest man on land is the 100m...The race testing who the fast swimmer on the planet is the 50m as well as the 100m...Both of which Phelps has not competed in...

I'm not trying to say what Phelps has done isn't impressive. Far from it... Without a doubt he is the most successful olympian of all time. But as far as who is more awe inspiring, has the ability to shock the audience, and perform a superhuman feat, I believe Bolt does a better job at doing it. This wouldn't even be a debate if Bolt did this running his heart out, going full speed the entirety of the race. But thats not the case...Granted Phelps did dominate a couple of races by a body length or two, but it was no where near as shocking as what Bolt has done. There is no competition in the world that has to be more physically demanding, requiring every muscle of your body to work in perfect harmony than the 100m final. This is why it is considered to be the crown jewel of the olympics. Man has been obsessed with speed for eons. Thats exactly why the crowds are able to take to the competition so easily. If humans lived in the water, what Phelps is doing would be so impressive that Bolt couldn't even be mentioned.

[eyeatoma]

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

Speaking just for myself, I'm just reacting to the statement that 1 race surpassed all of what Phelps' achieved. To be perfectly honest, where it anyone else to have accomplished what Bolt did, I'd be giving it significantly less credit than I'm giving Bolt (because I know how Bolt has emerged). My favorite basketball player is Canadian, my favorite soccer players are Brazilian, my favorite tennis players are from Sweden and Serbia. As an American, I get so many fellow citizens winning athletic events that I don't necessarily feel any pull toward them.

So yeah, bottom line for me, any bias I have is not based on my own patriotic homerism.

Beyond that, it's funny to me that in this thread about Phelps being the greatest Olympian, the whole debate in most Americans minds would probably be between Phelps and other Americans (Carl Lewis anyone?). It's not a question of the US media hyping Phelps to drown out foreigners, its about hyping Phelps to generate hype for ratings.

Yeah, I'm should clear that up, that I'm not generalizing all Americans by saying that everyone has homeristic tendencies towards athletes who are from their own country. Yeah its great to support someone from your country, but what I believe is more important is to acknowledge a truly brilliant performance with the respect it deserves with a completely unbiased point of view.

I applaud you for taking that route...