madskillz8 wrote:Well, thanks. Did you really read what they refer to though?
I did read the relevant part, yes. I did skim the appointment parts at the end, though, have to be honest about it.
And in the interest of transparency, I do also have to say this:
When re-reading it just now, I realized that my initial claim that Chris Roberts was the IBA Secretary General and CEO at the time was incorrect. Chris Roberts, at the time, was the IBA Development Director and he was
not the one that made the decision to disqualify the two athletes in question. That was the decision of George Yerolimpos, the then-IBA Secretary General and CEO, who was fired less than 3 months after that meeting.
madskillz8 wrote:Part 6 simply shows that IBA, in contrast to what you portrayed in this thread, is transparent with their processes, democratic, and by no means a one-man-decides-all organization. Definitely more than I expected after reading all these awful things about them in this thread.
The IOC announcement on the other hand is trying to emphasize the minor details in the decision making process INSTEAD OF discussing the actual topic. They are trying to avoid that. Because they have no balls to say, "we don't care if they are intersex or transgender or etc, we let them compete in women's category". See the above shared link to see their stance on the subject.
Well, reading the "IBA minutes" report published in 2023, it is clear that they were facing an unusual case which is folded during in the middle of the tournament. At that point, they had to decide as soon as possible as two boxers are tested to have XY chromosomes. As it is an unexpected case which requires an immediate a decision, CEO and secretary (top officials) taking responsibility and coming up with the decision to recommend ban these two players. Then, board were having a legit discussion because it needed to be approved together, with majority votes. After different views and concerns were presented, they were indeed voting to ban these two players.
Yes, I know - ideally, you write board members about the situation, collect their views in a report and discuss the report on a meeting to make a decision first, then you ratify. But "ideally". If you are in the middle of a tournament, where there is a scheduled game a few hours later, you cant go with this kind of procedure that would normally take a week or so. According to them, they received results after semi finals (March 24, 2023). The meeting was held on March 25, 2023 - 10:00 AM, with final game is scheduled at 18:00.
The only, albeit minor mistake in the process that they were notifying athletes before this discussion (we are talking about 4-5 hours difference here), because it seems like they are panicking as the tournament goes on and the clock is ticking for the next round. After all, if they won't ratify, they would have had to inform them again that they can continue. Sure this mistake could have been avoided by staying calmer during the crisis, but it is easier said than done. I don't want to believe IOC is trying to use this minor mistake to reject IBA's decision without even discussing the test results.
Thus, reading this report and all the legit discussion on the decision and still claiming it is a one-man-decision because of that minor panic-mode mistake makes no sense. Zero.
The announcement you shared just shows IOC is trying to avoid discussing the actual subject - those two having XY chromosomes. The decision's being solely made by CEO (which is not true) or Nadia Comanaci (also not true) is not a valid reason for IOC to look the other way.
In the interest of transparency once again, here's the relevant part of the minutae:
6. Update on sport & development related matters
Mr. Marko Petric, IBA Head of Sport, presented two cases of the athletes from Algeria, Imane
Khelif, and Chinese Taipei, Lin Yu-ting, who, competing at the IBA Women’s World Boxing
Championships in India, failed to meet eligibility rules, following a test conducted by an
independent laboratory.
It was proposed to ratify the decision made by the IBA Secretary General and CEO to disqualify
both athletes and reinstate the athlete from Thailand, Janjaem Suwannapheng, who lost to the
Algerian boxer in the semi-finals. This decision would allow Janjaem Suwannapheng to fight
in the finals in the IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships.
The Board asked for clarification as to why this issue was being brought up at the end of the
Championships when the concerned athletes already made their way through different stages
of the event.
IBA Secretary General and CEO explained that testing was conducted upon the request of the
Technical Delegate and Medical Jury of the Championships. The results became available in
seven days and the IBA Secretary General and CEO, acting on behalf of IBA, notified the
athletes immediately about their disqualification, giving them twenty-one days to appeal the
decision to CAS.
Mr. Yerolimpos confirmed that similar testing was conducted by a different independent
laboratory with the same athletes at the previous edition of the IBA Women’s World Boxing
Championships in Istanbul, Turkey in 2022. However, the results were received only upon
conclusion of the event, hence the athletes were not disqualified back then.
Mr. Kremlev asked the IBA Secretary General and CEO and Sport Department if it was
possible to take preventive actions not allowing the concerned boxers to compete in New Delhi,
provided that the results of the first test were received shortly after the Championships in
Istanbul. He also emphasized the importance of safeguarding athletes’ health. IBA President
also stated that he is in support of the two proposals because it is high priority for IBA to act
on the received test results and thus protect the competition’s integrity and ensure compliance
with the IBA Rules and Regulations.
Mr. Yerolimpos confirmed that IBA has the results from two independent laboratories in two
different countries at its disposal, both of which indicate that the athletes do not meet one of
the eligibility criteria to continue competing at the Championships. Referring to the President’s
question, IBA Secretary General and CEO claimed that the situation was closely followed by
him personally and the IBA Sport Department from the moment of athletes’ registration to their
arrival to India, which is when IBA could legally act on the matter. Another test was not
possible to conduct when the athletes were outside IBA control until they arrived to New Delhi,
where they passed medical check and passed necessary tests.
Mr Adel Bouda, Acting Ambassador of Algeria in New Delhi, was invited to present the
position of the Algerian side and requested a second opinion on the issue.
The proposal to ratify the decision taken by the IBA Secretary General and CEO on
behalf of IBA to disqualify Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting from the IBA Women’s World
Boxing Championships was approved by the majority vote with 1 abstention by Mr.
Abdeljaouad Belhaj and 1 vote against by Mr. Jose Laureano.
The proposal to reinstate Janjaem Suwannapheng who lost to Imane Khelif in the semifinals
for Janjaem Suwannapheng to compete in the finals was approved by the majority
vote with 3 abstentions by Mrs. Marta Forcen Celaya, Mr. Yousuf Al-Kazim and Mr.
Jinquiang Zhou and 2 votes against by Mr. Jose Laureano and Mr. Abdeljaouad Belhaj.
It was also agreed that IBA should reinstate and move up all boxers who were competing
in medal contests (QF onwards). This would automatically give them WR points as well.
That is written in the minutae (which were linked in the IOC's statement).
The IOC claims that the decision was initially taken solely by the IBA Secretary General and CEO and only later ratified by the IBA board. The IBA minutae does support that claim.
You can definitely claim extingent circumstances here but that doesn't make the IOC's claim inaccurate and it definitely doesn't make it a lie.
If you want to claim that the way I presented it was inaccurate, have at it. After all, I was definitely wrong about who the Secretary General and CEO was at the time. I have no idea how I misread it but the fact is that I did and that I accused the wrong person.
But does that make the IOC's statement inaccurate? Nope, it doesn't. The mistake was part of my argument, not the IOC's statement.
As for the IBA and whether they are democratic or not.
Well ->
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/iba-extraordinary-congress-votes-against-holding-new-election-2022-09-25/Sept 25 (Reuters) - Russian Umar Kremlev will remain president of the International Boxing Association (IBA) after its extraordinary congress on Sunday voted by a significant majority against holding a new election, leaving the sport's Olympic future uncertain.
Dutch candidate Boris van der Vorst's hopes of challenging Kremlev for the presidency ended after 106 delegates voted against a re-run of the election, with 36 in favour and four abstaining.
Kremlev was elected unopposed in May after Van der Vorst was declared ineligible. The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) ruled in June that Van der Vorst was wrongly prevented from standing.
So, to recap:
1) The IBA wrongly prevented Van der Vorst from standing for president.
2) Kremlev (who was already the incubent president before the election) run unopposed.
3) The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled in Van der Vorst's favour.
4) The IBA said "we don't care" and refused to hold a new election.
That is not democratic behavior in the slightest.
Also, from that same article:
The IBA suspended the Ukrainian federation on Friday, leaving it unable to cast a vote. The federation had written to IBA members on Thursday calling for Kremlev to resign or be voted out of office.
The IBA does not recognise Kyrylo Shevchenko as president of the Ukrainian federation but instead considers Volodymyr Prodyvus, an ally of Kremlev who left Ukraine after the Russian invasion in February and is now an IBA vice-president, as head.
And neither was this democratic. This is pretty clearly a politically-instigated exclusion.
A little disappointed that Izaac Kennedy (bmx racing) crashed as he went to the same school as my son, but that’s the nature of the sport.
