bisme37 wrote:
Haha the wiener guy was someone else. A French athlete in the decathlon I think.
This is Mondo Duplantis, who is actually American but competes for Sweden in honor of his mother. World record holder in pole vault and better than anyone else by a mile.
Mavrelous wrote:Nuntius wrote:1) There is no evidence that Khelif and Yu-ting actually have XY chromosomes. The official statement of the IBA does not actually say what kind of test they failed and why. All we know is that the president of the IBA, Umar Kremlev, said that this is why they were disqualified in an interview with Russia Today but, afaik, he hasn't provided any evidence for his claim.
That's just asinine...
The IBA is the body that tested her and its president gave the statement, he is liable to defamation if he is lying, that's evidence and a good one at that, it's twisted to suggest otherwise.
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:Nuntius wrote:1) There is no evidence that Khelif and Yu-ting actually have XY chromosomes. The official statement of the IBA does not actually say what kind of test they failed and why. All we know is that the president of the IBA, Umar Kremlev, said that this is why they were disqualified in an interview with Russia Today but, afaik, he hasn't provided any evidence for his claim.
That's just asinine...
The IBA is the body that tested her and its president gave the statement, he is liable to defamation if he is lying, that's evidence and a good one at that, it's twisted to suggest otherwise.
The IBA is not reliable and the IBA didn't officially state that Khelif has XY chromosomes.
OTOH there have been a number of interviews coming home it's president who is a Russian oligarc close to Putin and who aligned IBA to the Russian agenda (that is undermining the IOC who excluded Russia from the Olympics).
A guy making unprofessional and offensive remarks can not be considered a reliable source.
Mavrelous wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
That's just asinine...
The IBA is the body that tested her and its president gave the statement, he is liable to defamation if he is lying, that's evidence and a good one at that, it's twisted to suggest otherwise.
The IBA is not reliable and the IBA didn't officially state that Khelif has XY chromosomes.
OTOH there have been a number of interviews coming home it's president who is a Russian oligarc close to Putin and who aligned IBA to the Russian agenda (that is undermining the IOC who excluded Russia from the Olympics).
A guy making unprofessional and offensive remarks can not be considered a reliable source.
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
The IBA is not reliable and the IBA didn't officially state that Khelif has XY chromosomes.
OTOH there have been a number of interviews coming home it's president who is a Russian oligarc close to Putin and who aligned IBA to the Russian agenda (that is undermining the IOC who excluded Russia from the Olympics).
A guy making unprofessional and offensive remarks can not be considered a reliable source.
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
It's invalidated by the fact that it has been banned by the IOC for lack of transparency and corruption, as well.
Only a Putin fan could consider that credible, as anything coming out of Russia (yes, the guy moved the operations to Russia and Gazprom Is the main sponsor).
Mavrelous wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
That's just asinine...
The IBA is the body that tested her and its president gave the statement, he is liable to defamation if he is lying, that's evidence and a good one at that, it's twisted to suggest otherwise.
The IBA is not reliable and the IBA didn't officially state that Khelif has XY chromosomes.
OTOH there have been a number of interviews coming home it's president who is a Russian oligarc close to Putin and who aligned IBA to the Russian agenda (that is undermining the IOC who excluded Russia from the Olympics).
A guy making unprofessional and offensive remarks can not be considered a reliable source.
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
WarriorGM wrote:Are there people here in favor of banning basketball players who are over 7 feet because it is unnatural and gives an unfair advantage?
madskillz8 wrote:WarriorGM wrote:Are there people here in favor of banning basketball players who are over 7 feet because it is unnatural and gives an unfair advantage?
It is a very absurd argument IMO. 'cause the answer is obvious: Yes, IF AND ONLY IF there are two categories like 7+ft tall players and less than 7ft - I'm in favor of banning 7+ft players in 7-ft player's category. Otherwise, no.
There are categories like 55-62-69kgs in boxing, because the strength of punches makes it all the difference in that individual sport. It all depends on the sport, and how it is structured. Basketball is a team sport with players have different roles. Like all other team sports.
And have you ever thought about why age categories exist in youth basketball leagues, even though there are no age restriction in pro-leagues? Hmm maybe, otherwise we cannot talk about the existence of U15 basketball if 28 years are allowed to play?
Thus, in basketball the GOAT is 6'6 Jordan, not 7'7 Muresan. Nowhere near. Now, think about a fight between Pachinko and Tyson. Lol, forget about Tyson, think about Pachinko vs that stupid youtuber. Do you think Pachinko has a chance even though the former is an all-time great boxer and the latter is, well, a youtuber?
If the contribution of XXs and XYs to the athletic performance is not an issue at all, then what is the point in having NBA and WNBA to begin with, just make NBA is an open category by mixing it and make NBA an open category, thus Diana Taurasies Aja Wilsons and Sabrina Ionescus of all people can find another career for themselves because the contribution of XXs and XYs. Just give university athletic scholarships without these historical men/women categories based on well documented biological differences of individual sports as well. It is 2024 bro, we're all equal and free of all these artificial bounds that inferior previous generations has dictated us, yeahh.
Thus, instead of getting an access to a good undergrad education, these hundred thousands women can contribute to the Walmart and Albertsons', thus American economy. Great idea, let's do that to make America great again.
[url][/url]
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
P.S.: I swear, now I understand classical feminists' stance against liberal (progressive, democrat, pro-identity politics, whatever you call it) feminists more clearly than ever. Thank you RealGM.
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
The IBA is not reliable and the IBA didn't officially state that Khelif has XY chromosomes.
OTOH there have been a number of interviews coming home it's president who is a Russian oligarc close to Putin and who aligned IBA to the Russian agenda (that is undermining the IOC who excluded Russia from the Olympics).
A guy making unprofessional and offensive remarks can not be considered a reliable source.
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
It's invalidated by the fact that it has been banned by the IOC for lack of transparency and corruption, as well.
Only a Putin fan could consider that credible, as anything coming out of Russia (yes, the guy moved the operations to Russia and Gazprom Is the main sponsor).
madskillz8 wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
It's invalidated by the fact that it has been banned by the IOC for lack of transparency and corruption, as well.
Only a Putin fan could consider that credible, as anything coming out of Russia (yes, the guy moved the operations to Russia and Gazprom Is the main sponsor).
Well, that's just a way of discrediting IBA on politics war. IBA vs IOC dispute is not about is not about corruption. It is very political indeed. Don't forget, IOC is still partnering with very corrupt federations like FIFA.
IBA's testing was always legit, and boxing, like other similar sports (wrestling, etc.) is a very corrupt to begin with. IBA's testing, which is cooperating with ITA, successfully eliminated tons of doping cases in the last decade.
You will be surprised but IBA's testing, thus doping bans are still seen legitimate by IOC, unless it is not about gender, since IOC is pro-open women's category, and it rejects sex testing. Recently, a Turkish boxer who is recently caught red-handed in IBA testing still went to Paris, just to learn that IOC is not allowing him as well, based on IBA testing and the approval of ITA even though the case is still open.
https://ita.sport/sanction/international-boxing-association-iba/
WarriorGM wrote:You bring up the core issue though: Who makes the categories?
It is the main point of issue in a lot of controversies.
When does that thing in the womb become a baby?
When does a person become a full and equal citizen?
Today it's debated whether this person belongs in the women's category.
Yesterday it was debated should a black guy play in a white league.
Maybe paying attention to the controversies of the past might give you an idea of why people argue the way they do.
WarriorGM wrote:madskillz8 wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
It's invalidated by the fact that it has been banned by the IOC for lack of transparency and corruption, as well.
Only a Putin fan could consider that credible, as anything coming out of Russia (yes, the guy moved the operations to Russia and Gazprom Is the main sponsor).
Well, that's just a way of discrediting IBA on politics war. IBA vs IOC dispute is not about is not about corruption. It is very political indeed. Don't forget, IOC is still partnering with very corrupt federations like FIFA.
IBA's testing was always legit, and boxing, like other similar sports (wrestling, etc.) is a very corrupt to begin with. IBA's testing, which is cooperating with ITA, successfully eliminated tons of doping cases in the last decade.
You will be surprised but IBA's testing, thus doping bans are still seen legitimate by IOC, unless it is not about gender, since IOC is pro-open women's category, and it rejects sex testing. Recently, a Turkish boxer who is recently caught red-handed in IBA testing still went to Paris, just to learn that IOC is not allowing him as well, based on IBA testing and the approval of ITA even though the case is still open.
https://ita.sport/sanction/international-boxing-association-iba/
Olympics boxing is currently under the auspices of the Olympics not the IBA. Thus Olympics rules apply. If one wants to box or watch an event under the IBA, watch that and not the Olympics.
The IBA inserting itself into the Olympics now is like that attention-seeking ex trying to badmouth the former partner.
WarriorGM wrote:Are there people here in favor of banning basketball players who are over 7 feet because it is unnatural and gives an unfair advantage?
madskillz8 wrote:Ok, then there's no reason for trying to discredit IBA like 50 other posts in this thread. Maybe IOC can start being more consistent with rejecting all the testing by IBA then. Not cherry-picking based on its political stance.
So-called Olympic rules: passport + how athlete identifies himself/herself - it allows Lia Thomas (she/her) who attends men's races as a 21 yo, can kick other women swimmers' ass so to speak. If that's your stance, that's ok.
Buckets22 wrote:WarriorGM wrote:Are there people here in favor of banning basketball players who are over 7 feet because it is unnatural and gives an unfair advantage?
This already happened back in 1936 when USA had Frank Lubin and Joe Fortenberry - 6'6 and 6'8 players. The teams wanted to ban them for being too tall. FIBA didn't do it, but agreed on not giving out MVPs to players over 6'6/200cm tall until the WW2 kicked off.
Nuntius wrote:We aren't talking about the average person here, though. We're talking about elite athletes.
That is why I asked what I asked. If the claim is that athletes like Semenya and Khelif have an advantage due to their intersex condition (which, again, is only speculative when it comes to Khelif and Yu-ting and only proven for Semenya) then shouldn't we measure how their performances stack up against other female athletes of their sport? Shouldn't that be the basis of the argument? The actual performance deviation that these athletes have, not some vague average.
WarriorGM wrote:Buckets22 wrote:WarriorGM wrote:Are there people here in favor of banning basketball players who are over 7 feet because it is unnatural and gives an unfair advantage?
This already happened back in 1936 when USA had Frank Lubin and Joe Fortenberry - 6'6 and 6'8 players. The teams wanted to ban them for being too tall. FIBA didn't do it, but agreed on not giving out MVPs to players over 6'6/200cm tall until the WW2 kicked off.
Didn't know that. Thanks for the nugget.
Just goes to show that what's old is new again and we're all just having the same discussion. Maybe people can take the opportunity to learn from the past.
Mavrelous wrote:Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
The IBA didn't, the president of the IBA did.
The "guy" is the president of an official sport organization, he made the remarks in his capacity as the president, he's not some guy of the internet.
You may not like him, but he represents the IBA and he made the statement that's evidence from the most reliable source in the IBA.
Evidence isn't invalidated by who Nuntius and Ryoga Hibiki like and don't like, it's assessed based on the position and knowledge of the people making the claims.
It's invalidated by the fact that it has been banned by the IOC for lack of transparency and corruption, as well.
Only a Putin fan could consider that credible, as anything coming out of Russia (yes, the guy moved the operations to Russia and Gazprom Is the main sponsor).
Yeah, that's very mature and rational approach.