RealGM

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:44 pm**

And another example: 2000 Sydney Olympic, women all-around gold/silver/bronze winners were 20/18/21 respectively. Where was the age advantage for 16-year-olds?

Bella and Karolyi were just being sore losers.

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:45 pm**

if the rule is in place and some countries abide by them, then isn't the IOC at fault for not punishing those countries who cheat?

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:49 pm**

the age being better/worse is not what I wanted to emphasize because it is irrelevant

and actually Bella Karoyli supports allowing younger athletes to compete, just as long as you enforce and apply the rule fairly, and he was very gracious and congratulatory to the Chinese team

your arguments do nothing to address the real issue (not following the rules) and blindly arguing (like saying that Karoyli is a sore loser, when you haven't even heard what he said) is pointless

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:52 pm**

also, again, this has nothing to do with winning or losing, there is an age limit in place and the countries that follow it are being punished

the country could finish 10th for all I care

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:00 pm**

so you don't think the changing of ages, deleting documents and web pages (even ones that show the age as 16), previous statements by state officials, and previous history of age falsification by the government, and the fact the IOC is very corrupt, is at least suspicious

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:14 pm**

also, both He and this Yang girl had people all messing up their ages for all this time I guess

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/ ... emale.html

how do you ignore this, but agree with the "new versions" (that were also deleted later) which can easily be controlled by the Chinese government and also the state documents (which they can and will falsify)?

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:53 am**

I don't know where all of this sore loser talk came from. The question of the gymnast's ages came out before the events even started. Any team would want to investigate these claims if they lost to a team that cheated. And if age didn't matter in gymnastics then why would China's best gymnasts be under the age of 16? Obviously because like many people have said before, there are advantages to being younger like being more flexible and having less developed bodies. If I could choose I would have no rule on age. But it is a rule and one team can't violate it if others cannot.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:14 am**

LOL Totally look like 16 year olds.

Oh, how cute, her teeth are finally coming in!

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:31 am**

RockTHECasbah wrote:the age being better/worse is not what I wanted to emphasize because it is irrelevant

and actually Bella Karoyli supports allowing younger athletes to compete, just as long as you enforce and apply the rule fairly, and he was very gracious and congratulatory to the Chinese team

your arguments do nothing to address the real issue (not following the rules) and blindly arguing (like saying that Karoyli is a sore loser, when you haven't even heard what he said) is pointless

I agree. If you read the thread, you would see that I wrote on page 6: "But that is irrelevant to this matter on hand."

I was merely commenting on Bella's statement that underage gymnasts have great advantages. That is sore loser argument because reality does not back up his statement.

Bella did not need to comment on advantage/disadvantage of age. He could have said "the rule is there and let us go with it" and that is all it is relevant. IF you can prove that He cheated, she should give back the medals, I agree with that too.

However, there is no proof that there was any cheating. Suspicion is not enough. Whatever "evidences" the critics has been hanging on to has been reviewed by IOC and has been decided non-verifiable. You either come up with new evidence or provide a way to verify old evidence (I don't know how you verify webpage contents is 100% accurate). Nothing is happening here and you keep saying that the girls have cheated as if that had been determined. I don't know what that makes you.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:36 am**

Well there is no "proof" that OJ killed his wife either. Just some very convincing evidence.

The only reason the IOC is not going to do anything is because they do not want to cause anymore embarrassment to China than what has already been done.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:41 am**

Posey H8er wrote:Well there is no "proof" that OJ killed his wife either. Just some very convincing evidence.

And he was not thrown in jail for that. As I said there are always "evidences" on both sides of a dispute. That is why we have a system to make the call instead of letting the mob decide.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:04 am**

That is sore loser argument because reality does not back up his statement.

The greatest gymnastics performance in the history of the Olympics was done by someone under 16, so apparently, reality DOES back up that statement.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:20 am**

dougthonus wrote:
That is sore loser argument because reality does not back up his statement.

The greatest gymnastics performance in the history of the Olympics was done by someone under 16, so apparently, reality DOES back up that statement.

I see that is your logic. If there is one 16 year old kid smarter than you, than all 16-year old are smarter than you.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:43 am**

canoner wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
That is sore loser argument because reality does not back up his statement.

The greatest gymnastics performance in the history of the Olympics was done by someone under 16, so apparently, reality DOES back up that statement.

I see that is your logic. If there is one 16 year old kid smarter than you, than all 16-year old are smarter than you.

You're being ridicolous, its proven by many gymnastics experts that being younger improves his/her showing.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:24 am**

ljp24 wrote:
canoner wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
The greatest gymnastics performance in the history of the Olympics was done by someone under 16, so apparently, reality DOES back up that statement.

I see that is your logic. If there is one 16 year old kid smarter than you, than all 16-year old are smarter than you.

You're being ridicolous, its proven by many gymnastics experts that being younger improves his/her showing.

That's true. Once a girl starts filling out and looking more like a woman, plus gets heavier and longer, all the events gets harder. Your centre of gravity goes up and increased length makes all the turning and flipping harder.

The opposite is true for men. The events are more strength based, like the rings, so you need to fill out and become a man before really excelling.

Best age for women in this sport is 12 to 15/16. For men it's in their 20s.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:44 pm**

Yeah, I've seen how top female gymnasts just can't improve after the age of 16. The best they can do is hang on to as much of what they had at 16 as they can.

So I can't believe Shawn Johnson at 16 now, can make it back in 2012, no matter how much she wants to.

Expectations are so high, she can't get much better, and she will get worse by 2012. That makes it so much more difficult to stay on to age 20.

(Which is why the age limit is such a terrible rule (IMO) -- when the olympics is held only every 4 years.)

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:48 pm**

I see that is your logic. If there is one 16 year old kid smarter than you, than all 16-year old are smarter than you.

I'm not comparing 1 person who is 14 to another person who is 16. I'm comparing a person who is 14, to that same person later on in life.

The best performances in the history of gymnastics have been done by those under 16. Those same people were eligible to perform again older than 16, but failed to match what they did when they were younger.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:14 pm**

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... &type=lgns

Who to believe? What will come out as the historical truth?

Official: Faulty paperwork caused confusion on age

BEIJING (AP)—China’s deputy sports minister has attributed the confusion about the age of one of its gold medalist gymnasts to a paperwork mistake during a team transfer.

At last year’s China’s Cities Games, Chinese officials decided to move He Kexin, who won two gold medals during the Beijing Games, from a local team to the national team. China’s deputy sports minister Cui Dalin said Sunday that it was during this transfer that a “misunderstanding appeared” about her age.[...]

There is no deadline for the investigation, and the Chinese have insisted the entire team is old enough to compete.

“The international federation has required the delivery of birth certificates and all the documents like family books, entries in schools and things like that,” IOC president Jacques Rogge said Sunday. “They have received the documents, and at first sight it seems to be OK.”

Cui said the Chinese Gymnastics Federation had “actively cooperated” with the FIG and that checks had confirmed “the ages of the members of our gymnastics delegation entirely conform to the requirements for participation in the Beijing Olympic Games. “

This is sounding disturbingly like a repeat of Iraq and WMD. Certain groups in US government have predetermined Iraq guilt, keep pushing it on credulous US media and public. The US govt insists Iraq had WMD, Iraq insists it had none. The US insisting the UN declare Iraq guilty of WMD illegalities. The UN investigating and saying see no evidence of Iraq WMD and cannot confirm US accusations. US shows off lots of 3rd hand evidence and discrepancies as "proof" of guilt. Iraq is outraged at the accusations and tries pushing back. The US keeps insisting that denial and outrage is only more proof of wrongdoing. The UN sends more inspectors to investigate, find nothing, cannot confirm any US evidence. The US keeps insisting... We know how that story ended.

How will this end? Hold on to your belts, will it end with US 'liberate' China to free all the oppressed underaged looking Chinese gymnast girls.

What does it say about USA, seeing threat, guilt and conspiracy everywhere, behind every corner, after every setback? Where has respect, good sportsmanship, and all that other pretense of "olympic ideal" gone? Perhaps it is just has to be expected with all the big $$$ and prestige on the line in the olympics. We may as well be fighting WW3. Still, it's way better than fighting a real war. :-|

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:39 pm**

dacher wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news;_ylt=AiAAiJ6FZHpHN.1czDaAucDQ1Zl4?slug=ap-gym-underagechinese&prov=ap&type=lgns

Who to believe? What will come out as the historical truth?

Official: Faulty paperwork caused confusion on age

BEIJING (AP)—China’s deputy sports minister has attributed the confusion about the age of one of its gold medalist gymnasts to a paperwork mistake during a team transfer.

At last year’s China’s Cities Games, Chinese officials decided to move He Kexin, who won two gold medals during the Beijing Games, from a local team to the national team. China’s deputy sports minister Cui Dalin said Sunday that it was during this transfer that a “misunderstanding appeared” about her age.[...]

There is no deadline for the investigation, and the Chinese have insisted the entire team is old enough to compete.

“The international federation has required the delivery of birth certificates and all the documents like family books, entries in schools and things like that,” IOC president Jacques Rogge said Sunday. “They have received the documents, and at first sight it seems to be OK.”

Cui said the Chinese Gymnastics Federation had “actively cooperated” with the FIG and that checks had confirmed “the ages of the members of our gymnastics delegation entirely conform to the requirements for participation in the Beijing Olympic Games. “

This is sounding disturbingly like a repeat of Iraq and WMD. Certain groups in US government have predetermined Iraq guilt, keep pushing it on credulous US media and public. The US govt insists Iraq had WMD, Iraq insists it had none. The US insisting the UN declare Iraq guilty of WMD illegalities. The UN investigating and saying see no evidence of Iraq WMD and cannot confirm US accusations. US shows off lots of 3rd hand evidence and discrepancies as "proof" of guilt. Iraq is outraged at the accusations and tries pushing back. The US keeps insisting that denial and outrage is only more proof of wrongdoing. The UN sends more inspectors to investigate, find nothing, cannot confirm any US evidence. The US keeps insisting... We know how that story ended.

How will this end? Hold on to your belts, will it end with US 'liberate' China to free all the oppressed underaged looking Chinese gymnast girls. :)

What does it say about USA, seeing threat, guilt and conspiracy everywhere, behind every corner, after every setback? Where has respect, good sportsmanship, and all that other pretense of "olympic ideal" gone? Perhaps it is just has to be expected with all the big $$$ and prestige on the line in the olympics. We may as well be fighting WW3. Still, it's way better than fighting a real war. :-|

Stop over dramatizing this situation. The Iraq one is a ridiculous analogy. The US isn't seeing conspiracy everywhere. Everyone is seeing conspiracy in a country reporting ages as one thing for several years, and then all of a sudden in time for a competition with an age limit changing that age to what's required to get several gymnasts to be able to compete. Circumstantial? Yes. Convincing? For a lot of people, yes. Especially when it has happened before.

Where has respect and Olympic ideals gone? People outside of China are asking that question about the Chinese gymnastics team, frankly.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:42 pm**

manun wrote:
Well my grand grandparents are from china, then they moved to india and got my grandparents. Then they got my parents, they moved to sweden and met eachother there and gave birth to me.
So u tell me what country i belong 2 T_T

Well I would say you're of CHINESE decent that was born in Sweden. So I think saying you're Swedish w/o mentioning your true nationality is deceiving, trying to say you have no bias towards the Chinese gymnast when you really do.

RealGM

IOC orders investigation into He Kexin's age

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