Basketball - Day 7 Game Thread Aug. 12th

[OnceUponADime]

Keep in mind also that Boban Marjanović AND Nemanja Bjelica both sat out this year; the U.S. would have lost today had they played.

LeBron and Steph both sat out this year; the U.S. would be winning by higher margins had those guys been playing.

Well obviously, but for the U.S. it is common for the very best players to pass up on playing.

Yea but we can't just look at the absence of other players on the other teams without recognizing that Team USA is missing the best and second best player in USA in LeBron and Curry.

[bender235]

can you read?

I never said they were of the same caliber as LeBron/Durant/Steph, the difference in skill in terms of the focus of the game says a lot. For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up. If the NBA was played in a game more tailored to skill like it is on the FIBA level you'd see a much better product in terms of pure basketball. Thats all I was saying.

What the hell does "tailored to skill" mean? What specific rules would that be?

If you think FIBA rules are tailored for skills simply because most international players are highly-skilled but average-athletic players, you fall victim to observation bias.

What does it sound like it means?

Anyway its just one mans opinion, I don't see why it bothers you so much.

Because this sorta crap is lingering everywhere, of how oh-so skilled these international players are. It's obviously horse crap.

But never mind, you don't have to argue. I was mistaken to believe this is a discussion forum where people actually defend their argument.

[Rotten Apple]

What the hell does "tailored to skill" mean? What specific rules would that be?

If you think FIBA rules are tailored for skills simply because most international players are highly-skilled but average-athletic players, you fall victim to observation bias.

What does it sound like it means?

Anyway its just one mans opinion, I don't see why it bothers you so much.

Because this sorta crap is lingering everywhere, of how oh-so skilled these international players are. It's obviously horse crap.

But never mind, you don't have to argue. I was mistaken to believe this is a discussion forum where people actually defend their argument.

I defended my point already though...you disagree I left it at that.

[SweetTouch]

They can't defend to save their lives
Missing the king, wade, AI, Tyson chandler defense out there

Not surprising when they are led by Durant and Melo

[Beffiosa]

The NBA is really light years behind FIBA in terms of play style. The only thing they have over FIBA is superior athletes which makes of better defenders when bringing the two together, the skill level gap is vast in my eyes. Thats why only highly skilled NBA players tend to dominate international competition.

So, if you're good at basketball you're good at basketball? Wow, that's a statement.

I don't understand this obsession with international players' skills. Most of the stars of all international teams play in the NBA. We all know what Gasol, Scola, Ginobili, Bogdanovic, Motiejunas and so forth are capable of. And we know they are not of the same caliber as LeBron, Durant or Steph Curry.

can you read?

I never said they were of the same caliber as LeBron/Durant/Steph, the difference in skill in terms of the focus of the game says a lot. For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up. If the NBA was played in a game more tailored to skill like it is on the FIBA level you'd see a much better product in terms of pure basketball. Thats all I was saying.

What are these skills you speak of? The only thing I see is better team cohesiveness. Each time there are players who lacks athleticism we have a habit of automatically call them skillful. These are players who don't handle the ball that well with both hands, have limited post of game, have average rebounding skills, don't have an arsenal of offensive skills and for some reason we want to say they have superior skills. I'm not even American and always find that BS laughable.

[Rotten Apple]

So, if you're good at basketball you're good at basketball? Wow, that's a statement.

I don't understand this obsession with international players' skills. Most of the stars of all international teams play in the NBA. We all know what Gasol, Scola, Ginobili, Bogdanovic, Motiejunas and so forth are capable of. And we know they are not of the same caliber as LeBron, Durant or Steph Curry.

can you read?

I never said they were of the same caliber as LeBron/Durant/Steph, the difference in skill in terms of the focus of the game says a lot. For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up. If the NBA was played in a game more tailored to skill like it is on the FIBA level you'd see a much better product in terms of pure basketball. Thats all I was saying.

What are these skills you speak of? The only thing I see is better team cohesiveness. Each time there are players who lacks athleticism we have a habit of automatically call them skillful. These are players who don't handle the ball that well with both hands, have limited post of game, have average rebounding skills, don't have an arsenal of offensive skills and for some reason we want to say they have superior skills. I'm not even American and always find that BS laughable.

If thats all you see then I can't help you, we're going to argue in circles I'm really not trying to do that today.

[Beffiosa]

can you read?

I never said they were of the same caliber as LeBron/Durant/Steph, the difference in skill in terms of the focus of the game says a lot. For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up. If the NBA was played in a game more tailored to skill like it is on the FIBA level you'd see a much better product in terms of pure basketball. Thats all I was saying.

What are these skills you speak of? The only thing I see is better team cohesiveness. Each time there are players who lacks athleticism we have a habit of automatically call them skillful. These are players who don't handle the ball that well with both hands, have limited post of game, have average rebounding skills, don't have an arsenal of offensive skills and for some reason we want to say they have superior skills. I'm not even American and always find that BS laughable.

If thats all you see then I can't help you, we're going to argue in circles I'm really not trying to do that today.

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

[Rotten Apple]

What are these skills you speak of? The only thing I see is better team cohesiveness. Each time there are players who lacks athleticism we have a habit of automatically call them skillful. These are players who don't handle the ball that well with both hands, have limited post of game, have average rebounding skills, don't have an arsenal of offensive skills and for some reason we want to say they have superior skills. I'm not even American and always find that BS laughable.

If thats all you see then I can't help you, we're going to argue in circles I'm really not trying to do that today.

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

This is the part I think your referring to

For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up.

I'm referring to fringe NBA players who are in the league because their athleticism helps them vs a highly skilled european player who doesn't have the foot speed or explosiveness to thrive in the NBA style. There have been countless NBA players get drafted high because they can run and jump vs an international player who shoot shoot, pass, understood proper footwork and likely had a higher IQ but he couldn't blow by opposing defenders in an iso based game and thus was a limited player but in the international game where ball movement and rotations are the foundation of a sound offense(see Spurs) and he's ability attack off of close outs because the team is in sync he can thrive much better in the FIBA style. Thats all I'm saying, the FIBA game is a skill game and a team game, the NBA is much different where athleticism does a lot more for you because of the flow of the game, pace, rules and officiating. Thats all I'm saying.

[Bball0000]

Guess Klay shut everyone up vs France lol

Melo and KD are by far the best 2 players on the team, the goal should be playing off of them.

Sure if 1on1 iso is the only criteria and blackhole-ing is the goal.
Klay dropped 30 vs France AND played good defense. Dude is still underappreciated because he's not flashy.

Counted 5 times vs France that Melo got completely burned on defense/rotated wrong/made wrong read.

Like I predicted, the best lineup included Irving or Lowry, Klay Durant Green DJ. Way more balance + 3 all-defense players. For this roster, Melo would be better suited to be a spark plug 6th man and just go on a scoring tear. But Irving Melo Cousins is a disaster on defense. Coach K is sipping a margarita as he makes this farewell last Olympics. He's stroking egos and legacy players instead of putting the best product on the court and the right mix of players. I would seriously change the starting lineup to a more balanced one. And if stars get butthurt over that, well then they should stop beating teams by only 3. 'Cause this style and bad lineups will have trouble getting gold if the play doesn't improve.

[Beffiosa]

If thats all you see then I can't help you, we're going to argue in circles I'm really not trying to do that today.

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

This is the part I think your referring to

For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up.

I'm referring to fringe NBA players who are in the league because their athleticism helps them vs a highly skilled european player who doesn't have the foot speed or explosiveness to thrive in the NBA style. There have been countless NBA players get drafted high because they can run and jump vs an international player who shoot shoot, pass, understood proper footwork and likely had a higher IQ but he couldn't blow by opposing defenders in an iso based game and thus was a limited player but in the international game where ball movement and rotations are the foundation of a sound offense(see Spurs) and he's ability attack off of close outs because the team is in sync he can thrive much better in the FIBA style. Thats all I'm saying, the FIBA game is a skill game and a team game, the NBA is much different where athleticism does a lot more for you because of the flow of the game, pace, rules and officiating. Thats all I'm saying.

I see where you are coming from and I agree to an extent. Where I disagree is FIBA being a skills game. I watch as much FIBA as I do the NBA, and I think the issue with FIBA players are their lack of skills in multiple areas. The team based foundation of FIBA basketball is what prevents their lack of skills from being exposed. The NBA game allows individual skills to be more on display and that is why many international players who dominate FIBA basketball struggles in the NBA. There are many basketball players who failed in the NBA who goes on and dominate FIBA basketball after an adjustment period.

[Rotten Apple]

Guess Klay shut everyone up vs France lol

Melo and KD are by far the best 2 players on the team, the goal should be playing off of them.

Sure if 1on1 iso is the only criteria and blackhole-ing is the goal.
Klay dropped 30 vs France AND played good defense. Dude is still underappreciated because he's not flashy.

Counted 5 times vs France that Melo got completely burned on defense/rotated wrong/made wrong read.

Like I predicted, the best lineup included Irving or Lowry, Klay Durant Green DJ. Way more balance + 3 all-defense players. For this roster, Melo would be better suited to be a spark plug 6th man and just go on a scoring tear. But Irving Melo Cousins is a disaster on defense. Coach K is sipping a margarita as he makes this farewell last Olympics. He's stroking egos and legacy players instead of putting the best product on the court and the right mix of players. I would seriously change the starting lineup to a more balanced one. And if stars get butthurt over that, well then they should stop beating teams by only 3. 'Cause this style and bad lineups will have trouble getting gold if the play doesn't improve.

You obviously have Klay bias since he finally has a good game.

[Rotten Apple]

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

This is the part I think your referring to

For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up.

I'm referring to fringe NBA players who are in the league because their athleticism helps them vs a highly skilled european player who doesn't have the foot speed or explosiveness to thrive in the NBA style. There have been countless NBA players get drafted high because they can run and jump vs an international player who shoot shoot, pass, understood proper footwork and likely had a higher IQ but he couldn't blow by opposing defenders in an iso based game and thus was a limited player but in the international game where ball movement and rotations are the foundation of a sound offense(see Spurs) and he's ability attack off of close outs because the team is in sync he can thrive much better in the FIBA style. Thats all I'm saying, the FIBA game is a skill game and a team game, the NBA is much different where athleticism does a lot more for you because of the flow of the game, pace, rules and officiating. Thats all I'm saying.

I see where you are coming from and I agree to an extent. Where I disagree is FIBA being a skills game. I watch as much FIBA as I do the NBA, and I think the issue with FIBA players are their lack of skills in multiple areas. The team based foundation of FIBA basketball is what prevents their lack of skills from being exposed. The NBA game allows individual skills to be more on display and that is why many international players who dominate FIBA basketball struggles in the NBA. There are many basketball players who failed in the NBA who goes on and dominate FIBA basketball after an adjustment period.

I see your point, maybe I phrased my sentiment wrong.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Not gonna bitch anymore. I believe the USA is the only undefeated team left so let's just deal with reality, this team as constructed will have to grind a bit more but at least they are winning close games. Could help them in the elimination rounds.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bender235]

If thats all you see then I can't help you, we're going to argue in circles I'm really not trying to do that today.

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

This is the part I think your referring to

For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up.

I'm referring to fringe NBA players who are in the league because their athleticism helps them vs a highly skilled european player who doesn't have the foot speed or explosiveness to thrive in the NBA style.

So? You also have international players that are only in the league mainly for their size and/or athleticism (of the top of my head: Mickael Pietrus, Serge Ibaka, Rudy Fernandez, Mario Henzonja, Nikola Vucevic, ...), just like you have fringe NBA players who made an NBA roster despite below-average athleticism but due to their skill set (of the top of my head: Mike Dunleavy, Kyle Korver, Kirk Hinrich, Matt Bonner, ...).

No one is saying that these players don't exist. It's just that it isn't a strictly "international vs. NBA" thing.

[Rotten Apple]

Not gonna bitch anymore. I believe the USA is the only undefeated team left so let's just deal with reality, this team as constructed will have to grind a bit more but at least they are winning close games. Could help them in the elimination rounds.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I stand alone most likely but I rather watch the close game, maybe we should credit the opposition they're playing well.

[Rotten Apple]

No one is arguing. What are these basketball skills that these international players have that far exceeds that of NBA players?

This is the part I think your referring to

For example some guys in the NBA are strictly there because they are athletic enough to hang but their skills aren't close to the the international players who can't play in the NBA because they aren't athletic enough to keep up.

I'm referring to fringe NBA players who are in the league because their athleticism helps them vs a highly skilled european player who doesn't have the foot speed or explosiveness to thrive in the NBA style.

So? You also have international players that are only in the league mainly for their size and/or athleticism (of the top of my head: Mickael Pietrus, Serge Ibaka, Rudy Fernandez, Mario Henzonja, Nikola Vucevic, ...), just like you have fringe NBA players who made an NBA roster despite below-average athleticism but due to their skill set (of the top of my head: Mike Dunleavy, Kyle Korver, Kirk Hinrich, Matt Bonner, ...).

No one is saying that these players don't exist. It's just that it isn't a strictly "international vs. NBA" thing.

again we can't pick out players on both sides, I'm just speaking overall.

[chudak]

No look pass by Teodosic

https://vine.co/v/5hBUtXFLZLY

That's one of the best passes I've seen in a long, long time. It would have been one thing if his teammates was right behind him, but that was a 20-plus footer out to the 3-point line. Amazing...

Then here is some more Milos Teodosic for you

Watch on YouTube

[bender235]

LeBron James throws these kinds of passes night-in and night-out, plus he's a more gifted scorer, rebounder and defender. I still don't understand the obsession with international players.

Watch on YouTube

[Edrees]

Still think the USA players will turn it up a notch in energy and effort when they are "elimination games." They are in "regular season cruise mode"

[bakesale]

LeBron James throws these kinds of passes night-in and night-out, plus he's a more gifted scorer, rebounder and defender. I still don't understand the obsession with international players.

Watch on YouTube

Everybody already knows what Lebron can do, WTF is wrong with shining a light on what other people can do? This is an Olympic Games thread.