Greather Athlete: Phelps or Bolt

[DCasey91]

99% out of 100% of males will never get to base elite athletic thresholds to cover no matter how much fairy, how much they try or media stuff that gets driven. That’s for both sprinting and swimming

Then the % gets smaller and smaller the further you go along the food chain.

As white Mamba said I’m closer to MJ then you are to me. He’s correct.

That’s reality crashing head on to fantasy stuff.

Once again search the world for a top five sprinter or swimmer in the world that isn’t and is not on academia/programs radar.

Your better off winning the lotto, less time and less research lol

Comp pffft more like vsing the clock.

Are you having a stroke? Half this thread is just you ranting like a loon.

Go for a walk or take a bath or read a book. It'll do you the world of good.

Nah stupid is as stupid gets. Silly statements require silly answers.

[dygaction]

Bolt! The talent pool is so much deeper in his sport.

what is this supposed to mean.

does this make serena any lesser a tennis player because there was no consistant #2? no borg to her mcenroe. no frazier to her ali. no evert to her navratilova.

track and swimming are time-based sports. both bolt and phelps raced against time. doesn't matter if they raced against a loaded field or not

Except gold medals are what a lot of people point to with Phelps greatness, so his competition matters a ton.

As for time, Phelps only has one current world record not counting relays. Bolt still has 3. No one cares about swimming world records because they get broken all the time.

Also as a lazy person sitting in front of computer most of the time, I know I will at least check one thing every Olympics - who gets the 100m sprint gold medal and whether a new record is set, no matter it is Bolt or not. I know at least several people do the same. I have never met a single person who would only check swimming record except that's what they do or die hard Phelps fans.

[DCasey91]

Swimming is not a niche sport. I think some people need to research things better lol.

Once again comp gets thrown out of the window with both. Comp for the clock? 100%.

You find me a top five sprinter or swimmer in the world that isn’t yet... congrats you won the lotto. They don’t just rock up. Privilege, talent pool, comp or otherwise. These are all baseless and not well thought out statements to me.

Here’s the distinction. Posters have talked about running.

In what world is that close to sprinting? And in what world is that close to high end athletes cruise speed that would destroy 9/10 of every male off rip.

80% my arse lol.

I think you're missing the point some are making. It is entirely possible that the would-be greatest swimmers in history just never had the opportunity to explore that as a possibility. Hell, it's entirely possible the would-be greatest swimmer in history never learned to swim. Where as EVERY young boy is always racing his friends and will find out where he stacks up at a very young age, and that path will be carved out from there accordingly (regardless of what country you live in).

I don't have a side in this debate off the top of my head, but what's not a debate is the size of the talent pool to reach #1.

They are both outlier freaks in the land of freaks. This talent finding exercise is pointless.

To find the next Bolt or Phelps (not saying as good as but of that class) is only inherit to as about as many individuals as the fingers in your hand. That’s it. And that’s per generation. I say good luck to anyone finding each. It’ll most likely end up being a fruitless voyage but go ahead.

Nothing to do with talent or competition at all.

Make both 100% any man can swim or “run” won’t matter in the end. It’s Dead Sea scroll stuff.

To square the obvious bias is it not then “Easier” to find and identify the next Bolt with everybody and their mother running?

Greatest swimmer that never swam. That’s like saying a freak genius didn’t know how to do calculus of rip. Fwiw they know how to do calculus or something extreme without anyone teaching it to them.

Talk about fantasy that is stretching the theoretical way beyond its perimeters. That’s not theory that’s not even a start point.

I buy say a kid breaking records then something tragic happened but:

To say greatest swimmer who never swam. You can claim you could be the greatest guitar player ever but you never picked up a guitar. These statements creep into all the way and legitimized racial prejudice in USA unis based on demos. It’s a post modern deconstructive view. That philosophy can sway anything doesn’t make it true or in any form believable what so ever.

Cuts no mustard in a discussion because there’s zero credible basis to work from. If you state something tangible okay.

But it’s a made up island that doesn’t exist.

Pigs could fly if they had wings.

[picko]

Swimming is not a niche sport. I think some people need to research things better lol.

Once again comp gets thrown out of the window with both. Comp for the clock? 100%.

You find me a top five sprinter or swimmer in the world that isn’t yet... congrats you won the lotto. They don’t just rock up. Privilege, talent pool, comp or otherwise. These are all baseless and not well thought out statements to me.

Here’s the distinction. Posters have talked about running.

In what world is that close to sprinting? And in what world is that close to high end athletes cruise speed that would destroy 9/10 of every male off rip.

80% my arse lol.

I think you're missing the point some are making. It is entirely possible that the would-be greatest swimmers in history just never had the opportunity to explore that as a possibility. Hell, it's entirely possible the would-be greatest swimmer in history never learned to swim. Where as EVERY young boy is always racing his friends and will find out where he stacks up at a very young age, and that path will be carved out from there accordingly (regardless of what country you live in).

I don't have a side in this debate off the top of my head, but what's not a debate is the size of the talent pool to reach #1.

This is unfortunately a concept that not many people will understand. Some sports are better at realising their talent that others. Often there are barriers to certain sports that will direct talent towards other sports. Swimming is far from the most privileged of sports but it certainly has higher barriers to entry than, say, athletics.

But yes it is always possible that there are some amazing swimmers or runners or basketballers or footballers who simply never played that sport or found themselves playing another sport due to external factors.

Often people fall into the trap of taking a niche sport and then assuming that the GOAT in that sport is a truly transcendent athlete. I don't necessarily think swimming fits into that camp but given the earnings available, compared to other athletic pursuits, there is still a good chance that some great swimming talent just ends up in more financially viable careers.

[Petergrifindor]

Same kind of dominance.

[Pennebaker]

It's not possible to authoritatively answer this question.

[michaelm]

Bolt.

Everyone everywhere runs.

[DCasey91]

Bolt.

Everyone everywhere runs.

Bolt isn’t running he’s sprinting quicker then any human ever.

[Maxthirty]

I'll answer who is the better athlete, by answering whose accomplishments matter more to people.

You’re talking about fame, not athletic talent. Those things are irrelevant when evaluating talent.

The title of this thread is "Greater Athlete: Phelps or Bolt."
I am defining athlete in its broader and MUCH more important sense.

That’s deep bro.

[dygaction]

Bolt.

Everyone everywhere runs.

Bolt isn’t running he’s sprinting quicker then any human ever.

So basically you agree Bolt is quicker than any human ever.

In real world, most people who have demonstrated exceptional physical attribute for sprinting have been scouted. It's like most of people in the world who are taller than 6'11 have been asked to try basketball. You cannot say most people in the world who have short legs, long torso, large feet and large lung capacity have been scouted to swim .

[DCasey91]

Yes and you could be the greatest composer by virtue of picking up a pen and paper. But go ahead by my guest.

I couldn’t relate to anyone here unless they’ve been and experienced swimming in a 50/25m pool even just for a leisurely swim.

I advocate anyone to try it. It’s an eye opening experience. Best workout bar none.

[HEAT33]

Bolt is a better athlete…..
Phelps 7 medals is because there is so many swimming events at each distance.

If running had 50m, 100m etc with dif styles…. Sprint, running sideways, backwards and relays in all styles to something similar to swimming. Bolt would probably win more too

[shawngoat23]

Usain Bolt, not even close

1. Sprinting is a more global endeavor, the crown jewel of the Olympic Games, and one that draws a larger competition pool. There is a reason the first thirteen Ancient Olympiads featured just sprinting, and never included swimming.

2. While swimming requires elite athleticism at such a level, sprinting is a better representation of one’s athletic ability. It’s no coincidence the rest of the English-speaking world refers to track and field as Athletics. If you had to traverse any distance by running or by swimming, you would naturally choose to run: it’s the most efficient method for humans.

3. Phelps has a much higher medal count, which is legendarily impressive within his discipline, but it is foolish to compare medal counts across different sports. Imagine swimming had only the freestyle and running had the current events labeled as a freestyle, plus for each distance, useless modifiers such as “running without swinging arms”, “running without a starting block”, and “running while showboating”. Bolt’s medal count would easily triple Phelps’s, while neither of their accomplishments would have increased or diminished in true magnitude.

4. Those who favor Phelps are probably either swimmers or American. Imagine Phelps were from a small island while Bolt were American. Or you don’t need to imagine; compare how celebrated Jesse Owens and Carl Lewis are in the United States compared to Mark Spitz, and the answer becomes abundantly obvious.

[DutchManDanFan]

Bolt easy. Nobody came close to Bolt in 3 Olympics and his world records are crazy good. He won with strenght and souplesse.
Phelps won many gold medals on the toughest swimming events (butterfly and medley). He won with a rare combination of technique, strength and endurance. But he only has 1 individual world record left (400 medley) and he swam with swimsuits that are no longer allowed.

[DCasey91]

Still people talk about competition like it holds validity in Phelps vs Bolt. But sure use that

[robbie84]

Bolt! The talent pool is so much deeper in his sport.

what is this supposed to mean.

does this make serena any lesser a tennis player because there was no consistant #2? no borg to her mcenroe. no frazier to her ali. no evert to her navratilova.

track and swimming are time-based sports. both bolt and phelps raced against time. doesn't matter if they raced against a loaded field or not

They're racing against the times of their competitors- Bolt's competition pool is billions of humans deeper than Phelps'.

Swimming is somewhat like tennis. It's a westerners sport. Predominately played and therefore dominated by white people.
Track, running etc is an every man's sport. It does not discriminate against socio economic opportunity to the extent that swimming does.

Phelps is the best swimmer we've ever seen- but the human talent pool he competes against is vastly smaller. Let's say 60 to 75% smaller.

In other words, Bolt is racing against 90% of the world's population. Phelps is racing against 25-40%(generous rough guess, could be more like 15-20%) Of the world's population.

There is no comparison.

[Jabroni Lames]

I've thought about this and I've gone back and forth, but I'm going to have to go with Phelps.

This is not a slight to Bolt at all. He is unquestionably one of the most amazing physical specimens the human race has produced.

My reasoning for Phelps is as follows: The human body is designed as a bi-pedal organism which lives on land. Running is something that our bodies have specifically evolved to do well. Swimming - while a skill that goes back to primitive ages - is not as natural a movement for the human body. Humans are not designed to be in the water - webbed feet and hands would be biological advantages for a more aquatic-based human life form.

I'm going with Phelps because what he does is not something that comes naturally to humans in my point of view. And on top of that he just does it so much better than any other human out there!

But you could easily flip your line of reasoning 180 degrees and argue that Bolt is the superior athlete because talent pool of competition he has had to beat out is an order of magnitude greater than Phelps. Every kid runs and has been in a playground running contest growing up; hence, everybody knows who the fastest kids in their school are. It's natural selection, even without formal competition. Bolt is effectively competing against the entire world as an initial talent pool.

But not every kid swims, for starters. And Phelps is only competing against the privileged few who have access to pool facilities and competitive swimming. Nobody really knows who are the best swimmers in their schools, growing up. Not saying swimming is elitist, like polo, but there is definitely a socio-economic barrier that limits the competition and size of the talent pool (no pun) that Phelps has had to face.

[Hedda Gambler]

Phelps. Half the human population can't even swim. it's an unreal talent to go that fast.

Your argument kind of defeats itself. If half of the human population can run, bot not swim, it would be a much bigger deal to be a legendary runner than swimmer.

[Quattro]

Look at it this way: before Bolt, the 100m world record progression was measured in the hundredths of a second. Guys would shave off maybe 1 or 2 100ths from the record when they broke it. Bolt came along when the world record was 9.74. By the time he was done, it was 9.58. That kind of a jump is simply unheard of.

Phelps was certainly great at his sport but 4 years after his retirement, almost all of his records have already been broken. Only 2 guys besides Bolt have ever run sub 9.7 and they were both 9.69 and both have doping histories for what it’s worth. Best 100m time this year? 9.77. 12 years on from Bolts record and guys aren’t anywhere close.

[marley game]

iM mar1ey