Olympic games thread - General

[TheGlyde]

Woo Sallay Mac Silver in the 100m Hurdles... shes a super nice chick, so happy for her

[Michael Phelps]

My performance alone has stood out on another level compared to anything else in these Olympics. The re-airing of the triathlon for the mens is really nice, coming on USA.

[XcalibuR]

China's dream diving team is 2 golds away from sweeping their olympic events.

[abcdef]

What's with all the conspiracy theories in women's gymnastics?
Bela should STFU.

Simple, the Americans aren't winning, must be the fault of something that's not their own athletes, because we know that they are perfect and any failing cannot possibly be their fault.

[Joker]

What's with all the conspiracy theories in women's gymnastics?
Bela should STFU.

Simple, the Americans aren't winning, must be the fault of something that's not their own athletes, because we know that they are perfect and any failing cannot possibly be their fault.

I love the double standards with NBC (although that bias exists for any country's network coverage of the Olympics). It's still entertaining nonetheless.

Like Costas made it a point to bring up Bolt's "showboating" and how he was "disrespecting" the fans and his competition. I forgot how truly classy, sportsmanlike, and humble the American sprinters have been throughout the course of the past 4 or 5 Olympics, where American broadcasters didn't say a peep regarding their pompous attitudes and borderline obnoxious celebrations.

[kperk43]

The problem with the judging is that it has been inconstistent.

[canoner]

What's with all the conspiracy theories in women's gymnastics?
Bela should STFU.

I feel privileged to watch He's (who Bella keeps bleating is underage) uneven bar performance. The main scoring injustice I saw was the judges rated her routine difficulty level far too low (but \US gymnast complainers ignore, or even explicitly say they aren't complaining about difficulty rating unfairness.)

You are right on that. He's exercise was clearly more difficult than Lukin's and Yang's. He had four releases, two of which are consecutive. Lukin and Yang each had two releases, not to mention their releases were not as difficult. Of course Bella conveniently overlooked that.

The tie breaking system has flaws, but people shouldn't direct their frustration towards the Chinese girl. She didn't make up the rule. Had the situation been different, and Lukin won the tie breaker, how many fans here would be saying "the rule is rule"? I think a lot would.

[abcdef]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/8/19/59 ... pic-truths

Watching the ongoing Olympics I was struck by two stories which led to broader observations.

The first story was the seventh gold medal won by Michael Phelps. This was the 100-meter butterfly in which he edged out Milorad Cavic by one one-hundredth of a second. The thing that struck me was that watching live, and even in the replay, it didn't look like Phelps won! You could have sworn he was second until, apparently, they slowed down the replay to frame 1/10000th of a second apart.

This got me thinking about what we observe in NBA games. How many times have we sworn we have seen something happen on the court but an official calls it differently? How many times have we looked at the replay as proof? Now granted the officials could also be mistaken in what they observe, but the point is are any of us 100% sure that we perceive reality correctly? In a world where even replays sometimes screw up should we be a tad bit easier on referees, coaches, and analysts who see things differently than we do? They're not perfect, but being specifically trained and focused on the matter at hand on average they're going to see things better, clearer, and more accurately than we do.

The second notable moment was televised this past evening when American Nastia Liukin and China's He Kexin tied for first on the uneven bars and Lukin was bumped into silver medal position because of a tiebreaker. First of all the commentators went berserk over the scoring, claiming Liukin's routine was superior. Second of all they slammed the tiebreaker system. The criticism was so pointed that play-by-play man Al Trautwig asked whether He Kexin really thought she was the gold medalist when she took the awards stand. I'll admit right now I don't know enough about the sport to judge whether their critiques were correct. What struck me were the two words that failed to enter the conversation anywhere: Paul Hamm. Hamm was the American gymnast who, in the 2004 Olympics, had a disastrous fall on the vault but later came back to win the all-around gold because of a horrific judging mistake against South Korean gymnast Yang Tae Young. The controversy ran well after the Olympics were finished. I'll admit my memory isn't word-for-word perfect but I do recall the American gymnastics contingent defending that gold medal with teeth and nails bared and I believe the commentators basically followed suit.

This got me thinking about fandom and its bias in general. We're always going to see things in a way that favors our chosen team and its special players. Even at the highest, most sanctified levels of sport people will distort truth--or at least their stance on the truth--to suit their rooting interest. If people with intimate knowledge of the sport--experts in their field with the most access to accuracy--will do this, how much more so the casual fan sporting a team jersey and a brewski? It would be foolish to try and curb this impulse. It's part of what makes fandom fanatical. But it does strike me that we should always include a dose of humility with our opinions. When someone argues with us there's always the possibility--sometimes a strong possibility--that they may be closer to the truth than we are. It's unfortunate when people who disagree with us also end up being our enemy because we are not able to understand this. They may not be our enemy, they may just be seeing a little clearer than we do as well.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

Good for Shawn, she won beam.


Also, Sanya Richards, representing the New York Football Giants, won bronze in the 400m. A little disappointing, but still sweet.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

What's with all the conspiracy theories in women's gymnastics?
Bela should STFU.

He didn't complain about the scoring for the uneven bars. Bela said "Why do they have to have a tie break system? Why can't they both get gold? Every other Olympic sport would give both athletes the gold, why is gymnastics different?" and he's absolutely right. They shouldn't cut it down to three judge scores with the difference being a thousandth of a point. Just give double gold, they've done it before. Gymnastics has had a double gold Olympic champ. Why change?

He was complaining about the scoring in the vault, and he was right about that. You shouldn't land on your knees and come away with a medal.

It seems like people think he should sit there and say "a result's a result" no matter what. Too many people here seem to think you have to sit square in the middle. If someone claims the world is square and someone claims the world is a sphere, the correct answer is not that the world is a circle. The world is round. Cheng Fei landed on her knees.

[canoner]

Whatever involves judges always have imperfection. The thing is commentators like Bella will ONLY pick on the imperfection when it is against their favored team, not when the imperfection is in favor of their team. That makes them look pathetic.

[Posey H8er]

Whatever involves judges always have imperfection. The thing is commentators like Bella will ONLY pick on the imperfection when it is against their favored team, not when the imperfection is in favor of their team. That makes them look pathetic.

Has anything gone against the Chinese gymnasts these games?

On another subject does anyone else dislike the non-live events shown on NBC's primetime lineup? It seems every event is being played at night in Beijing (morning in the States), so you can see the results before you see the performances.

[jourdy]

I agree that they both should have won gold.
This new scoring system sucks, and it's too confusing for people who casually watch gymnastics.

NBC's commentators have been ripping apart the Chinese athletes and the judges from what I hear. Every day I log on the internet (homepage is Yahoo), there's a special "blog" featured that states either of the following:
a) The Chinese are cheaters
b) Gold in (sport) should have gone to the US
c) How people are not pleased with the winners
d) And now, the recent featured gem:

THE REAL OLYMPIC MEDAL COUNT
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... oly,101537


I've never seen other countries complain this much, at least from what I see. Maybe there are other countries complain at this magnitude that I just don't see yet.

[Rasho Brezec]

I find that article unprofessional.

[Blame Rasho]

I find that article unprofessional.

Well if the judging was professional... there wouldn't be an uproar. I am not an expert on gymnastics but I think there have been some very questionable medals given out.

In boxing( which I am an expert) jeez... it has been absolutely deplorable. The judges flat out suck. They don't count body punches. Heck, they don't give points on knockdowns. China who has never had any sucesss at all in boxing. It was banned for years, is now a powerhouse? WTF. Heck India has fighters still in. Eastern Europeans fighters and Cubans who are considered creme of the crop fighting nations have been screwed in some fights alongside US fighters.

It is unprofessional it would be typical of what has been expected of the games...

[XcalibuR]

I agree that they both should have won gold.
This new scoring system sucks, and it's too confusing for people who casually watch gymnastics.

NBC's commentators have been ripping apart the Chinese athletes and the judges from what I hear. Every day I log on the internet (homepage is Yahoo), there's a special "blog" featured that states either of the following:
a) The Chinese are cheaters
b) Gold in (sport) should have gone to the US
c) How people are not pleased with the winners
d) And now, the recent featured gem:

THE REAL OLYMPIC MEDAL COUNT
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... oly,101537


I've never seen other countries complain this much, at least from what I see. Maybe there are other countries complain at this magnitude that I just don't see yet.

lol I love it. There's simply no enjoyment when fans are being respectful or graceful in losses. But when they become desperate and have to use "corruption", "we don't care enough" or "this sport shouldn't count" etc, then its just really pathetic, and shows how we've really beaten down their spirits.

[dacher]

NBC's primetime editing and commentary is reality show drama editing to favor USA, and their darling attention whore, ex-team USA woman's coach and drama queen Bellow Crybaby. I wonder if he really is such a nut, or he's a calculating type that thinks delivering the drama will get gymnastics more attention like Tanya Harding got for figure skating.

Cheng Fei landed on her knees.

You can't count deductions by nitpicking slowmo vid. You have to see how that particular crew of olympic vault judges is deducting. Looking at all-around scores and vault scores, with these judges, a fall loses you up to 1 point compared to a stick landing. Every vaulter was judged and penalized the same by the same judge crew.

So Sacramone lost out on 3rd because she did a hopeless low value 5.6 vault when Fei was doing a 6.5 level vault -- being .9 less difficult and a Fei fall eqal -1.0, Alicia had to be perfect and have Fei falling just to tie -- which is pretty much what happened. Why didn't Alicia do a medal worthy 2nd vault in the 6.0+ range? The Korean girl that got vault gold, though she stumbled, because they where both on 6.5 vaults.

All events penalize major mistakes different: Even if you fall flat on your back on a women's vault on "easy" 5.5 you get 14 (lowest Italian girl score). Seeing how the lowest vaulting score was a 14.0 by Italian and Brazilian girls on easier vaults, Fei getting a 15.0 for failing to land a 6.5 difficulty vault is pretty fair.

This time, the olympic judges rewarded flawed advanced difficulty routines more so than 2004 when boring routines often beat out the spectacular envelope pushing routines which got hammered for flaws on much more difficult moves.

[Blame Rasho]

The best idea when it to get a routine with a start value of 7.whatever and make sure you do 5/8th of it and fall on your ass and get a medal. I mean it is fair right?

[dacher]

'Cept they will lower your start value if you don't get your 7.0 difficulty, 4 flips and a twist (with a cherry on top) all the way around. But if you do get it all around and fall flat on your back every time, yeah, I guess you win gold.

[XcalibuR]

The best idea when it to get a routine with a start value of 7.whatever and make sure you do 5/8th of it and fall on your ass and get a medal. I mean it is fair right?

No I think its way more fair to not do a routine with difficulty at all and just jump off the vault and land perfectly.