Water Polo

[Rasho Brezec]

Physically, it is a very demanding sport and believe me, the players are as though as american football players

No they're not. Blood in the pool doesn't come close to broken bones (including spines) and even on field deaths. Two players running as fast as they can in opposing directions and then colliding is a lot more painful than getting punched in the face or hit with a ball. For maybe four punches in a very violent water polo game there are 80 collisions per football game with 12-22 big ones and 3-4 being the kind that makes every one stand up and gasp.

There are football players that are physically crippled not from a major injury but just the constant beating that they take (Earl Campbell to name one, a monster of a man who used to run over linebackers who now sometimes needs a wheelchair because somedays he just can't walk).

I was talking about handball, not water polo.

[Andris]

We beat Greece and Spain!

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

I was talking about handball, not water polo.

Point still stands.

[Rasho Brezec]

I was talking about handball, not water polo.

Point still stands.

Did you ever watch an entire game of handball? This is a sport full of hard contacts literally on every possession, just like american football. You are being hammered by 6'5" 225 lbs guys everytime you have the ball on offense. The first thing coaches teach you about handball is how to fall because you're on the floor most of the time.

Also, like in american football, injuries are pretty severe. One player got hit in the eye and almost got blinded because of that. I know a lot of people who played handball and can't even lift their shooting arm now because of shoulder injuries.

I'd say these two sports are quite comparable in terms of toughness.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

I was talking about handball, not water polo.

Point still stands.

Did you ever watch an entire game of handball? This is a sport full of hard contacts literally on every possession, just like american football. You are being hammered by 6'5" 225 lbs guys everytime you have the ball on offense. The first thing coaches teach you about handball is how to fall because you're on the floor most of the time.

Also, like in american football, injuries are pretty severe. One player got hit in the eye and almost got blinded because of that. I know a lot of people who played handball and can't even lift their shooting arm now because of shoulder injuries.

I'd say these two sports are quite comparable in terms of toughness.

Handball has contact that more closely resembles that of Basketball than that of Football. 225lbs is light for a football player, and getting hammered is not as bad as being nearly cut in half. Too rough in handball gets a foul, too rough in football gets a congratulation. Getting hit in the eye is a freak incident, Orlando Brown was nearly blinded by being hit in the eye from a flag. The eye is a soft, delicate structure which could easily be damaged. Eye damage is not a measure of toughness, you could be blinded in rhythmic gymnastics. How many broken spines have come from playing handball? Broken legs? Torn ACLs, PCLs, MCLs or entire knee blowouts? How many snapped achilles? Broken arms? Broken Pelvis? Internal injuries? Brain damage? Torn ligaments? Broken feet?


Football players get more injuries and play through more injuries than any other athletes. Giants rookie LB Jonathan Goff just broke the transverse process in his back, and he's expected back by the end of preseason. Here's just a small rundown of some of the notable injuries players on my team (NY Giants) played through this season:

David Diehl our starting left tackle tore ligaments in his hand, if you know anything about football you know hands are pretty important when blocking. He didn't even miss a single practice.
In fact he's only missed one practice his entire football career and no games despite multiple nagging injuries.

Eli Manning our starting QB separated his throwing shoulder causing a torn labrum in the first game of the season, not only did he not miss a game, he came back in during that same game and threw a TD.

Plaxico Burress our number one WR sprained his right ankle early in the season, he couldn't practice because it was so painful, as a receiver he was putting a lot of pressure on that ankle not only to run but to make sharp cuts while running routes and landings off of jump balls, yet he played every game.

Aaron Ross our rookie CB strained his hamstring and missed only one game.

Shaun O' Hara our starting Center sprained his knee and missed only one game.

Osi Umenyiora our starting Right Defensive End sprained his knee in the first game of the season and did not miss a game.

Brandon Jacobs badly sprained his knee after an O lineman fell on him in the first game, he missed five games and then was back playing full speed.

Sam Madison played the entire regular season battling a hamstring injury.

Antonio Pierce our starting MLB suffered a concussion mid season, missed a couple of practices then was back on the field without missing a single game.

David Tyree our pro bowl special teamer missed two games with a fractured wrist (and an additional one after his mother died).

Kiwika Mitchell our starting weakside LB sprained his knee in the last game of the season but didn't miss a single playoff game.

The only major contributors who missed major time or could not come back from injury were Mathias Kiwanuka with a broken fibula late in the season after Osi fell on his leg, Derrick Ward with a broken leg mid-season, Craig Dahl with a torn ACL at the end of the season, and Steve Smith who missed most of the season with a broken scapula but was back for the playoffs.

I know there were more injuries that either I can't remember or you don't hear about (pulls, minor sprains and strains).

That's just one team, who had a relatively healthy season. That's not even getting into ironman legends like Brett Farve, who have battle through crazy amounts of injuries.

For every one guy that can't lift his arm from playing handball there are 100 Football players who suffer from debilitating injuries or worse (quadriplegic, paralysis from waist down, dead, etc).

Handball is a contact sport, Football is a collision sport. The two do not compare.

[Rasho Brezec]

Handball has contact that more closely resembles that of Basketball than that of Football. 225lbs is light for a football player, and getting hammered is not as bad as being nearly cut in half. Too rough in handball gets a foul, too rough in football gets a congratulation. Getting hit in the eye is a freak incident, Orlando Brown was nearly blinded by being hit in the eye from a flag. The eye is a soft, delicate structure which could easily be damaged. Eye damage is not a measure of toughness, you could be blinded in rhythmic gymnastics. How many broken spines have come from playing handball? Broken legs? Torn ACLs, PCLs, MCLs or entire knee blowouts? How many snapped achilles? Broken arms? Broken Pelvis? Internal injuries? Brain damage? Torn ligaments? Broken feet?

...

Insightful post, and you almost convinced me, but this is the part that bothers me the most. These injuries are common in handball. This player is one of the greatest handball players of all time and I don't remember when was the last time he played healthy, if ever even. In the past two seasons, he tore or had problems with muscle in his left or right thigh about 5, 6 times. And he only missed few games in total. And this is not sole example.

I understand that american football is tough collision sport, but it is not the only sport where players have to play through severe injuries.

[Andris]

This discussion reminds me of a very serious head injury a German handball player suffered
in Budapest long time ago.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

Handball has contact that more closely resembles that of Basketball than that of Football. 225lbs is light for a football player, and getting hammered is not as bad as being nearly cut in half. Too rough in handball gets a foul, too rough in football gets a congratulation. Getting hit in the eye is a freak incident, Orlando Brown was nearly blinded by being hit in the eye from a flag. The eye is a soft, delicate structure which could easily be damaged. Eye damage is not a measure of toughness, you could be blinded in rhythmic gymnastics. How many broken spines have come from playing handball? Broken legs? Torn ACLs, PCLs, MCLs or entire knee blowouts? How many snapped achilles? Broken arms? Broken Pelvis? Internal injuries? Brain damage? Torn ligaments? Broken feet?

...

Insightful post, and you almost convinced me, but this is the part that bothers me the most. These injuries are common in handball. This player is one of the greatest handball players of all time and I don't remember when was the last time he played healthy, if ever even. In the past two seasons, he tore or had problems with muscle in his left or right thigh about 5, 6 times. And he only missed few games in total. And this is not sole example.

I understand that american football is tough collision sport, but it is not the only sport where players have to play through severe injuries.

How common is the question. In football you should expect mulitple of these injuries per team. I was trying to look up how common they are in handball and I came across this:

And there are two important facts regarding injuries in the game: handball is not a serious injury producing sport, and the majority of injuries sustained and the recurrence of those symptoms can be avoided if players would follow the advice in this article and the articles which were featured in past issues of Handball.

http://www.ushandball.org/health/trainingroom.html

In a prospective study of 302 adolescent players in three ball games (soccer, handball and basketball), 119 incurred injuries. The injury incidence (number of injuries per 1000 playing hours) was 5.6 in soccer, 4.1 in handball and 3.0 in basketball. Ankle sprains accounted for 25 per cent of the injuries, finger sprains 32 per cent, strains in the thigh and leg 10 per cent, and tendinitis/apophysitis 12 per cent. The most serious injuries were four fractures, one anterior cruciate ligament rupture, and two meniscus lesions. The most serious injuries, with the longest rehabilitation period, occurred in soccer. In soccer, many injuries occurred during tackling and contact with an opposing player, while the injuries in handball and basketball were often caused by ball contact and running.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/24/1/51

The response for the cases was 67% and for the controls 75%. These injuries are frequently located at the lower extremities (54% of injuries), especially the ankle, and the majority involve distortions (35%) and strains (26%). Players greater than 20 years have a significantly greater risk of injury than players less than 20 years (odds ratio 1.9). Several factors seem to increase the injury risk, although not significantly: having greater than 5 years experience, not doing stretching exercises and not wearing tape or bandages. Another factor, not wearing elbow protectors, appears to decrease the injury risk significantly.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1478960

FOOTBALL: Every injury listed in this book. Most common ones include those to head, neck, knee, ankle, and pelvic and leg muscles.

HANDBALL: Finger dislocation or fracture; thumb sprain; ankle sprain; groin-muscle sprain; "runner's knee"; shin splints; shoulder dislocation; acromio-clavicular strain; shoulder bursitis; hematoma under fingernail or toenail; contusions; abrasions; lacerations.

HIKING & BACKPACKING: Muscle, ligament or tendon strain or sprain in any areas of the shoulder, arms, abdominal wall, pelvis, legs, ankles or feet; "runner's knee"; shin splints; hamstring pull; foot or leg exostosis; stress-fracture; hematoma under toenail; contusion; abrasion; laceration; puncture wound; snakebite.

http://www.mdadvice.com/library/sport/sport96.html

I can't find any instances of internal organ injury, broken spines, brain damage, or pelvic injuries. From what I have been able to look up, most handball injuries are mild to moderate (sprains, strains, fractures, contusions) with a few severe injuries (ACL tears, broken legs).

Handball is a fairly rough sport, but I just can't see how Handball players can be considered as tough or tougher than Football players. I'm just not seeing the same level of brutality.

[Rasho Brezec]

How common is the question. In football you should expect mulitple of these injuries per team. I was trying to look up how common they are in handball and I came across this:

And there are two important facts regarding injuries in the game: handball is not a serious injury producing sport, and the majority of injuries sustained and the recurrence of those symptoms can be avoided if players would follow the advice in this article and the articles which were featured in past issues of Handball.

http://www.ushandball.org/health/trainingroom.html

In a prospective study of 302 adolescent players in three ball games (soccer, handball and basketball), 119 incurred injuries. The injury incidence (number of injuries per 1000 playing hours) was 5.6 in soccer, 4.1 in handball and 3.0 in basketball. Ankle sprains accounted for 25 per cent of the injuries, finger sprains 32 per cent, strains in the thigh and leg 10 per cent, and tendinitis/apophysitis 12 per cent. The most serious injuries were four fractures, one anterior cruciate ligament rupture, and two meniscus lesions. The most serious injuries, with the longest rehabilitation period, occurred in soccer. In soccer, many injuries occurred during tackling and contact with an opposing player, while the injuries in handball and basketball were often caused by ball contact and running.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/24/1/51

The response for the cases was 67% and for the controls 75%. These injuries are frequently located at the lower extremities (54% of injuries), especially the ankle, and the majority involve distortions (35%) and strains (26%). Players greater than 20 years have a significantly greater risk of injury than players less than 20 years (odds ratio 1.9). Several factors seem to increase the injury risk, although not significantly: having greater than 5 years experience, not doing stretching exercises and not wearing tape or bandages. Another factor, not wearing elbow protectors, appears to decrease the injury risk significantly.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1478960

FOOTBALL: Every injury listed in this book. Most common ones include those to head, neck, knee, ankle, and pelvic and leg muscles.

HANDBALL: Finger dislocation or fracture; thumb sprain; ankle sprain; groin-muscle sprain; "runner's knee"; shin splints; shoulder dislocation; acromio-clavicular strain; shoulder bursitis; hematoma under fingernail or toenail; contusions; abrasions; lacerations.

HIKING & BACKPACKING: Muscle, ligament or tendon strain or sprain in any areas of the shoulder, arms, abdominal wall, pelvis, legs, ankles or feet; "runner's knee"; shin splints; hamstring pull; foot or leg exostosis; stress-fracture; hematoma under toenail; contusion; abrasion; laceration; puncture wound; snakebite.

http://www.mdadvice.com/library/sport/sport96.html

I can't find any instances of internal organ injury, broken spines, brain damage, or pelvic injuries. From what I have been able to look up, most handball injuries are mild to moderate (sprains, strains, fractures, contusions) with a few severe injuries (ACL tears, broken legs).

Handball is a fairly rough sport, but I just can't see how Handball players can be considered as tough or tougher than Football players. I'm just not seeing the same level of brutality.

Thank you for this extensive research. I must admit that you changed my opinion and I believe you now. Handball is not as rough as american football, but it is certainly more rough than basketball or "soccer" (a.k.a the real football ).

However, I must say I laughed pretty hard when I read that first link. I don't know if that kind of article came up because handball in USA is poorly developed or if the author is just plain ignorant. Only amateurs wouldn't physically train for the sport outside the court and just rely on their time in the court to adequately prepare them. And I won't even bother to explain the fallacies about other three factors that he mentions.

[pillwenney]

I played water polo in high school and had before that since 4th grade. And yes, it is incredibly demanding, particularly when you're not used to it (fortunately I was). Beyond just treading water, you're constantly being leaned on, pushed, kicked, punched, having your suit pulled down--and unless you have shoulder strength that very, very few have, you have to use your legs to get your nipples at least a few inches out of the water to make a decent pass (against good competition) and you have to get to your suit for a decent shot. Then of course there is the actual act of shooting, constantly swimming above water, and defense.

You almost can't really appreciate it on TV because you don't really see the constant manuevering that goes on--the sport is really as much wrestling as it is like handball.

And yeah, usually the best teams are in Eastern Europe. It's growing pretty quickly in America, but as far as I know, it's still only really big on the west coast (particularly in California) and Florida.

Anyway, if anybody has any questions about the rules, I'd be happy to help.

Anyway, if anybody needs any r

[Andris]

Team USA upset Croatia yesterday! They won 6-4
YEAH!
As far as I know most guys are from Southern California on the American team.

[Goon_Slapper]

The US is about to play a game that get's them in the gold medal game...vs. Serbia. Go US!!!

[gavran]

Hope USA wins it....they will be much easier to beat in the finals.

[Goon_Slapper]

Sweet, the US will win a medal...I'm stoked. I know Hungary is a tough team and is undefeated these Olympics, but there's always a shot at winning. That's why you play out each game.

Unfortunately, I'm on a business trip where I cannot watch water polo. Oh well, at least I can catch up with it on the web.

[Andris]

Hungary vs. USA in the final game!
Should be a good one.
Hungary has to be the favorite, hopefully they're not overconfident....
Team USA is very good as I stated earlier....
I don't even know when is the game... Saturday? Sunday?

[kromoszoma]

That's three consecutive olympics for us
Congrats to the US team, they were great throughout the whole tournament until the second half.

[Goon_Slapper]

Congrats to Hungary. It was a good game. Unfortunately, some of the US players forced the issue in the fourth quarter. They didn't take advantage of Tony Azevedo in the fourth and on the man up situations. But, a silver is way better than what was expected of them this year. They've had the talent the past few years, this year they've finally played as a team.

[gavran]

What a wonderful finish to a weak Olympics for us. We lost 6 finals since 2004, but won the most important. They even wrote history with the threepeat. It was a great game, congrats to team USA, they were really a great opponent, but at the end hunger and skill won.

[krazzyfan]

I watched it once ...its a nice game...