Robbed?: post your complaints

[dougthonus]

They tested positive for **** like Robitussin.

If they were covered up then those athletes should have to give back their medals. If the test were shown to the IOC and they said, "Okay, it's Robitussin" then fine.

[jourdy]

you don't mean this do you

Documents purporting to show that a number of American athletes, including Carl Lewis, were allowed to compete in the Olympics after failing drug tests prove suspicions of US drug cover-ups, says the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Dr Wade Exum, the former USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated and the Orange County Register.

He said they showed that athletes such as Lewis and Mary Joe Fernandez tested positive but were allowed by the US Olympic Committee to compete anyway

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 07806.html

Great find. You just took a giant dump on some people's faces.
From the same article:

Exum claimed more than 100 positive drug tests for US athletes who won 19 Olympic medals from 1988-2000, but many of them were allowed to compete.

Exum said Lewis was among them, testing positive three times for small amounts of banned stimulants found in cold medications at the 1988 Olympic trials. The USOC first disqualified him, then accepted his appeal on the basis of inadvertent use. Lewis went on to win gold at Seoul in the long jump - and in the 100 metres after Ben Johnson himself was disqualified for using steroids.

Pound dismissed the claims of "inadvertent" drug use. "At the time this happened, Carl Lewis already had four gold medals from the Olympics," he said. "You know perfectly well you've got to be very careful what you take. The offence is the presence of the substance in your body."

This issue is virtually non-existent. I wonder why?

The IOC should strip medals from China if He is indeed found to be underage. Cheating by a single athlete is disgrace enough for the whole country. Government sponsored cheating should have massive consequences, not merely stripping of medals.

Good morning teacher, today we learned that all governments are asses.

[5DOM]

you don't mean this do you

Documents purporting to show that a number of American athletes, including Carl Lewis, were allowed to compete in the Olympics after failing drug tests prove suspicions of US drug cover-ups, says the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Dr Wade Exum, the former USOC director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated and the Orange County Register.

He said they showed that athletes such as Lewis and Mary Joe Fernandez tested positive but were allowed by the US Olympic Committee to compete anyway

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 07806.html

Great find. You just took a giant dump on some people's faces.

if the americans cheated, they are just as bad as the chinese. and most people here know that.

there's no defending cheaters.

at least Canadian government doesnt cheat... in sports

[RockTHECasbah]

no one took a dump, people here can acknowledge that American's have hidden many things in track and field

some people have trouble acknowledging the fact that some Chinese gymnasts are underaged, your age doesn't suddenly go from 13 to 16 in one year

[canoner]

So now team USA has a history of covering up doping. Considering how hard they defended Jones I am not surprised. I wonder how american fans feel if others always question gold medals won by american athletes by mentioning this history.

[jourdy]

no one took a dump, people here can acknowledge that American's have hidden many things in track and field

some people have trouble acknowledging the fact that some Chinese gymnasts are underaged, your age doesn't suddenly go from 13 to 16 in one year

I haven't read the complete thread. Just checked about page 8 -10.
But what I have seen is that there are some people claiming that China is the only one who knows and covers up their athletes cheating. All governments cheat, not only in sports.

Right now, there is no hard evidence that China cheated. I feel they did, but we just have to wait for the investigation to complete. At least the IOC is doing something about it, and this issue is something they can't let slip since it is such a big issue, at least in US websites.

If China is found guilty, there is no excuse. Like I said, the government should also be made to pay for the consequences, not only the athletes. Hmm... rescind half the golds? I don't know. At least that way, there would be no more complaining about the judges, nor about real gold counts. Now we could all just enjoy the olympics for what it is - a great show of athleticism from around the globe.

[RockTHECasbah]

the problem is, the IOC will probably let it go, like they did in 2000

[5DOM]

So now team USA has a history of covering up doping. Considering how hard they defended Jones I am not surprised. I wonder how american fans feel if others always question gold medals won by american athletes by mentioning this history.

why would they want to defend the cheaters?

[dacher]

I wish we would all stop throwing stones at glass houses.

Consider cheating in college, especially business schools is rampant, and probably silently encouraged.

China cheats. The US cheats. It is one of the cornerstones of the win or bust culture. You know, where it says if no one catches you, it isn't cheating. (Like a flop in basketball.) And even if you are caught, you might still come out even or ahead. Being the apt pupil China is, I'm not surprised if they are cutting corners in their desire to overcome the master.



Yes, catch the cheaters and DQ them when it happens and move on. But please stop talking like one side's shyt doesn't stink.

[Yao_noodle]

team of dopers complaint about team of false agers?
wow, that's complicated. no wonder it reached 8 pages and is going on.


get a life, whiners and haters.

Take it easy with the name calling there. I've been observing your posts in this thread and this is not the first instance you've done this.

Sorry if I touched the nerve of any sour losers here.

USA does cheat. USA government and media did cover up their cheats. there is no freaking reason and moral ground that you can single out Chinese with your pathetic speculations (they cheated on age, they must be cheating again), other than being a sour loser, meh.


WELL, YOU WERE ASKED TO CALM DOWN A BIT AND YOU DIDN'T, SO I THINK IT'S PRETTY FAIR TO MAKE THIS A PUBLIC WARNING.

REMEMBER ALL, WE CAN DISCUSS ABOUT WHATEVER YOU WANT BUT EVERYBODY NO MATTER WHAT HAS TO RESPECT THE POST AND ABOVE ALL, THE IDEAS AND BELIEFS OTHER POSTERS HAVE.

BM

[sonny]

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/h ... mpics.html
and
http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/o ... o-for.html

[canoner]

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/hack-olympics.html
and
http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/o ... o-for.html

How hard is it to modify the cache files on Bidu's server? It is an easy job. This kind of evidences won't fly.

[BadWolf]

Yeah... People who believed Mark McGuire and Jones are gullible. It would be stupid not to question their accomplishments when they were significantly better than the standard deviation of the rest of the elite athletes of their sport.

I have to quote that
PPL were attacked left and right when they said that about Phelps in doping thread
Not to mention tons of evidence that was posted about how that'0s impossible;)

back on topic
If the best gymnast is 14 years old, why held olympics for the title of the 2nd best?

I more or less think He is underage, don't think that matters and the rule should be changed.
Until there's hard evidence there's really nothing IOC can do about it.

[dougthonus]

Yeah... People who believed Mark McGuire and Jones are gullible. It would be stupid not to question their accomplishments when they were significantly better than the standard deviation of the rest of the elite athletes of their sport.

I guess it depends, are we talking about when the story first broke or at the time of accomplishments? At the time of accomplishments we weren't really in the frame of mind to suspect anything yet. Once the stories broke and the evidence was out there you'd have had to have been gullible.

PPL were attacked left and right when they said that about Phelps in doping thread

It's certainly possible that Phelps juiced or did something, but he submitted to voluntary blood testing where they can check his blood 10 years from now with newer technology to find anything. If he's guilty he will absolutely be caught, and he should be smart enough to know that anything he takes will eventually be detectable in the blood stream if he gives them blood they can use later. So while I wouldn't put it in the "no way in hell" category by any stretch, I also wouldn't say that I'd necessarily suspect him either.

He also doesn't fit the profile of our other steroid freaks by performing historically great events way past his prime. That's what should have tipped people off about many other guilty parties in advance. On the other hand, while sad, it's definitely true that any premier athlete is automatically suspected of juicing regardless of what they do to prove otherwise. Phelps will always have at least some question marks over his head in the minds of many Americans (and probably those world wide) for being great regardless of whether there is evidence or not just due to the era his achievements took place in.

[dacher]

I'm very skeptical of US media and whatever their outrage of the moment is: naming names, assigning guilt, spinning their so called "evidence" in the court of TV ratings.

Journalist are talkers and not doers who usually don't really know or care what they are looking at or the context of what they are talking about.

I'm not even talking about bogus government news stories pushed on the world for years: like Iraq WMD, Atlanta Olympics Bomber. Anthrax terrorist.

Nancy Grace is my #1 example building her entire career on pumping and dumping lurid tabloid cases like Jon Bonet Ramsey, FLDS, Natalee Holloway, Priness Diana.

I give Chinese benefit of the doubt-- I posted my own photo evidence that He is the same height and more normal physique than Shawn Johnson. See, I can do my own e-vestigation too, just like some so called AP reporter's hacker friend.

Who are these media sources that they are credible and should be believed? I know first-hand there are some well resourced China haters out there, FauLunGong among others, who are not above feeding slander, fabrications and evidence to gullible, no-integrity US news media.

Even if the web evidence is real, maybe the Chinese are just really bad about keeping records. You never heard of web site with bad data? Maybe Chinese gymnast coaches claimed a lower age in some competition in China to compete in tournaments with upper age limit a long time ago and their old "fake id" stuck around and coming back to bite them. How many times do you fill out false age on the internet? How many kids do you think click the "18+" button when they aren't. I know I never give my real DOB and often give a fake year.

[BadWolf]

PPL were attacked left and right when they said that about Phelps in doping thread

It's certainly possible that Phelps juiced or did something, but he submitted to voluntary blood testing where they can check his blood 10 years from now with newer technology to find anything. If he's guilty he will absolutely be caught, and he should be smart enough to know that anything he takes will eventually be detectable in the blood stream if he gives them blood they can use later. So while I wouldn't put it in the "no way in hell" category by any stretch, I also wouldn't say that I'd necessarily suspect him either.

He also doesn't fit the profile of our other steroid freaks by performing historically great events way past his prime. That's what should have tipped people off about many other guilty parties in advance. On the other hand, while sad, it's definitely true that any premier athlete is automatically suspected of juicing regardless of what they do to prove otherwise. Phelps will always have at least some question marks over his head in the minds of many Americans (and probably those world wide) for being great regardless of whether there is evidence or not just due to the era his achievements took place in.

nice said

[Slava]

team of dopers complaint about team of false agers?
wow, that's complicated. no wonder it reached 8 pages and is going on.


get a life, whiners and haters.

Take it easy with the name calling there. I've been observing your posts in this thread and this is not the first instance you've done this.

Sorry if I touched the nerve of any sour losers here.

USA does cheat. USA government and media did cover up their cheats. there is no freaking reason and moral ground that you can single out Chinese with your pathetic speculations (they cheated on age, they must be cheating again), other than being a sour loser, meh.

You just don't seem to get it do you?

Check PM.

[dougthonus]

Even if the web evidence is real, maybe the Chinese are just really bad about keeping records. You never heard of web site with bad data? Maybe Chinese gymnast coaches claimed a lower age in some competition in China to compete in tournaments with upper age limit a long time ago and their old "fake id" stuck around and coming back to bite them. How many times do you fill out false age on the internet? How many kids do you think click the "18+" button when they aren't. I know I never give my real DOB and often give a fake year.

If it weren't for China's long history of cheating in this way, I would find this to be a somewhat credible argument.

Occam's razor my friend.

Girls look underage.
Girls are reported as being underage according to other provincial tournament documents
Girls are reported as being underage according to historical news reports
China has a history of falsifying ages including doctoring legal documents in this sport

Yes, it's possible that these athletes are totally legit. However, it certainly doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

Barry Bonds bulked up and started outperforming all of his piers in his late 30s
Barry Bonds is connected with one of the companies which is busted for producing HGH and steroids
Barry Bond's trainer has given steroids to others and refuses to testify about Barry Bonds and remain in jail instead

It's possible that Barry Bonds didn't use steroids. However, it certainly doesn't fit the circumstances.

[canoner]

It's certainly possible that Phelps juiced or did something, but he submitted to voluntary blood testing where they can check his blood 10 years from now with newer technology to find anything. If he's guilty he will absolutely be caught, and he should be smart enough to know that anything he takes will eventually be detectable in the blood stream if he gives them blood they can use later. So while I wouldn't put it in the "no way in hell" category by any stretch, I also wouldn't say that I'd necessarily suspect him either.

But if one wants to be cynical, he can say that the test results were fabricated or the blood sample was processed first, or USOC bribed the test examiners, then you will have no way to prove Phelps' innocence, will you?

I don't question Phelps. I am just saying if one goes on the cynical path as some posters did, everything is up to question and there is no much one can do to prove anything one way or the other.

[canoner]

1)Girls look underage.
2)Girls are reported as being underage according to other provincial tournament documents
3)Girls are reported as being underage according to historical news reports
4)China has a history of falsifying ages including doctoring legal documents in this sport

1) as underage as Johnson
2) cache files could be planted by people behind this witch hunt
3) news reports always have erros
4) past record is irrelevent. US government has a history of fabricating evidence, so it is just as possible that all these "evidences" are fabricated by US government and planted on the web.

See, taking your cynical approach, everything has an answer.