Robbed?: post your complaints

[dougthonus]

But if one wants to be cynical, he can say that the test results were fabricated or the blood sample was processed first, or USOC bribed the test examiners, then you will have no way to prove Phelps' innocence, will you?

I don't question Phelps. I am just saying if one goes on the cynical path as some posters did, everything is up to question and there is no much one can do to prove anything one way or the other.

That would be an accurate parallel if there was some evidence that suggested Phelps used steroids. However there isn't that I'm aware of. That being said, I would suspect there are a great number of people in the world who will suspect that he's juiced.

I wouldn't question the age of the Chinese girls purely based on looks and past history. It's looks + history + evidence + covering up of evidence that makes the case.

[canoner]

But if one wants to be cynical, he can say that the test results were fabricated or the blood sample was processed first, or USOC bribed the test examiners, then you will have no way to prove Phelps' innocence, will you?

I don't question Phelps. I am just saying if one goes on the cynical path as some posters did, everything is up to question and there is no much one can do to prove anything one way or the other.

That would be an accurate parallel if there was some evidence that suggested Phelps used steroids. However there isn't that I'm aware of. That being said, I would suspect there are a great number of people in the world who will suspect that he's juiced.

I wouldn't question the age of the Chinese girls purely based on looks and past history. It's looks + history + evidence + covering up of evidence that makes the case.

I think it is already estalished:

1) He looks as underage as Johnson. So that is out. Would you stop repeating false information?
2) history has no bearing on this. It is just as possible that USOC planted the "evidences" given its history.
3) There is NO proff of cover-up, because there is no proof of evidence in the first place. The so-called "evidences" are cached files possibly planted by the people behind this smear campaign.

[canoner]

That would be an accurate parallel if there was some evidence that suggested Phelps used steroids. However there isn't that I'm aware of. That being said, I would suspect there are a great number of people in the world who will suspect that he's juiced.

One can quote Jones. American athletes testing negative doesn't mean they are clean. That is how reasonable you are.

[dougthonus]

1) He looks as underage as Johnson. So that is out. Would you stop repeating false information?

Subjective opinion, but no, I don't think it's even remotely close.

2) history has no bearing on this. It is just as possible that USOC planted the "evidences" given its history.

History certainly has a baring on this, and you can't be serious if you think the USOC is hacking into Chinese governmental servers and newspapers to plant stories and fix governmental records.

3) There is NO proff of cover-up, because there is no proof of evidence in the first place. The so-called "evidences" are cached files possibly planted by the people behind this smear campaign.

I haven't seen the real files in this case, but I've seen them in Yi Jianlian's case and I watched them disappear when articles were written about his age, because I was investigating it myself for a website. Call me cynical, but I have a lot of first hand experience dealing with a Chinese age cover ups in the past.

[canoner]

1) He looks as underage as Johnson. So that is out. Would you stop repeating false information?

Subjective opinion, but no, I don't think it's even remotely close.

2) history has no bearing on this. It is just as possible that USOC planted the "evidences" given its history.

History certainly has a baring on this, and you can't be serious if you think the USOC is hacking into Chinese governmental servers and newspapers to plant stories and fix governmental records.

3) There is NO proff of cover-up, because there is no proof of evidence in the first place. The so-called "evidences" are cached files possibly planted by the people behind this smear campaign.

I haven't seen the real files in this case, but I've seen them in Yi Jianlian's case and I watched them disappear when articles were written about his age, because I was investigating it myself for a website. Call me cynical, but I have a lot of first hand experience dealing with a Chinese age cover ups in the past.

He and Johnson are similar height, similar weight. I don't know what is not close.

It wouldn't be the first time that an US government agency hack into other servers or simply fabricate "evidence" out of thin air. Are you this short-memory? Besides, it is not even a newspaper or government record. It is Bidu.com, a open-ended website that pretty much anyone can post. And there is no proof who uploaded the cached files.

If you have not seen the real files in this case, how can you be sure what you are talking about. You discredit yourself in this case. And I am supposed to take your word on Yi's case, after you wrote on page #7 of this thread ":rofl: There is not a kid I've ever met that would ever understate their age. Kids always want to be older " ? If you had done what you said regarding Yi's case you wouldn't have said the above, would you?

I think you just lost your credibility.

[dougthonus]

It wouldn't be the first time that an US government agency hack into other servers or simply fabricate "evidence" out of thin air. Are you this short-memory?

If you have not seen the real files in this case, how can you be sure what you are talking about. You discredit yourself in this case. And I am supposed to take your word on Yi's case, after you wrote on page #7 of this thread ":rofl: There is not a kid I've ever met that would ever understate their age. Kids always want to be older " ? If you had done what you said regarding Yi's case you wouldn't have said the above, would you?

I think you just lost your credibility.

1) Yi lying about his age at 23 saying he's 19 wouldn't qualify him as a kid.

2) My comment was a hyperbolic reply to your absolutely ridiculous assertion that the Chinese athletes lied about their age previously to be younger because women like to do that.

Thinking about that assertion and you theory that the US government hacked into Chinese servers to put up documents and take them away has made me realize how little merit there is in arguing with someone who's opion is based on such foolishness.

[canoner]

And my response to you is: know what you are talking about first and in this case, the cached files are not even from a government website but you still keep repeating misinformation. You seem to be pretty good at ignoring where you were wrong.

And I wasn't making the accusation. I was simply pointing out that there are alternative possibilities, if we are to be cynical. Cannot you read I post a few pages back? I am the one between us two who is still open to two possible scenarios. You have shut the door long ago.

[canoner]

Regarding Yi's age: the record has been consistent since he started playing ball in clubs which dated back at least when he was 13. If you question his age, you must be saying that he understated his age since he was that young. A 13-year old is a kid in my book.

[5DOM]

Regarding Yi's age: the record has been consistent since he started playing ball in clubs which dated back at least when he was 13. If you question his age, you must be saying that he understated his age since he was that young. A 13-year old is a kid in my book.

there are numerous evidences that suggest otherwise.

Shadenfreude knows well of this issue, but it doesnt seem like he posts here.

[canoner]

Regarding Yi's age: the record has been consistent since he started playing ball in clubs which dated back at least when he was 13. If you question his age, you must be saying that he understated his age since he was that young. A 13-year old is a kid in my book.

there are numerous evidences that suggest otherwise.

Shadenfreude knows well of this issue, but it doesnt seem like he posts here.

This is not a debate regarding Yi's age though. Dougthonus earlier on said he does know one kid understate his age, then later said Yi clearly unstated his age. Yi may or may not have understated his age, I am not convinced either way and I don't really care. I just wanted to pointed out the flip-flopping of dougthonus.

[5DOM]

it's just age falsification. why is it so hard to understand?

underage gymnasts try to overstate their age.
draftees try to understate their age.

[canoner]

it's just age falsification. why is it so hard to understand?

underage gymnasts try to overstate their age.
draftees try to understate their age.

It is also easy to understand: provincial teams and media understated gymnasts' age to boast what prodigies they were how how much potential they had, similar as Yi's situation.

There is actually a stronger incentive for draftees to overstate their ages because of the minimum age limit.

[5DOM]

it's just age falsification. why is it so hard to understand?

underage gymnasts try to overstate their age.
draftees try to understate their age.

It is also easy to understand: provincial teams and media understated gymnasts' age to boast what prodigies they were how how much potential they had, similar as Yi's situation.

There is actually a stronger incentive for draftees to overstate their ages because of the minimum age limit.

except 19 is already over the minimum age limit. and yi was obviously not under 19. or was he

[canoner]

it's just age falsification. why is it so hard to understand?

underage gymnasts try to overstate their age.
draftees try to understate their age.

It is also easy to understand: provincial teams and media understated gymnasts' age to boast what prodigies they were how how much potential they had, similar as Yi's situation.

There is actually a stronger incentive for draftees to overstate their ages because of the minimum age limit.

except 19 is already over the minimum age limit. and yi was obviously not under 19. or was he

But Chinese media had been hyping Yi for years, ever since he was 13-14. You clearly don't know his case well enough to comment on it.

[dougthonus]

And my response to you is: know what you are talking about first and in this case, the cached files are not even from a government website but you still keep repeating misinformation. You seem to be pretty good at ignoring where you were wrong.

The original files documented were from the Chinese server. The cache just happens to document China's coverup. However, original reports showed the files being on their server and then disappearing.

And I wasn't making the accusation. I was simply pointing out that there are alternative possibilities, if we are to be cynical. Cannot you read I post a few pages back? I am the one between us two who is still open to two possible scenarios. You have shut the door long ago.

Yep, I shut the door a long time ago. I also shut the door on Barry Bonds possible innocence as well as Roger Clemons as well as the idea that we might have 3 moons orbiting the Earth.

But Chinese media had been hyping Yi for years, ever since he was 13-14. You clearly don't know his case well enough to comment on it.

Except he is really 17-18 at the time.

[manun]

I cant believe some ppl are complaining that some kids beat them, if anything u want them to be older to make the loss not so embarrassing. Cmon if kid can beat u then obviously u shouldnt complain, olympics is the worlds best. Doesnt matter age, if u cant hold ur jock strap then u suck, plain and simple.
China cheats? Man, this is getting way out of game. Whenever i c any sports it says china cheats and that americans have never cheated. U got these hype up stared Marion Jones that used drugs and her husband, then the list is sooo damn long that its funny how u ppl hail them as winners and call other losers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics ... list_x.htm

Plz cheater . Underage is huge cheating but using enhancing drugs is not cheating

• American sprinter Torri Edwards had her two-year drug suspension upheld by an arbitration panel during the Games. She tested positive for a stimulant at an April meet.

http://www.pr-inside.com/doping-cheats- ... 736202.htm

American sprinter Justin Gatlin, the 2004 Olympic champion in the 100, lost an appeal to overturn a ban for a second drug violation in 2006.

China have yet to produce a medal winner that uses doping. Americans have a handful of them already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_ ... mpic_Games

7 doping cases that had medals compared to a measly dude in china volley ball team which didnt even play more than 1 game, china even came last and the doping case was a big scandal.
3 of the americans also won gold , and here we are arguing underage girls kickin americans asses ^_^

[RockTHECasbah]

why do people keep making this China vs. America?

no one is denying that Americans can be huge cheaters too

[manun]

why do people keep making this China vs. America?

no one is denying that Americans can be huge cheaters too

Cause ppl keep posting stuff about china cheating? U gotta look who started it 2, the first 5 posts had china cheating related material. Also its not chinese ppl talking down on other ppls medals, all i heard is how ppl say divin sync sucks etc etc. A gold medal is a medal, and the sport isnt picked by a country but a whole commite (yes, china have all the power )

[RockTHECasbah]

so what, because America cheats, China's cheating becomes absolved?

[manun]

so what, because America cheats, China's cheating becomes absolved?

When did china cheat? Ur eyes always sees what they want, Plato talked about how this world seen in ur world is just an image of someone casting shadows in ur brain. This is exactly the case.