FFDL [draft starts this Saturday!]

bww78 · Post #1001 » by **bww78** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:23 pm

TheMan makes a great point. There certainly wasn't any leniency on the Gallinari situation.

And Stanford certainly was one for zero tolerance in that situation, while he appears to be asking the court to ignore that precedent now.

Craig, what about Theman and the Gallinari situation? How do we square that with your thoughts on leniency?

Post #1002 » by **sly** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:39 pm

I'm not sure of the situation, to be honest. I wasn't active enough to be involved. I do know that there's a certain level of inactiveness that can be expected in the offseason. There's also some expectation that a manager will 'check-in' in a reasonable amount of time. I would have contacted theman, certainly... to give the heads up. Probably more than once. If the league needed to move forward, I would have then chose the player to be cut, personally. Gallinari's value was a lot different last year than it is this year. Would I have chose him? No idea. When cutting the last player off of somebody's roster, certainly, this isn't a league-altering decision if the commissioner takes in on. Do you doubt that - at the time of the cut - Gallinari was near the bottom of the roster as far as actual fantasy value goes?

bww78 wrote:TheMan makes a great point. There certainly wasn't any leniency on the Gallinari situation.

And Stanford certainly was one for zero tolerance in that situation, while he appears to be asking the court to ignore that precedent now.

Craig, what about Theman and the Gallinari situation? How do we square that with your thoughts on leniency?

hamncheese · Post #1003 » by **hamncheese** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:13 pm

My impression from the whole Gallinari incident was that theMan was being made an example of not paying attention to the league, and it was easy enough to side either way. If I recall correctly, there were three teams that didn't announce the players to cut prior to the deadline in June. I believe it was me, theMan, and east. Jordan cut the players that I intended to cut so I had no complaints but would've voiced so if he did. I noticed he made cuts a few days after so my complaints would've come up sooner rather than later. I think that east did disagree with Jordan's choice, but can't recall how that was resolved. I think that came up within a month of the cut. Now I think with theMan, he took issue with the cut in September, maybe late August, so some time had passed. He did mention that he wasn't notified via email, but this league has always made the injury cut back in May/June and Jordan did post the dates I think both in the Yahoo message and in this forum, so it wasn't a surprise. In my case, I forgot about it. Overall, there was some personal brickerbratting about this masked under the guise of following the rules, which takes us to today.

I agree with Craig about not having zero-tolerance. I want this to be fun. Mistakes should be taken on case by case basis. I think with Gallinari, there's a good possibility that theMan would've kept him in May, but only theMan knows for sure. I'm gueesing that Jordan dropped Gallinari, because he was the lowest ranked player on theMan's team at the end of the season. I think what differentiates theMan's mistake of not paying attention to the drop deadline over the recent mistakes of putting a player on IL early is the time in which these mistake were noticed and corrected.

writersblock · Post #1004 » by **writersblock** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:02 pm

Carl, Carl, Carl...

You can call foul all you want, but I did not catch you in points or 3s, as I said. In fact, the only stat I did catch you in is FG%, and my team, being mostly big men, SHOULD have caught you in FG%. That was natural. I'll add here that your little enjoyment of Iverson being back did nothing to help your cause, as he shot pretty horrendously.

Fact is, it should have been 5-4 in your favor, but YOUR addition of James Johnson helped you tie me in blocks, whereas, otherwise, I would have had the advantage.

and by placeholder, I mean, a place where I put a player while I'm missing my 2 IL players, or a place to put a player who may have the chance to explode but may not. It's a fickle strategy, but that's me.

As for this whole rules debate, I also side with Sly. I think the league has to be fun, first and foremost. Mistakes like Coady's should be granted some leniency. What would I have done with the Gallinari situation? I think earlier that I mentioned that TheMAn should have checked in every once in a while...but I'm starting to think otherwise, that even though he didn't check in, he should have had the chance to switch out his dropped player (Galinari) before the draft. I can't remember if it held up the draft or not...if it did, then I can see why Jordan did what he did. All in all, though, I think everything has to be considered case-by-case, and in this case, Coady deserves to keep ODen.

theman · Post #1005 » by **theman** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:17 pm

I think Stanford was intentionally trying to bend the rules to get an extra player into his line up so he would win 3ptm vs YS. It was already brought up that players had to miss 5 games. It would have only been logical for Stanford to go to the team page as soon as Oden got hurt and see when the fifth game would be and target that date as the day to drop Oden to the IL.

But Stanford being an egotist didn't want to run the risk of only beating YS 6-3, and FG% and FT% are always tricky so Stanford needed to stream in a player in order to ensure a victory.

Stanford took a calculated risk that he would not be caught, but he was. He should be punished accordingly.

For the record, Stanford will now have had the benefit of Wright on his team for two games while Oden still has not missed his fifth.

bww78 · Post #1006 » by **bww78** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:33 pm

sly wrote:I'm not sure of the situation, to be honest. I wasn't active enough to be involved. I do know that there's a certain level of inactiveness that can be expected in the offseason. There's also some expectation that a manager will 'check-in' in a reasonable amount of time. I would have contacted theman, certainly... to give the heads up. Probably more than once. If the league needed to move forward, I would have then chose the player to be cut, personally. Gallinari's value was a lot different last year than it is this year. Would I have chose him? No idea. When cutting the last player off of somebody's roster, certainly, this isn't a league-altering decision if the commissioner takes in on. Do you doubt that - at the time of the cut - Gallinari was near the bottom of the roster as far as actual fantasy value goes?

But TheMan showed up after the decision was made, but before any further league activity had transpired, and asked that Gallinari be added back to his roster and to drop a different player. It was a mistake on his part, yes, but when he asked if he could have the mistake corrected, he was given the "zero tolerance" policy instead. How is that different than the Oden or the Griffin situations?

Post #1007 » by **sly** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:20 pm

I'm not here defending YS or anybody else. I'm just stating my opinion about what I would do in this circumstance and why I dislike absolute rule sets where there is no compromise. I wasn't involved nor around during the time that the Gallinari issue was taking place. If you're asking me to change my opinion based on some precedence than I won't.

bww78 wrote:
sly wrote:I'm not sure of the situation, to be honest. I wasn't active enough to be involved. I do know that there's a certain level of inactiveness that can be expected in the offseason. There's also some expectation that a manager will 'check-in' in a reasonable amount of time. I would have contacted theman, certainly... to give the heads up. Probably more than once. If the league needed to move forward, I would have then chose the player to be cut, personally. Gallinari's value was a lot different last year than it is this year. Would I have chose him? No idea. When cutting the last player off of somebody's roster, certainly, this isn't a league-altering decision if the commissioner takes in on. Do you doubt that - at the time of the cut - Gallinari was near the bottom of the roster as far as actual fantasy value goes?

But TheMan showed up after the decision was made, but before any further league activity had transpired, and asked that Gallinari be added back to his roster and to drop a different player. It was a mistake on his part, yes, but when he asked if he could have the mistake corrected, he was given the "zero tolerance" policy instead. How is that different than the Oden or the Griffin situations?

east · Post #1008 » by **east** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:44 pm

Hey all,

I wanted to weigh in on several issues if it still matters...In general, I agree with Sly and also prefer a collegial league that doesn't need strict zero-tolerance rules.

Streaming - I don't really have a problem with streaming in this league due to the dynasty format, however I would be in favor of a limit of 4-5 moves per week. That should allow us to still look for those elusive wire keepers and limit competitive streaming.

TheMan (Gallo situation) - I always felt bad about the decision that upheld taking away Gallo from TM as opposed to me and Ham. I thought the deciding factor was that Theman hadn't checked in for at least several weeks while me and Ham noticed the cuts within a few days or so.

theman · Post #1009 » by **theman** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:49 pm

Young_Star11 wrote:Why can't you use the #1 priority?

If theman adds Oden, he will have to wait five games.

This sounds to me like the commissioner believes that Stanford should lose Oden.

Stanford wrote:
Young_Star11 wrote:Why can't you use the #1 priority?

You can't put a waiver claim on a player you've dropped.

Isn't this the Blake Griffin rule?

Did we even decide what that rule was? The way I see it, Jordan only got Griffin back because a) He's the commisioner and b) I bitched about it enough.

Sounds like Stanford conceding he should lose him.

Young_Star11 wrote:Honest mistake and no immediate advantage. In your case, you are preserving a lead in 3PTM against me. Funnily enough, you are using Dorell Wright, a former Youngster.

Again, the commissioner sides with Stanford losing Oden.

If Stanford and the commissioner agree that Oden should fall to the waiver wire why is this still being discuss.

And for the record. I have already looked at Portland's upcoming schedule and know that he will be eligible to be moved to my IL following their game on Dec. 23. Sort of a Christmas present.

Post #1010 » by **Stanford** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:04 am

bww78 wrote:And Stanford certainly was one for zero tolerance in that situation, while he appears to be asking the court to ignore that precedent now.

I haven't said a god damn thing about the resolution of this issue. I've done it on purpose so I wouldn't see comments like this. Unfortunatly, you people seem to be pining an argument to me based on assumptions.

sly wrote:Zero tolerance rules suck. They're insulting to me. They're directed only for people who choose winning and team success over anything else.

I'd rather have a relaxed league full of decent people instead of a league ruled with absolutes. Personally, I wouldn't want my team to benefit from a manager accidentally accepting a trade, or from misreading boxscores.

For the record, this is how I feel. And it's comments like this:

theman wrote:I think Stanford was intentionally trying to bend the rules to get an extra player into his line up so he would win 3ptm vs YS. It was already brought up that players had to miss 5 games. It would have only been logical for Stanford to go to the team page as soon as Oden got hurt and see when the fifth game would be and target that date as the day to drop Oden to the IL.

But Stanford being an egotist didn't want to run the risk of only beating YS 6-3, and FG% and FT% are always tricky so Stanford needed to stream in a player in order to ensure a victory.

Stanford took a calculated risk that he would not be caught, but he was. He should be punished accordingly.

For the record, Stanford will now have had the benefit of Wright on his team for two games while Oden still has not missed his fifth.

That have made me decide not to come back next year. And this isn't me thinking about it so I might grab some attention or sympathy, it's a pretty easy decision that I don't have to think much about. This whole season has left a horrible taste in my mouth, and quite frankly, it's not fun anymore. At all.

Theman is clearly the owner of Oden right now as nothing can get done in this league. It's way too late to return him to my team.

theman · Post #1011 » by **theman** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:56 am

Stanford wrote:He clearly can't bare to face me in the playoffs. Probably better off this way.

It is comments like this that keep me away from the tread except during the season.

Stanford wrote:
Not at all! One less person for me to worry about.

And this.

Stanford wrote:

You suck too!

Not to mention this.

Stanford wrote:
theman wrote:Would one courtesy email be to much effort on the part of anyone on this board?

How about you show the entire league some courtesy and act like you actually give a **** about this league.

And this is why I think no leniency should be shown to you.

Not to mention this.

Stanford wrote:Give me a break. I would hope you'd be a little more dedicated to this league than to just wait around for someone to email you. Were you not aware rosters were cut down in the offseason?

theman · Post #1012 » by **theman** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:13 am

For the record the only mention of cut down on this board are this

bww78 wrote:Hey Jordan,

I'm dropping Rasho and Farmar to make room for my IL guys. Thanks.

and this

east wrote:Any updates on the draft?

Or dropping Batum for Tyson Chandler on my IL?

However, the commissioners notes on offseason activity are as follows:

Young_Star11 wrote:2009 Rookie/Free Agent Draft

Notes:
The 2009 FFDL Draft Lottery was conducted on Saturday, 23 May by RealGM Fantasy Basketball moderator nostradamus2005.

The actual draft will start in late August.

RULE - The 2009 draft will be only two rounds, as many of you will now. This is also mainly because we've had many a pick forfeit in recent times in the late rounds.

RULE - The draft does NOT snake.

RULE - The champion, as always, will have the last pick of each round. As Stanford was both the regular-season winner and the overall winner, we have no debate here.

RULE - 2012 picks now available for trade

RULE - Those who finish 2nd to 6th will only receive 1 ball. Those who finish 7th to 9th will receive 3 balls. Those who finish 10th to 12th will receive 5 balls. Those who finish 13th and 14th will receive 8 lottery balls.

Picks

Everyone owns their own 1st and 2nd, EXCEPT for:

- tkunit's 1st belongs to YS
- tkunit's 2nd also belongs to YS
- theman's 1st belongs to Stanford
- WB's 1st also belongs to Stanford
- Stanford's 2nd belongs to WB

Lottery

The 2009 FFDL Draft Lottery was conducted on Saturday, 23 May by RealGM Fantasy Basketball moderator nostradamus2005.

Pre-draft, the number of lottery balls per manager was as follows:

YS x 16
Stan x 6
sly x 5
Skai x 5
Setterlund x 3
insfo x 3
east x 3
bww x 1
AlciG x 1
Kohanz x 1
hamncheese x 1

The lottery results are summarized in the following post.

Where does it mention of the cut down date? :dontknow:

theman · Post #1013 » by **theman** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:44 am

Stanford wrote:
bww78 wrote:And Stanford certainly was one for zero tolerance in that situation, while he appears to be asking the court to ignore that precedent now.

I haven't said a god damn thing about the resolution of this issue. I've done it on purpose so I wouldn't see comments like this. Unfortunatly, you people seem to be pining an argument to me based on assumptions.

Actually, people have been lobbying on your behalf. In fact, I EMAILED YS before Oden's waiver date expired. I guess I showed TOO much interest in this league. :dontknow:

Stanford wrote:
sly wrote:Zero tolerance rules suck. They're insulting to me. They're directed only for people who choose winning and team success over anything else.

I'd rather have a relaxed league full of decent people instead of a league ruled with absolutes. Personally, I wouldn't want my team to benefit from a manager accidentally accepting a trade, or from misreading boxscores.

For the record, this is how I feel.

I agree with Sly also. It was you and YS that wanted no leniency for me this summer, so I assumed it was a zero tolerance league.

Post #1014 » by **Young_Star11** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:30 am

LEAGUE ANNOUNCEMENT

I have given (back) the commish duties of FFDL to it's original commissioner, Craig. He has been very busy over the last 1-2 years, which is why I agreed to assume the role for this time. I have always looked upon the role as administrator, rather than commish, and maybe this is why I have found it hard to make the tough league decisions.

I also feel that this is the right time to step down from commish, and I take responsibility for perhaps setting off a huge can of worms. I never intended for FFDL to eventuate into a league with disgruntled managers wanting to quit etc.

I feel Craig coming back on aboard will add stability to the league, a league that personally has had it's ups and downs for me - from the heights of playoffs in year one, to two shocking seasons, and to my new team, which is deep and perhaps be leading the Most Improved Team category.

Finally, whilst I have been commish, I have never had a vendetta against any manager in the league. theman is well within his rights to question this, but Danilo Gallinari was dropped because he was looking like a big time bust last season, and with a back injury. In addition to this, you had him on your IL for whole lot of the season (though he was playing)...and although you can say that was you 'holding onto a good thing', your intentions made it clear (at least to me) that you didn't want him. For Griffin and Oden, you just happened to be the manager that picked up on it.

EDIT - I see theman just dropped Jordan Hill to the IL. Danilo 2.0?

Post #1015 » by **CFan21** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:38 am

Hooray!

Post #1016 » by **CFan21** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 am

For the record Jordan, I appreciate all you've done for the league and how demanding it is to be the commish. I run the FFDL baseball league and I know how much extra work it is. It just seems like you haven't had a lot of time of late and I know you're making this move because you think it's the best thing for the league and not to shed responsibility.

bww78 · Post #1017 » by **bww78** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:32 am

So what do we do with Coady's team next year? We'd be nuts to just hand that team over to some owner we don't know. And the thought *cringe* of handing it over to Fraan is just horrid.

Post #1018 » by **CFan21** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:53 am

I it's too early to even think about that stuff. These are the most emotion filled times the league has gone through in a while and I think Coady et al. should think on this one for a while. With all the funny business going on even I thought about the "this needs to change or else I leave" threat or just leaving, but it took me about 5 minutes to realize I wasn't serious. Other people sometimes need longer than that though.

Post #1019 » by **Young_Star11** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:55 am

If it has been me alienating you guys, I'll be the one to leave.

Skai · Post #1020 » by **Skai** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:45 am

As a long-time member of this league, I really hope that nobody leaves.

YS, you've done a fine job commissioning this league and you bring a great deal of passion that not many bring to fantasy sports. Yes, some mistakes have been made, but they are certainly not enough to prompt your leaving.

Stanford, I don't think you should consider leaving either. Come on, you've put a lot of effort to be where you are today and you're willing to let it all go based on a few minor (IMHO) occurrences.

I think we should let everything and simply move on. With Sly back on as commissioner, it's time for a clean slate amongst us all. Let's all just have fun and enjoy quite possibly one of the longest-standing fantasy leagues in the history of RealGM.