FFKL 2007-08 [Winner: east!]

[KalElen]

VOTE:

1. a)

2. d)

3. b)

4. a)

5. b)

6. a)

7. c)

8. b)

9. d)

[KalElen]

Jamario Moon
Daequan Cook
Rodney Stuckey
Julian Wright
Wilson Chandler
are all available, i'm keeping Jeff Green. i'm gonna be looking for draft upgrades or upgrade of my 4th keeper (one of m. miller and t. chandler) in exchange for rookies.

draft lottery will be done in about 2 weeks time, after the lottery system is established (through a league vote during this week). that way you can choose to either trade your picks (with protections or without them) in a week leading to lottery or to trade exact draft picks after the lottery.

[KalElen]

ok guys i'd really like for everyone to put an end to this fighting. young_star certainly didn't handle things in a best way but that's all there is to it. it is his right to quit the league if he doesn't like new rules and it is his right to let everyone know it, so no rules were broken. i'm gonna tell you which of remaining 9 rules i'd REALLY like to see implemented and i hope nobody feels i'm pushing them to anybody, i just feel strongly about them. only part i don't like is that new gm next year/reduced role one, but i don't think that he would commit to a league and give it less then 100%. i might be wrong but i don't think i am.

i will tell you this and i don't really care how anyone takes it: if the activity level of this league doesn't improve i'm gonna quit after this season. i was considering it until few weeks ago, but decided to give it another shot. if my trade offers go ignored, season ends with very few or no trades and i receive bunch of bs offers i'm gonna quit rather then waste my time on something not deserving.

btw i didn't do for young_star anything i wouldn't do for Stanford or any other deserving member of the board/league and all i did was split the vote into 2 parts. this way we got 2 check-ins in stead of one so it's even beneficial for the league (and weeding out inactive gms).


writersblock, please feel free to comment on anything you'd like, especially if it's constructive criticism, and lobby for any rule changes you wish. being new to the league doesn't reduce value of your opinion to the league, but gives you different perspective from returning members which might prove very valuable.

as for dynasty league i would probably vote for it but it would have to be gradual change. that means maybe 6 or 7 players next year 8-10 year after that etc. we can't just go from 4+ to 12 or 16 in a year. it would also have to pass a league vote of course


finally i want to bring to everyone's attention that i feel very strongly about 2 particular rule changes and would like to be given a chance to persuade you with my arguments:

2. il positions:
d) 1 il spot that can be used no more then 2 times during the season and seil

and

9. draft lottery system:
d) everyone enters the lottery with tank preventing distribution of chances (there is a software that does this quite easily, customize chances of winning the lottery that is):
1% chance – top 2
2% chance - next 2
3% chance - next 2
9% chance – next 6 (consolation participants)
10% chance – bottom 4

2. d) i think that il spots were being abused last season (i know i did it) by putting relatively insignificant players on it and reducing fa pool. it wasn't against the rules, but it was against the purpose of il spots. i think that il spots are intended to help you in case of an injury to prominent player period. proposed rule ensures just that. it also adds to the strategy by making it a valuable resource but limited resource thus making you think twice before using it

i feel REALLY REALLY strong about this one
9. d) as it stands today this is not the dynasty league, we keep just 4+2 players so turning things around in just one year should be quite doable. it shouldn't be too hard for a good gm to do a few trades where he gives away some depth to contenders for upgrades of his keepers (providing the league is active enough, but if it isn't i'm gonna be out so i'm not gonna care one way or the other). complete turnaround is possible even without trades. take AlciG for example, he didn't do too well last season, but his 4 keepers are among best in the league and with a solid draft he can easily be contender next season. what i'm trying to say is there's no need to let bottom teams have big advantage in getting the top pick when they don't necessarily have to be the worst teams after keepers are announced. if this was a dynasty league and we kept entire rosters it would make sense to help the bottom dwellers, but not in a 4 player keeper league. on the other end of the spectrum for the same reasons good teams shouldn't be cast out of the lottery as they can easily find themselves on the bottom after winning the league. i think that weights i proposed do wonderful job of preventing tanking. getting into top 6 gives you a chance to win so there's no need to worry about that (i hope no one here would give up a chance to win in a lottery that is fantasy play-offs just so he could have a better chance at #1 pick). at the same time ending up anywhere between 7th and 16th makes just 1% difference so it makes little sense to lose integrity and erode your track record and fantasy profile in order to get that 1%. with these weights winners still have a chance at #1 (which is more then real nba allows) and all losers are almost equal. i would love to hear counter arguments form those who don't agree so we can discus this further

[writersblock]

Can I start off by saying that this "voting" thing is getting to be a little burdensome? Traditionally, people prefer just a standard league, and the more you vote the more complicated things get. Too many votes can just drag down a league and the morale.

That being said, I vote for standard Yahoo H2H rules across the board.
1. b (I think this is the Yahoo standard amount)
2. a
3. Why should there be a max on moves in the regular season? I vote no max until the playoffs (4/4/5 is fine). If this "vote" doesn't count, then I vote (b).
4. Can't Cut list? This one is a good example of my "too much voting" point, above. (b)
5. Trade deadline: See point above. (a)
6. Trade Review: (a)
7. (a)
8. a (this is also a "too much voting" thing...really, it's ticky tack...plus the fact, voting for B encourages tanking in the playoffs...which is dumb)
9. a

ANd can I just say: let's stop with the "kicking people out if they don't vote" thing...it's hard enough to replace managers in a league like this, and at this rate, we may be looking for replacement teams until December. If they dont vote, they have to live with the consequences. Plain and simple.

[writersblock]

i will tell you this and i don't really care how anyone takes it: if the activity level of this league doesn't improve i'm gonna quit after this season. i was considering it until few weeks ago, but decided to give it another shot. if my trade offers go ignored, season ends with very few or no trades and i receive bunch of bs offers i'm gonna quit rather then waste my time on something not deserving.

writersblock, please feel free to comment on anything you'd like, especially if it's constructive criticism, and lobby for any rule changes you wish. being new to the league doesn't reduce value of your opinion to the league, but gives you different perspective from returning members which might prove very valuable.

I didn't catch this one on first reading...but if I'm allowed to comment: KalElen, I appreciate your candor...but let me offer some of mine. If you're threatening to leave the league, that's fine...but the commish shouldn't ever be threatening to leave the league...ever. If the Commish waivers, the league falls, and that doesn't make for a good league.

With all due respect, I think it makes more sense to get this straightened out before the season starts, and establish a Commish that will lead this league for years, just as the FFL and FFDL leagues have been.

and...with all due respect...I'd like to take the reigns as commish if you are thinking of quitting. You can continue to be in the league of course, and if it doesn't work out for you this year, no problem. At the very least, we don't get stuck without a commish this time next year...that's just too much turnover for this league to take. I've commished a ton of leagues, so I really don't mind doing it.

I hope this suggestion is taken as it is presented: I'm not trying to push you out KalElen, but I'm just thinking about the sustainability of the league. I'm excited to be here, and I want to see the league grow. THat's all.

[Curtis Lemansky]

I think we should seriously consider and vote dynasty option right now (of course it will start next off season).What do you say Alexander?

[KalElen]

i only took the commish spot because nobody else wanted it and i wanted to keep the league alive. i said as much earlier in the thread, on page 2 or 3 i think. despite not really wanting to be the commish, once i took the job i invested time and effort into improving the league. if i didn't you and bww wouldn't be here and we would have no idea who is in and who is out, let alone make any rule changes that should improve the league. at least one other gm was considering dropping out before i took over (in addition to 2 that are gone, ys and me). if you are willing to take over as a commish i'd be more then glad to leave it to you and don't worry about that pushing out staff one bit i really don't mind it. i didn't really want it in the first place

i wanted everyone to know that i plan on playing only in active league and i don't think me keeping silent about it and then suddenly quitting at the end of next season would be a better way to handle it just because i was the commish. i was honest in what i expect form others and it was only fair to let them know what they can expect from me.

as for over voting i don't know what people think and voting is the only way to find out. this league needed rule changes and needed them badly. some of those things are just technicalities to me and you, but might be very important to others. for instance in year one we had no max moves restriction, but then there was some problem with streaming and so we made 40 moves rule. i myself could have gone either way but there were guys who felt really strongly about the issue. i think it might need changing yet again because with improving the fa pool there will be need for more moves. with trade deadline rule i want to increase trading window since we had just one trade last year. 8th is a legit question under some rule settings so it needs to be specified. can't cut list is only real technicality and yet in first 2 votes we have diffrence of opinions, i'm against it as i see no point to it in a league like this (with veteran owners)

the alternative to all the voting was for me to decide on all of these things. i could do that, but i thought league vote will get gms more involved with the league, not to mention that democracy is preferred way to go in this day and age

as long as i'm commish, i'll not stop kicking people out for inactivity. when i ask them to vote 2 weeks in a row i don't think i'm asking too much. i'm a member of another fantasy board and i'm sure i could get 2-3 gms over there if i had to. this is a keeper league, people can't just forget about it in may and remember it at draft time in september, they have to respond to trade offers whenever they get them or we have no use of them. and how are active gms supposed to send out offers if i don't get everybody to post contact e-mail? i realize threatening to kick out people doesn't sound friendly, but anyone who can't be bothered 15-20 minutes altogether to vote on some important rule changes is not the kind of gm i want to play

we've already had 2 commissioners in first to seasons and in our first season our commish quit on the league in mid-season. last year was significant improvement, but still overall league activity left much to be desired and i did my best in order to improve the league. if you are willing to take over as commish i'd like to officially ask you to do it. if you need any help don't hesitate to ask, i'll be checking in at least 3-4 times every week. either way we are cool and i'm looking forward to playing in league with you

[KalElen]

I think we should seriously consider and vote dynasty option right now (of course it will start next off season).What do you say Alexander?

as for dynasty league i would probably vote for it but it would have to be gradual change. that means maybe 6 or 7 players next year 8-10 year after that etc. we can't just go from 4+ to 12 or 16 in a year. that's the way i see it

[writersblock]

i only took the commish spot because nobody else wanted it and i wanted to keep the league alive. i said as much earlier in the thread, on page 2 or 3 i think. despite not really wanting to be the commish, once i took the job i invested time and effort into improving the league. if i didn't you and bww wouldn't be here and we would have no idea who is in and who is out, let alone make any rule changes that should improve the league. at least one other gm was considering dropping out before i took over (in addition to 2 that are gone, ys and me). if you are willing to take over as a commish i'd be more then glad to leave it to you and don't worry about that pushing out staff one bit i really don't mind it. i didn't really want it in the first place

Thanks KalElen...I would be fine taking over the league then.

[KalElen]

well then it's official from now on you are the commish. good luck man and thank you for taking on the responsibility. i repeat if you need any help do not hesitate to ask

[bww78]

I'll take Ducky's team. As for the vote:

1. number of bench spots:
b) 3


2. il positions:
a) 2 il spots with no restrictions(current rule)

3. Max Moves:
d) 40 for the regular season + 15 for the entire play-offs without per week restrictions

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)

6. Trade Review:
a) league vote

7. Trade Reject Time:
a) 2 days(current rule)

8. draft lottery based on:
b) end of season standings

9. draft lottery system:

a) current rule: everyone enters the lottery and
top 4 teams get 4 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 3 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 2 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 1 ping pong ball each

[TheTorontoGM]

Nice coup d'etat WB.... - that was quick.
I agree with KalElen's frustration on the activity and bogus offer issues. Lets hope with
the infusion of new blood and some renewed focus those will not be big problems this season.
I also prefer Dynasty.

VOTE:

1. b

2. b

3. a

4. a

5. a

6. a

7. a

8. b

9. a

[insfo]

VOTE

1. B (3 Bench Spots)

2. A (2 IL spots)

3. B (40 for the regular season + 4/4/5 in the play-offs). As someone suggested earlier, I would prefer the no move limit for the regular season and having restrictions for the playoffs only. In fact, it would be nice to lower it from 4/4/5 to 2/2/3 as well

4. B (Yahoo Can't cut list)

5. A (Yahoo trade end date)

6. A (Trade review by league vote)

7. A (2 days for trade rejections)

8. A (Draft lottery based on regular season standings)

9. A (Current lottery rule )

[writersblock]

well then it's official from now on you are the commish. good luck man and thank you for taking on the responsibility. i repeat if you need any help do not hesitate to ask

THanks, I'm fine taking over, but it makes more sense for transition to keep things as they are this year, and transfer next year. Here's what I propose:

1. Kal stays on as "lame duck"commish. We continue with the rules as they are.

2. Next season, I take over and we switch to Dynasty format--which is the main reason for doing this one more year. People have built their teams based on the 4 keepers strategy. They need time to rework their teams.

oh...and BTW, Kkranks' team is now mine.

[E-DUBB]

1. number of bench spots:
b) 3

2. il positions:
a) 2 il spots with no restrictions(current rule)

3. Max Moves:
a) 40 for the entire season(current rule)

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)

6. Trade Review:
a) league vote

7. Trade Reject Time:
a) 2 days(current rule)

8. draft lottery based on:
a) regular season standings

9. draft lottery system:
d) everyone enters the lottery with tank preventing distribution of chances (there is a software that does this quite easily, customize chances of winning the lottery that is):
1% chance – top 2
2% chance - next 2
3% chance - next 2
9% chance – next 6 (consolation participants)
10% chance – bottom 4

[fraanciiscoo]

1. number of bench spots:

b) 3


2. il positions:
a) 2 il spots with no restrictions(current rule)

3. Max Moves:
d) 40 for the regular season + 15 for the entire play-offs without per week restrictions

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)


6. Trade Review:
b) commish(current rule)

7. Trade Reject Time:
b) 3 days


8. draft lottery based on:
a) regular season standings


9. draft lottery system:

a) current rule: everyone enters the lottery and
top 4 teams get 4 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 3 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 2 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 1 ping pong ball each

[Curtis Lemansky]

Vote:

1. number of bench spots:
b) 3

2. il positions:
c) 1 il spot with no restrictions and seil

3. Max Moves:
d) 40 for the regular season + 15 for the entire play-offs without per week restrictions

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)

6. Trade Review:
b) commish(current rule)

7. Trade Reject Time:
a) 2 days(current rule)

8. draft lottery based on:
a) regular season standings

9. draft lottery system:
a) current rule: everyone enters the lottery and
top 4 teams get 4 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 3 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 2 ping pong balls each
next 4 teams get 1 ping pong ball each

Apart from these votes I have three points that I'd like to make:

-I'd be all for turning this into a dynasty league starting from the summer of 2009.
-I'd also suggest to consider expansion to 18 or 20 teams next summer.
-IMO random activity checks should be done in yahoo league message board after the league started(for example commish can start a thread named "activity check" and everybody can respond to it within 7 days so we can follow who is active and who isn't.)This way we can as a league decide,whether a gm should be replaced or not.

[AlciG]

Vote:

1. number of bench spots:
b) 3

2. il positions:
a) 2 il spots with no restrictions(current rule)

3. Max Moves:
a) 40 for the entire season(current rule)

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)

6. Trade Review:
a) league vote

7. Trade Reject Time:
a) 2 days(current rule)

8. draft lottery based on:
a) regular season standings

9. draft lottery system:
d) everyone enters the lottery with tank preventing distribution of chances (there is a software that does this quite easily, customize chances of winning the lottery that is):
1% chance – top 2
2% chance - next 2
3% chance - next 2
9% chance – next 6 (consolation participants)
10% chance – bottom 4


I like the dynasty idea, but it would have to start next year. Or perhaps we can go to like 8 keepers for the next year and all keepers the year after

[Young_Star11]

this is the official league vote. everyone is required to vote on all questions. those who don't do it within 7 days from now will be replaced

vote on

1. number of bench spots:
b) 3

2. il positions:
b) 1 il spot with no restrictions

3. Max Moves:
d) 40 for the regular season + 15 for the entire play-offs without per week restrictions

4. Can't Cut List:
b) yahoo default(current rule)

5. Trade End Date:
a) yahoo default(current rule)

6. Trade Review:
a) league vote

7. Trade Reject Time:
a) 2 days(current rule)

8. draft lottery based on:
a) regular season standings

9. draft lottery system:
d) everyone enters the lottery with tank preventing distribution of chances (there is a software that does this quite easily, customize chances of winning the lottery that is):
1% chance – top 2
2% chance - next 2
3% chance - next 2
9% chance – next 6 (consolation participants)
10% chance – bottom 4

[KalElen]

1. Kal stays on as "lame duck"commish. We continue with the rules as they are.

i guess i'm ok with being the commish for one year, though i would really like somebody else to do it, but if i stay as a commish i'm gonna have to insist on completion of the rule changes and voting. if we go to dynasty it will be the end of the rookie rule, but all other rules should remain. that means that i'd put up another vote in the 2nd half of august to serve as final check in before the draft and to have the league decide do we convert the league into a dynasty league (draft lottery will be done by that time so everyone would check in anyway to see their draft positions).

we switch to Dynasty format

speaking of dynasty league, i thought about it some more and realized that slow conversion i mentioned earlier isn't really necessary. it could be interesting to do it in stages, but we could just do it all at once as nostra and wb suggested to make things less complicated

I'd also suggest to consider expansion to 18 or 20 teams next summer

i'm against expansion for 2 reasons. first, expansion means we'll need to find 2-4 new active gms which is no easy task. second, with reducing roster size we are trying to improve fa pool but with expansion we'll be right back where we started

IMO random activity checks should be done in yahoo league message board after the league started

now this is idea that i like and plan to implement if i'm the commish when the league starts. i'll run 3 or 4 roll calls during the season where everyone will be required to post within a week and anyone who misses more then one roll call will get my vote be kicked out at the end of the season



i was thinking of starting the draft either at the begining or at the middle of september. any thoughts about that?