2012 Battle of Sports Forums

[sabonis]

also to add more incentive to hold the draft, in FFL for example everybody is on their own, here you represent a team, so if you somehow go MIA and then you are skipped by 10 picks (especially with HF missing 2 picks), that would be a devestating blow to the team.

[hailfire4]

im here

[hailfire4]

Sorry for the missed day. I had zero access to computer on Sunday. I would have sent a list on Saturday if I had known. Thanx for waiting and once again I apologize for any inconvenience. Now i gotta send an email to WB.

[writersblock]

If anyone wants this pick, I'm taking offers.

[dcdoorknob]

Eh I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but to me the fears of halfire suddenly just dropping off the face of the earth were overblown, and so the decision to not apply the rules as they have been laid out was also questionable.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but it was the weekend, sometimes people end up not being around computers much on weekends, even unexpectedly. Basically as it turns out he was able to take almost 24 hours for his picks but not get skipped, which was nice for him but was obviously not a courtesy that was extended earlier in this very draft. The argument that it could put his entire forum at a disadvantage, while also true, is also one that could have applied to the previous situation as well (especially given that it was the first round) except no one seemed compelled by that argument then.

Whatever though, I'll drop it, it's not a huge deal. Just wanted to say my piece.

[Redhopeful]

I understand Dc's concerns and wasn't really in favor of the temporary suspension either. However, no harm done so let's learn from this. Since half of this competition is team play, each forum should have contingency plans. IE. What you do when one guy goes missing. Allow picks by any other member, have all BOSF forum members hold vote or actually exchange phone numbers or other methods of communication.

Let's just say moving on, the draft will not be held up like this again. You make your pick or someone does on your behalf within the allotted time frame.

My concern is I can easily envision where someone could attempt to take advantage of the draft. Let's say manager X is the type who only logs in at times when making a post. Thus for appearance purposes, he may appear to have gone AWOL. He knows it is his pick but he is hesitating due to some impending NBA news so he attempts to play the "emergency card."

I really don't think something like this or something similar would happen but it's best to not even have to broach the subject.

[writersblock]

Eh I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but to me the fears of halfire suddenly just dropping off the face of the earth were overblown, and so the decision to not apply the rules as they have been laid out was also questionable.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but it was the weekend, sometimes people end up not being around computers much on weekends, even unexpectedly. Basically as it turns out he was able to take almost 24 hours for his picks but not get skipped, which was nice for him but was obviously not a courtesy that was extended earlier in this very draft. The argument that it could put his entire forum at a disadvantage, while also true, is also one that could have applied to the previous situation as well (especially given that it was the first round) except no one seemed compelled by that argument then.

Whatever though, I'll drop it, it's not a huge deal. Just wanted to say my piece.

+1

I do feel for HF, here, as it sucks to have no computer access, but I also think we may have just uncovered an unanticipated consequence of our 4 division split. If this were any other league, we would've been much more likely to skip him. But because the forums are now more of a team than ever, HF's forum felt the need to intervene. Of course, it's all water under the bridge now, and especially so because I had no intention whatsoever of picking either of the guys he chose, but we need to consider the precedent we set with this. We either have to be firm with the 12 hour pick rule, or we need to set out "special circumstances". I think the former is the better option.

[sabonis]

I think what u guys are telling is pretty logical, I totally understand. I but there is one thing that I've never understood, that is the end of the snake only gets 12 hours for their double pick, which greatly increases the damage they take by being skipped. Bu I think they should at least get 1.5 times the regular time.

[capoltorta]

Forgive me for saying this, and I'm honestly not being biased at all, but what's the big deal? The 12 hour time frame should just be a guideline, not written in stone. We're still two months away from the start of the season and we're well on our way, so we have plenty of time. For me, the punishment of losing your pick(s) is silly. Whether it was me, my forum-mate, or anyone else in the league, I don't want any kind of advantage over them, I want to win fair and square, so I hope everyone drafts the team they want in the draft spot they got, and let's really see who's the best. In this case, he had two picks, 12 hours each. He made both picks in 24 hours, so it's all good. If we had a week to go before the season, or he was gone for a week I could understand picking for him, but we got lots of time. We almost did, and as it turns out we were nowhere near who he wanted, so that would have sucked for everyone.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Forgive me for saying this, and I'm honestly not being biased at all, but what's the big deal? The 12 hour time frame should just be a guideline, not written in stone. We're still two months away from the start of the season and we're well on our way, so we have plenty of time.

The bold part left me befuddled. 12 hours per pick is not just a guideline, it is in fact written in stone. That's how offline drafts work. Simple as that.

For me, the punishment of losing your pick(s) is silly. Whether it was me, my forum-mate, or anyone else in the league, I don't want any kind of advantage over them, I want to win fair and square, so I hope everyone drafts the team they want in the draft spot they got, and let's really see who's the best.

Everyone wants to win fair and square and nobody was doing anything unfair. They were all going by the rules which is the right thing to do. Also I dont remember you saying anything when we skipped KB89 in the first round.

In this case, he had two picks, 12 hours each. He made both picks in 24 hours, so it's all good. If we had a week to go before the season, or he was gone for a week I could understand picking for him, but we got lots of time. We almost did, and as it turns out we were nowhere near who he wanted, so that would have sucked for everyone.

From the rules:

-12 hours per pick ( 12 hours in total for consecutive picks at the bottom and top of each round)

He had 12 hours in total for both picks. I can discuss at length why it is so but the fact of the matter is that it is in the rules and has been there since last year. If people want it to be changed for next season, we can discuss it then but for this draft, that's what we are going by.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Eh I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but to me the fears of halfire suddenly just dropping off the face of the earth were overblown, and so the decision to not apply the rules as they have been laid out was also questionable.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but it was the weekend, sometimes people end up not being around computers much on weekends, even unexpectedly. Basically as it turns out he was able to take almost 24 hours for his picks but not get skipped, which was nice for him but was obviously not a courtesy that was extended earlier in this very draft. The argument that it could put his entire forum at a disadvantage, while also true, is also one that could have applied to the previous situation as well (especially given that it was the first round) except no one seemed compelled by that argument then.

Whatever though, I'll drop it, it's not a huge deal. Just wanted to say my piece.

+1

I do feel for HF, here, as it sucks to have no computer access, but I also think we may have just uncovered an unanticipated consequence of our 4 division split. If this were any other league, we would've been much more likely to skip him. But because the forums are now more of a team than ever, HF's forum felt the need to intervene. Of course, it's all water under the bridge now, and especially so because I had no intention whatsoever of picking either of the guys he chose, but we need to consider the precedent we set with this. We either have to be firm with the 12 hour pick rule, or we need to set out "special circumstances". I think the former is the better option.

Before I decided to put the draft on hold, I checked last year's draft to see the draft speed of Hailfire and he was one of the quickest drafters who pushed everyone to send lists to keep the draft moving. Also I checked my email and found lots of lists from Hailfire in last year's draft plus I remember him being quite quick with his responses. So him not responding to emails was quite worrisome and unusual behavior by him as stated by his forum members. Given his history, he received the benefit of the doubt this time. If that happens again, then he wont get that for sure.

For the future, I think the right course of action is if a forum asks to put the draft on hold then it replaces the gm. Otherwise they should just let that gm get skipped until he makes his picks.

[writersblock]

For the future, I think the right course of action is if a forum asks to put the draft on hold then it replaces the gm. Otherwise they should just let that gm get skipped until he makes his picks.

I think this is a good proposal for a resolution.

[Redhopeful]

For the future, I think the right course of action is if a forum asks to put the draft on hold then it replaces the gm. Otherwise they should just let that gm get skipped until he makes his picks.

I think this is a good proposal for a resolution.

Kind of radical IMO. That said, as I stated before, it shouldn't even have to come to this. Not sure about the rest of you all, but the Cafe representatives are a good bond. We sort of know which direction everyone is leaning towards at almost every pick. Consequently, I'd feel more than comfortable letting one of them make a pick for me if circumstances would warrant it.

[dcdoorknob]

Sorry for delay, among other things I had a car battery die which put me out (away from computer) a bit longer than I was expecting.

seattle and I are trading:

I trade picks 4.7, 5.10, 9.10
seattle trades picks 4.12, 5.5, 9.5

[seattle]

Trade:

I receive: 4.7, 5.10, 9.10

DC receives: 4.12, 5.5, 9.5

Will go ahead and pick after dcdoorknob confirms.

Thank you.

[seattle]

Haha sorry. I confirm.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Updated.

For future trades, I'd appreciate if you can write down the actual pick numbers. Thanks.

[So-Tex]

First off, I want to thank Curtis for stepping in as Commish and making a tough, hard decision. As has been brought up by some of you, it can be debated whether it was the "right" decision, or even a "fair" decision...but at least he didn't waffle on it. He put his foot down firm. AND, he backed it up with his own research and insight. In other words, he didn't justify his decision with a simple cop-out excuse like "Because I say so!" or something like that. If he treats every forum with that same attitude and respect, then I'm confident of ANY ruling he might have to make in the future, EVEN if it's one which happens to go against my own forum or forum-mates.

Secondly, contrary to what some here might think, I agree almost 100% with the sentiments brought up by DC, writersblock, Red, and others. If this had happened to someone else, I could easily see myself in DC's or Red's shoes, saying the same exact things, easily. And although I'm not coming on here to argue my side, or any side for that matter, I just want those managers to know that I get it. And if anything, I'm appreciative of the fact that even though they feel the need to speak their peace, which is GOOD thing by the way, they're also willing to move on.

Trust me, I'm NOT the type to go looking for drama (although somehow, someway, it almost ALWAYS seems to find me! ). Yeah, I get emotional sometimes, or passionate about certain things (both Red and Rounders Block can attest for THAT, I'm sure! ), but the bottom line is I'm all about being straight up...fair and understanding. I DO feel that there should be consistency with rulings. And I DO feel that the rules ARE set in stone! They're posted at the very beginning, so there should be no surprises here.

Resolutions should be discussed, as they are being. I don't think we should go as far as saying in exchange for pausing the draft indefinitely, you HAVE to replace the offending manager...but I do agree that some type of league-wide contingency must be in place, if anything for future seasons. The simple answer is of course, 12 hours, then you're skipped. But because of how the nature of "teams" has changed in this league, I do feel we should be looking at something to deal with these types of situations.

Obviously, my first concern was hailfire himself - although I don't know him personally, or have never even met him in person, I DO know that was very unlike him not to even forward a list or something. So you begin to wonder, maybe he had an accident or something else serious like that Or, maybe it was something stupid like he just didn't pay the phone bill or something. Either way, when an active manager like hailfire goes missing like that, the concern is there - at least, on some kind of human level, regardless of how well you know him personally.

But second to that, I was worried about our team - not having those two picks there could easily mean the difference between finishing strong as a forum, or finishing weak. And THAT could mean the difference in our forum NOT returning next season. All gloves are off for the playoffs, no if's, and's, or but's about that! But the regular season goes a long way to determining if we get to come back to this league next year. We got lucky this year, and were invited back by default - but I want to EARN that invitation next year, plain and simple!

Hopefully, like Red and others have stated, this will be a lesson learned - get a plan in place amongst your forum-mates! And definitely communicate with each other! At least that way, we might even be able to completely avoid a situation like this one.

Again I apologize, at least for my contributions to this whole mess. Hopefully it won't sour anyone on playing in what looks to be a very interesting and exciting league this season. And I promise to: a) stop writing all these novels as posts! And b) not to be involved in any more soap operas!

[writersblock]

So-Tex no worries. In the end, it was pretty much a non-issue. No harm, no foul. But good to set out parameters if this happens again (which i doubt it will).

[sabonis]

is it just me or did Amare fell way too much? I had to check the draft list 3 or 4 times to make sure that I wasn't redrafting him.