FFKL 2007-08 [Winner: east!]

[fraanciiscoo]

fraanciiscoo

probable keepers
guys i might trade
guys i give for a bag of peanuts or less

Dirk Nowitzki
Vince Carter
Andrei Kirilenko
Raymond Felton
Rajon Rondo
Stephen Jackson
Raja Bell
Darko Milicic
Chris Kaman
Luke Ridnour
Mikki Moore
Kyle Lowry
Bobby Simmons
Desmond Mason
Earl Barron

send offers to fraanciiscoo @ hotmail.
com

[TheTorontoGM]

My email is
mshade17@hotmail.com

Welcome to bww, he is a great and active manager who will breath some life into this league.


Pau Gasol - potential keeper
Amare Stoudemire - potential keeper
Andre Iguodala - potential keeper
Leandro Barbosa - potential keeper
Andrea Bargnani
Monta Ellis - potential keeper
Richard Hamilton
Mike Dunleavy - potential keeper
Jason Kapono
Ryan Gomes
Carlos Delfino
Sean Williams - rookie keeper
Willie Green
Bonzi Wells
Shelden Williams

I am interested in doing a two(my) for one(yours) to upgrade my keepers. However has Chris Paul - trade him too me...

[Stanford]

Hello! My name is Coady and I will be matching witts with you all this year.

Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi!
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi

Now that that's out of the way, my email is Sixers_fan21@hotmail.com. Once again this year I'm keeping Billups, Butler, Manu and Marion.

I should let you all know that as the only sixer fan in this league, whoever has Brand has to trade him to me for nothing. Thanks and thanks.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Jason Terry
Maurice Evans-Bum
Mike Conley Jr.-Keeper
Brandan Wright
Al Harrington
Nene Hilario
Dwight Howard -Keeper
Andrew Bogut -Potential keeper
Javaris Crittenton
Devin Harris - Potential keeper
Nick Young
Andrew Bynum-Potential keeper
LeBron James -Keeper
Paul Millsap
Ben Gordon

My two keepers are set in stone;Bron and Howard.The other two will come from the group of Bynum,Bogut and Harris.My rookie keeper will be Conley Jr.

The rest can go.That involves Terry,Harrington and Gordon.Also I might move the package of Devin Harris+Andrew Bogut for a top-20 player.

I have three rookies to spare (Brandan Wright,Nick Young and Javaris Crittenton) so I can trade them pretty easily for little gains in draft positions.

My email is gokcemale@hotmail.com

[AlciG]

I'll be back

Info: AlciG.Realgm@gmail.com

[KalElen]

I should let you all know that as the only sixer fan in this league, whoever has Brand has to trade him to me for nothing. Thanks and thanks.

you are lucky that your thugs didn't go after j-smoove or you would be out of this league faster then you can say cake


btw i'm open to trading any of my rookies for modest draft position improvements:

Jamario Moon
Jeff Green
Daequan Cook
Rodney Stuckey
Julian Wright
Wilson Chandler

i'll even throw in Juan Carlos Navarro to sweeten the deal

[insfo]

insfo

david_ext@yahoo.com

Vets (Keepers=4, Available for trade=All)
Paul Pierce
Rudy Gay
Rasheed Wallace
Samuel Dalembert
Kirk Hinrich
Corey Maggette
Ricky Davis
Chris Wilcox
Travis Outlaw
Jamaal Tinsley
Travis Diener


Rooks (Keeper = 1, Available for trade = 3)
Spencer Hawes
Yi Jianlian
Acie Law
Marco Belinelli

[Woody Allen]

here are the teams, please check your teams to make sure i didn't miss anybody:

Woody Allen

Tim Duncan
Antawn Jamison
Allen Iverson
Andres Nocioni
J.R. Smith
Sam Cassell
Anthony Carter
Linas Kleiza
Eddie House
Roger Mason
Chris Quinn
Johan Petro
Shaquille O'Neal
Josh Powell

I also have Yao Ming, who was in the injured list at the end of the year. I release Eddie House to make room.

My email is cagatayerdem23 at yahoo dot com, by the way.

I suggest that we dump this thread and KalElen starts a new one so that he can edit the first post, thread title and such.

[KalElen]

i will start a new thread soon, but i'd like to suggest some rule changes first so we can discuss them here ad then start a new thread after we agree on final set of rules

btw league settings for last season:
Draft Type: Offline Draft
Draft Time: Mon Oct 1 2:07am CEST
Max Teams: 16
Scoring Type: Head-to-Head
Max Moves: 40
Max Trades: No maximum
Trade Reject Time: 2
Trade End Date: March 6, 2008
Waiver Time: 2 days
Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports
Trade Review: Commissioner
Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules
Weekly Deadline: Daily - Tomorrow
Start Scoring on: Week 1
Roster Positions: PG, SG, G, SF, PF, F, C, C, Util, Util, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN
Stat Categories: FG%, FT%, 3PTM, PTS, REB, AST, ST, BLK, TO

[KalElen]

we also had 2 il spots implemented manually

first i need to make clear that when i talk about inactivity i'm not talking about people not setting up their teams but about lack of trades being offered and going through (i checked, only -Ducky- stopped setting his team during the season and he is out). i think too many gms were content to set up their rosters maybe add a few fas and hope for the best. if you are in a public league just having everyone setting their rosters is a great success, but in a keeper league played by veterans this is not enough. keeper aspect of the league offers many possibilities and i don't see that people are trying to take advantage of those.

the way i see it, this league's activity level suffered because gms could get away with not paying too much attention to fa list since there were very few players who could hold long term value there. once the activity starts dropping you get less trade offers, less trades going through and less interest overall (we had just one trade whole season, and that one thanx to yours truly). this all happens because league is too deep, gms could stash all players with any upside on their benches, since they couldn't use all games during the week anyway, thus further reducing number of quality fas. this can either add a new dimension to strategies implemented or lead to inactiveness. playing deep league can be fun and challenging and i'm not against it in principle, but in this case it's clearly not the best solution. i know that this league took up significantly less of my time then some other leagues because i knew the chances of getting a trade done were slim and there was very little posting on the league board. i'm sure that was the case with most of you as well

so here are my suggestions which should increase activity:

1. i'm not sure if this was a requirement in 1st 2 years (i know we had to draft a rookie, but i can't remember if we had to keep them), but every gm is required to hold at least one rookie on their roster at every moment or to keep a roster spot, reserved for a rookie, empty (any player who didn't play a minute in an nba regular season game qualifies as a rookie, so yes oden qualifies as a rookie again)

2. this is the big one: we reduce rosters by 3 bn spots. this frees up 48 players for the fa pool thus improving it immensely. last 2 bench players could be used relatively rarely anyway, so only 3rd removed spot will have real impact on teams. 11 of remaining 12 roster spots can be used on any player in the league while 12th has to be either populated by a rookie or empty

3. every gm gets one regular il position (implemented manually by commish after a player misses 5 games, same as last season) that can be used at most 2 times during the season. every gm gets another il position that can be used only in case of season-ending injuries - seil. when player is placed on seil (after missing 5 games) he can't be activated until the end of the fantasy playoffs. players that are on either of il lists can't be carried over to next season so gms have to pick them up on the regular roster before real nba playoffs finish. any player who remains on either il list after that time will be considered free agent and available to be drafted come next draft day (yao owner pay attention to this )

4. Max Moves: 40, limitation counts only for regular season. in the playoffs every gm can make up to 4 add/drops during each of 1st 2 weeks and 5 add/drops during final week regardless of how many moves he made during the season. this means that Max Moves would have to be set to 53 in league settings.

5. Can't Cut List will be changed to none

6. Trade End Date will be set to last day of the 20th week

7. Trade Review will be changed to league vote
Trade Reject Time will be changed to 3

8. i’m not sure if this was allowed before, but using future unprotected or protected draft picks and draft considerations (a la bulls-knicks trade for eddie curry that landed the bulls 2nd pick) in trades will be allowed at any point in the season. commish will have to keep track of traded picks on the 1st page of league thread here

9. all teams will participate in draft lottery and have a chance to land top pick. lottery weights:
1% chance – finalists (2 gms)
2% chance - semifinalists (2 gms)
3% chance - quarterfinalists (2 gms)
9% chance – consolation participants (6 gms)
10% chance – rest (4 gms)

comment:
1st rule is there because it adds to complexity of the league and because it's kind of a trademark of this league since the beginning

5th 7th and 8th are pretty clear

6th is there to stimulate trading by giving people more time for it

4th rule should prevent streaming while allowing more moves during the season so gms can better use deeper fa pool

3rd is there because those 2 il spots should not be used on just any semi-usable player, but only to offer relief when significant players get injured. i was considering suggesting just one il spot, but decided to add seil as well because gms whose player goes down for a season need all the help they can get and this whole il business is intended to help them most of all

2nd finally the big one. this rule will improve fa pool and encourage gms to pay more attention to it and the league in whole. i won't insist on 3 spots if you feel it's too much we can go with 2, but i think it would be very interesting to see how it works out with just 2 bench spots

9th i believe that losing and tanking should not be rewarded, but lottery system is there to give losers and tankers greater chance of winning. in fantasy nba however everyone who doesn’t win is a loser, there are no financial rewards or any other incentives to console those who finish 7th or 8th over those who finish 15th or 16th so with suggested lottery weights i hope to discourage tankers while giving those who didn’t win a better chance at top pick. unlike real nba where bottom franchises keep all of their players and need help through draft to improve, we keep just 4 players. gm who finished 16th can easily have best group of 4+1 keepers so it makes no sense to just give him the top pick. top 6 teams are at disadvantage, but they are all fighting for the trophy and they still get to enter the lottery which is more then we allowed last season and more then real nba allows.

there you have it, all suggestions, questions and comments are more then welcome

[TheTorontoGM]

I like the changes - looks good. Thanks for the hard work.
Honestly I have been impressed with the perserverence of the GM's in this league. I thought it
was going to die a quick death two years ago..but everyne generally has stuck to their teams.
On a down note, I pretty much have stopped trading in most of my leagues because it has become too frustrating. I think most people view trades as a way to upgrade their roster via trying to rip their trading partner off.....so it seems almost impossible to make deals when people are constantly offering crap trades or expecting you too overpay in any offer.
For me trading is about catagory reshuffling, when you try to stregthen catagories you need for ones you don't...based on relatively equal value. Hardly ever happens though.

[Stanford]

Wow, great job!

1. i'm not sure if this was a requirement in 1st 2 years (i know we had to draft a rookie, but i can't remember if we had to keep them), but every gm is required to hold at least one rookie on their roster at every moment or to keep a roster spot, reserved for a rookie, empty (any player who didn't play a minute in an nba regular season game qualifies as a rookie, so yes oden qualifies as a rookie again)

Starting off, I don't like this idea. Some managers definetly bank on grabbing three or four rookies and trading them to those managers who didn't bother to keep one all year. I think all this rule does is 'punish' (in a way) those who have been smart enough to use that to their advantage, and reward those who haven't bothered to use the rookie keeper to theirs.

2. this is the big one: we reduce rosters by 3 bn spots. this frees up 48 players for the fa pool thus improving it immensely. last 2 bench players could be used relatively rarely anyway, so only 3rd removed spot will have real impact on teams. 11 of remaining 12 roster spots can be used on any player in the league while 12th has to be either populated by a rookie or empty

Agree 100%. This league has always had too many roster spots. I didn't want to mess with tradition last year, so kudos on bringing it up. My suggestion would be to lose the three bench spots but not impliment the rookie spot.

3. every gm gets one regular il position (implemented manually by commish after a player misses 5 games, same as last season) that can be used at most 2 times during the season. every gm gets another il position that can be used only in case of season-ending injuries - seil. when player is placed on seil (after missing 5 games) he can't be activated until the end of the fantasy playoffs. players that are on either of il lists can't be carried over to next season so gms have to pick them up on the regular roster before real nba playoffs finish. any player who remains on either il list after that time will be considered free agent and available to be drafted come next draft day (yao owner pay attention to this )

Hell, I have an even harsher suggestion; One Il spot for everyone! I had two last year because of FFDL, but I didnt take into account the differences between a keeper league and a dynasty league. So my suggestion would be to make it one Il spot only, but you can use it as many times as you want. I agree, it's all about increasing the FA pool. If you have two spots, one for a keeper thats out for a year, then you're free to stash any rookie or scrub on your Il for a while.

4. Max Moves: 40, limitation counts only for regular season. in the playoffs every gm can make up to 4 add/drops during each of 1st 2 weeks and 5 add/drops during final week regardless of how many moves he made during the season. this means that Max Moves would have to be set to 53 in league settings.

This is something the Commish (or all of us) have to keep an eye on. I don't really think regular season moves are that big of a deal. It's the playoffs we have to worrry about.

5. Can't Cut List will be changed to none

That was my fault last year.

6. Trade End Date will be set to last day of the 20th week

Works for me.

7. Trade Review will be changed to league vote
Trade Reject Time will be changed to 3

Again, my fault.

8. i’m not sure if this was allowed before, but using future unprotected or protected draft picks and draft considerations (a la bulls-knicks trade for eddie curry that landed the bulls 2nd pick) in trades will be allowed at any point in the season. commish will have to keep track of traded picks on the 1st page of league thread here

This was always allowed, but no one ever did it.

9. all teams will participate in draft lottery and have a chance to land top pick. lottery weights:
1% chance – finalists (2 gms)
2% chance - semifinalists (2 gms)
3% chance - quarterfinalists (2 gms)
9% chance – consolation participants (6 gms)
10% chance – rest (4 gms)

I like the way FFDL is set up, in that the lottery i only based on the regular season. In the playoffs, the best team doesn't always win, but they usually finish first or second in the regular season. Playoffs is often about luck, it really doesnt tell you about the quality of the managers roster.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Getting rid of 3 bench spots is brilliant.The rest of suggestions look very good as well.I'm torn with regards to rookie rule.For what it is worth,I'd suggest something like this: Investing into a rookie is really not very beneficial unless he is a sure fire stud like Durant.So it doesnt make a lot of sense to use a roster spor(even with 5 bench spots) for a rookie since the only benefit of the rookie is you will be allowed to keep him for one more year without using one of your protection.If we are going to make to hold a rookie all the time at the roster,how about to increase the benefits of holding him?Like instead of one year;you get to protect a rookie for two years without using your protection slots.So lets say you drafted someone like Yi Jianlian and at the end of this season you decided to protect him.That decision automatically enables you to protect him next off season(summer of 2009) as well.So the rookie you chose to protect at the end of his rookie season,can be protected at the end of 2nd season as well.(here is the catch,if you proctect Yi now and trade him during his second season,then his new team wont hold his rights to protect him) May sound complicated but the main idea is if we are going to force to hold onto a rookie for the entire year,lets put at least a little bit more benefits into a rookie.

[KalElen]

@Stanford

5th and 7th are technicalities. they aren't really too important

i will not insist on 1st rule, but if we don't have to keep a rookie on a roster at all time then it's pointless to be forced to draft him.

i wouldn't mind just one il spot, but i would like to have a restriction on number of times it can be used to avoid having guys like james jones on it ever again.

40 moves is enough most of the time, but not always, even if you don't stream, as i learned last season. i don't think it will be too difficult to keep track of those 4/5 moves per team come playoffs

also i have nothing against using regular season rankings in stead of end of season rankings as long as we keep 1/2/3/9/10 distribution. it changes very little (1 or 2 % among top 6 teams)

@TheTorontoGM

i know what you mean and i agree with you. i wrote a great article, if i may say so, on the subject for rotofreak. i was thinking about instituting some kind of punishment for repeat offenders, but that would probably dissimulate trading, not to mention that it could lead to animosity between gms involved.
another problem is that people rarely send any comments along with their offers. sometimes they don't even read comments sent to them
all i can do about that is to try to persuade everyone to send quality comments along with offers and hope that will prevent them from offering bad trades. we can even try to make comments a requirement within this league, but i'm not sure how that would work. and by quality comments i mean something better then: "crowford is equal to nash. wanna trade?" kind of staff

anyways you can always try to trade with me, i guarantee you won't get any ridiculous offers from me. maybe that's the best way, delete everyone who insults you with their offer from future trade partners list and just do business with others if possible

@nostradamus2005

i like your idea. that way you get to protect rookie for 2 years if you want to, but don't have to hold him more then one year if you don't want to. i guess having to hold rookie at all times when you have just 2 bn spots would be a little too much so adding another incentive might be the way to go. of course other solution would be to remove rookie requirement altogether and maybe just keep a rookie keeper as a reward for those who own them or even remove the rookie keeper too and play it as a straight 4 keepers league

[Stanford]

i will not insist on 1st rule, but if we don't have to keep a rookie on a roster at all time then it's pointless to be forced to draft him.

We're not forced to draft one. I didn't draft one last year

[Young_Star11]

I'm loving KalElen's suggested improvements

#1 - As been said before, the requirement should only be at the end of the season, not all the way through the season, IMO.

#2 - Fair enough. Players occupying the 13th-15th slots on a team were worthless anyway.

#3 - The extra IL spot for a season-ending injury is a good idea. And just one IL player makes it easier for administration too.

#4-#7 - I don't mind those minor tweaks.

#8 - Good idea. Adds more spice to the picks, but can stall negotiations.

#9 - We should just keep the lottery format as is, and only based on the regular season.

As for nostradamus' idea, I'd love it, as I am the Durant owner. Then again, if the rookie is that good, he'd be a 'regular' keeper anyway (as he would be with me). It's a good idea to increase protection of the rookies, but perhaps we could start it THIS season?

[sacstar16]

I'm going to be keeping only 1 or maybe 2 teams this year, but I've decided to stick with this league, especially after seeing the recent high level of activity.



As for the new rules, I'm liking most of them.
#1 and 2: I love the idea of taking away 3 bench spots but I'd rather it not be mandatory to have a rookie throughout the season or to have drafted one, especially with 3 less bench spots. I think it should only be necessary for managers to have a rookie by the end of the season.

#3: Great idea for the 2 IL spots. I like having one just for someone with a season ending injury.

#s 4 to 7: All are fine with me.

#8: Makes trading more interesting so I'm fine with it.

#9: I'd also prefer to have it based on regular season and not playoffs. I don't mind sticking with the current system though.



I'm going to be sending some trade offers soon. If anybody's interested in one of my rookies- both Scola and Brewer can be had. Send offers to SerbianxxxBallerxxx13xxx@aol.com. Take out the x's.

[sacstar16]

Oh and good work KalElen!

[KalElen]

bww78, you are officially member of the league as soon as you post your contact e-mail. please feel free to comment on proposed rule changes or anything else concerning the league.

i'm glad to see that you guys, mostly, like my suggestions. as soon as we get majority of members to report back i'll put all of them to vote.

now we need few more guys to report in. i'd like to ask all of you to contact any of them if you can so we can get this over with. Young_Star11, could you please send them pms asking them to report in

missing gms:
east
kkranks
E-DUBB
Rove
Chicken Soup

also i feel very strongly about rule no 9. i'm open to using regular season rank and slight modifications of percentages if you feel it's absolutely necessary, but i really think that the kind of lottery system i proposed is more fair and more efficient in preventing tanking then anything else we can come up with. i'd really like to hear why anyone, who is opposed to it, dislikes it. if majority of you are against it i'll respect that of course

[writersblock]

Sorry I'm responding so late...but if there's room in this league, I'd love to join up. Let me know. Here's my email address: squirrelzipper at yahoo dot com.