ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:40 pm
by JeepCSC
All-Time Non-Elite Tournament. Write-ups to follow.
Re: ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:01 pm
by Owly
Team Drafts Team Seed Pick Team Seed Pick RevisIsland 2 5 giordunk 15 6 Kevin Durant 1 5 Dwyane Wade 1 6 Gary Payton 2 28 John Stockton 2 27 Artis Gilmore 3 37 Nate Thurmond 3 38 Pau Gasol 4 60 Chris Webber 4 59 Kawhi Leonard 5 69 Carmelo Anthony 5 70 Paul George 6 92 Joakim Noah 6 91 Blake Griffin 7 101 Chuck Daly 7 102 Kyrie Irving 8 124 Shane Battier 8 123 Wes Unseld 9 133 Gerald Wallace - Actually Klay Thompson 9 134 Mike Budenholzer 10 156 Allen Iverson 10 155 Raja Bell 11 165 Gerald Wallace 11 166
General/for seeding write-ups 2 RevisIsland Artis Gilmore Pau Gasol Kevin Durant Kawhi Leonard Gary Payton
Wes Unseld Blake Griffin Paul George Raja Bell Kyrie Irving
Coach: Mike Budenholzer
Spoiler:
RevisIsland wrote:I don't plan to write an exhaustive post for seeding purposes. Here's a general outline:
G - Gary Payton (96-98) / Kyrie Irving (13-15) G - Kawhi Leonard (13-15) / Raja Bell (06-08) F - Kevin Durant (12-14) / Paul George (12-14) F - Blake Griffin (13-15) / Pau Gasol (09-11) C - Artis Gilmore (72-74) / Wes Unseld (76-78)
Coach Mike Budenholzer
Coach Budenholzer is a disciple of Greg Popovich and it shows in his coaching of the Atlanta Hawks. He has led a team with little star power that is 26th in the NBA in payroll to the number 1 seed in just his second year as Head Coach. The Hawks are an "extra pass", "dirty-work" team. They win through communication. Does anyone doubt that Bud would win championships if he was blessed with the same roster Scott Brooks has disappointed with?
I did not draft role-players. I absolutely believe that talent wins out in the end. I built this roster to capitalize on incredible length and athleticism without sacrificing skill and actual basketball ability. A 2/3 rotation of Durant/George/Leonard means that I either have 2 7-foot wings playing together at all times or one of them is paired with the most terrifying defensive wing since Scottie Pippen. Gary Payton is a 6'4 DPOY at point guard who guarded Michael Jordan in the Finals and held him to some of his worst playoff performances of his career. Artis Gilmore is a 7'2 monster in the middle who immediately transformed the Colonel's defense into the best in the ABA from his rookie year onward and is generally regarded as (aside from Wilt), the strongest man to play the game of basketball. He set ABA records for blocks and rebounds and won MVP as a rookie over prime Julius Erving. Raja Bell is an All-NBA defensive player off the bench. Wes Unseld is one of the greatest rebounders ever. Pau Gasol was a very good defender with the Lakers in his prime. My defense IS elite. I was, however, able to select very good defensive players who don't give up anything on offense. I have no players like Rodman or Ben Wallace. There is no one on my roster that is one-dimensional, but there are players on both sides of the ball that are game-changers.
My offense clearly runs through Kevin Durant. It's arguable that his 2014 MVP season is the greatest scoring season ever. He's unstoppable. There is no defender that can mitigate what he brings offensively. I can line him up as a 2-guard and laugh as a he shoots over the top of any 6'7 SG that is tasked with "defending" him. Between Irving, Bell, George, Leonard and Durant, I have 5 players that are capable of shooting the ball at a very high level and 2 of them will be on the court at all times. Add to that the fact that Gasol and Griffin are both very good midrange shooters, my spacing will be excellent. At all times, I will have 3-4 players capable of creating their own shot, unnasisted, on the floor. There is no one you can ignore on my offense. The center in my offense is primarily tasked with setting hard picks and rolling to the basket. They are there for dirty work. Offensive rebounds and putbacks. It's good that I have two of the strongest, hardest-working 5's in basketball history. Listen to any of their peers speak about Gilmore or Unseld and you will first hear about their strength and how they physically beat you up during the course of the game. Gasol, Griffin and Unseld are all phenomenal passers. The ball will not stop when passed to a post player. However, if left one on one, Griffin and Gasol will take their man to the basket. Kyrie Irving is on this team to be a shot in the arm off the bench. He will come in and play limited minutes, typically with Durant sitting, and be asked to simply score the basketball. My favorite aspect of my team is their ability in transition. Watch a couple of videos of Payton and Kemp in transition, then imagine that with a superior player in Blake Griffin. Now imagine that with a famous Wes Unseld outlet pass. Now add the length and speed of Kawhi Leonard or Paul George. Now add the scoring prowess of Kevin Durant. No one is stopping an Unseld -> Payton -> Durant/Griffin/Leronard/George break.
15 giordunk Nate Thurmond Chris Webber Carmelo Anthony Dwyane Wade John Stockton
Joakim Noah Gerald Wallace Shane Battier Klay Thompson Allen Iverson
Coach: Chuck Daly ???
Posted: Sat May 2, 2015 9:33 pm
by RevisIsland
I didn't know this was happening. I actually forgot about it. I'll make a quick post when I can today.
Re: ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Sun May 3, 2015 4:09 am
by trex_8063
It's all there in RevisIsland's write-up; I can't remember if his was one of the squads I'd previously singled out as pretty impressive, but this is indeed a very formidable team.
Between Payton leading the break, Griffin, Irving, and Durant running and finishing, and Unseld (arguably the GOAT outlet passer, imo), not to mention the defensive rebounding and shot blocking he'll have with Gilmore/Unseld et al......he is going to have a nice transition team. Payton and/or Irving should be able to get some decent penetration off of Unseld's screens (also the GOAT screen-setter, imo), which will work well with Durant, Irving, Bell, George, and Leonard spreading the floor. He's got bigs who can score in the post or hit from the mid-range in Gasol and Griffin, both of whom are also elite passing bigs who can be on the look-out for Durant.
A line-up of Gilmore or Unseld at C, Gasol or Griffin at PF, George or Durant (especially Durant) at SF, and Leonard and Payton in the back-court is going to be insanely dominant on the boards, not to mention wickedly good on defense, especially whenever Gilmore is in the game.
Meanwhile, giordunk's squad is arguably a touch redundant in scorers (particularly perimeter scorers). He has very little post scoring (Webber's his only scoring big, and he's got a tendency to play and shoot from the outside a bit too much), and has multiple guys who lean toward discontent if they don't get a lot of shots (Iverson, Webber, Melo; even Wade may get frustrated with not getting enough shots next to these guys, if only because he is very clearly the best scorer of the lot); and none of them except for Wade is a particularly good efficiency scorer. I see Iverson creating drama for having to come off the bench, too.
I think his starting line-up would actually be better for having Battier in as an elite 3 n' D role player, instead of Melo and the utter volume-shooting overkill he provides in this line-up. But even putting Melo with the 2nd unit will leave the 2nd unit sort of heavy on volume-shooting, defensively weak perimeter players (Melo and Iverson). Maybe giordunk had some remedies in mind, but he never did do a write-up, so....
Ultimately, I don't think it really matters, though. His team is just out-matched by RevisIsland's, imo..... *Although giordunk should have some very good rebounding, RevisIsland has even better, imo. **Maybe Stockton can help Webber realize his offensive potential, but that's a big maybe. ***Unless maybe giordunk intends to play Klay Thompson big minutes (not sure why he would when he's got Wade, and Thompson playing the SF is going to compromise his team's rebounding a bit), RI has the better outside shooting. ****RI has a better 4th and 5th option scorer (as well as the best #1 option scorer in Durant). *****Defensively RI's team looks stronger; he just doesn't have the defensive holes in the line-up that will almost invariably exist in any line-up giordunk floors.
Vote: Team RevisIsland.
Re: ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Sat May 9, 2015 9:16 pm
by Owly
I could copy and paste a lot of stuff from 1-16 thread.
Giordunk is absent (and has been since the draft so hasn't even a general writeup) and his team is one of the weakest on paper/by the numbers (in fact I think by the numbers, the worst). There's no post scoring and both (presumed) starting big men are fairly inefficient. Overall the offense doesn't look like it will be too efficient (the only notably efficient shooters, Stockton and Thompson, wouldn't be expected to take a lot of shots, Wade certainly isn't bad in this area, but given the elite competition, he's not notably good). Nor is it a great team on the boards (Thurmond of course an exception, Webber solid, but not that good at this competition level, Noah good and then little else). On the plus side with peak Stockton, Wade, Webber and Noah there's some superb passers and so I would think this is one of the very best teams in terms of a collection of passing talent though this might be slightly diminished by a lack of a clear offensive vision. Carmelo isn't ideal for these leagues because he's an iso scorer and whilst that has some value fairly lackluster D and no other outstanding attributes and the fact he's playing with another, better, wing scorer (Wade) plus others who should have the ball in their hands, are better passers, demand more shots or some combination of the above and it doesn't look great for him (even on the second unit, he's playing with Iverson as the pg, and whilst they played well together in Denver, Iverson was not the point guard there.
Revis has one of the stronger teams by the numbers and whilst his year selection for Unseld was a surprise (his first three years would have been my selection; the chosen span selected includes a clear down year, plus injuries had clearly diminished his mobility from earlier years and whilst he was still a good pro some questioned his dedication to the game at this point) it is hard to find much otherwise to fault (being super picky I guess maybe D at the PF spot? Bell very dependent on an elite PG to create shots for him? Irving's D? Kawahi more of a 3 than a 2? Budenholzer only has a small sample to judge on?). One might quibble with minor aspects of Revis' general write-up (Blake "very good" from mid-range, especially earlier in the span? Pau a "very good" defender?), but in general he sells his team well (very good rebounding, good athletes, good D all recognised and correctly imo, therefore given the above in concert pitching in particular on fast break potential; good shooting noted too) and I think the team offers a very serious contender (particularly so based on his "first 5", his initial 5 picks and I assume starting lineup, as it was in the general writeup).
vote: RevisIsland
Re: ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:55 am
by trex_8063
Thru post #5:
RevisIsland (2) - trex_8063, Owly
giordunk (0)
Re: ATNE Tournament, Round 1: 2. RevisIsland v. 15. giordunk
Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:06 am
by giordunk
My vision for this team is obviously a ton of passing and looking for the open shot. I have guys like Stockton, Wade, Webber, and Noah as facilitators from all spots on the floor, and my primary options are guys with a high points per touch - Melo or Klay are constantly moving getting themselves open (think Melo Team USA) and I have 3 guys who can be considered some of the best passers at their position ever. By that logic when Battier is in for defense he would also be part of this offense when he spots up from the corner.
Carmelo is one of the few proven players where even in a roster of immensely talented players (Team USA, and in this case, this fantasy draft) it makes sense for him to be a first scoring option. Carmelo is way too talented to play off ball in the NBA, but in a situation like this where teams are stacked with talent, playing Melo off ball is a dream. In an offense only world Carmelo would be one of the top players ever, but issues like maturity and poor teammate chemistry have really cost him playoff opportunities.
Prime Wade (we're talking 06 playoff mode) has the highest peak of anyone on my team IMO and would act as the hero, ISO bailout guy.