OT: Djokovic one match away from Calendar Grand Slam

[HEKTOR]

Thank you, DCasey, someone who actually knows the sport. Djokovic's dominance started in 2011 when he was 23-24yrs old. Federer was 29/30 at the time while Nadal was 24-25yrs old.

It's a problem when someone is so dominant that others simply conclude that it was a 'weak' era - meanwhile Djokovic's path to 20 GS titles was much more difficult than Federer's while more comparable to Rafa's, although Rafa's has mainly been because of his god-like form at the French.

Out of the 14 GS finals against Fed and Rafa combined, Nole is 8-6 (4-1 vs Fed, the 1 loss coming in 07' and 4-6 vs Rafa)

Djokovic has accomplished more than his 2 greatest rivals (Fed+Rafa) with the toughest path and with the most obstacles. It's truly been against all odds.

[DCasey91]

All this really does it points out that tennis has gotten crazy top heavy and would indicate that the quality has dropped. The fact a 40 year old Fed is still even able to play at a pro level, let alone be a top 20 player is even more damning.

That said I don't watch tennis enough anymore to feel confident, but anytime you see 3 "GOAT" level guys all playing at one time, the most logical first thought is that the relative talent has fallen off a cliff.

Federer is pretty good...would certainly be a highly ranked player in any era. Him being middle aged just means he's not #1 anymore.

He is good vs his peers, but I don't think we've discovered a cure for aging. Him still being a top 10 player certainly gives me pause with the overall level of talent today 30-10.

Look at whose won the ATP finals titles and the history of it. Stacked is an understatement. It’s one of the most prestigious events in tennis.

Look at the last 4 won (Dim, Zver, Tsitsi, Med).
There isn’t a pause. Those that pause can’t see what’s coming through.

It’s just that Nadal and Djokovic are GOAT gatekeepers. 2/4 slams are gone each year and fit both are still heavily favored but the turning point happens quick like with all sports.

The pedigree and evidence is very much A okay.

It’s irony questioning the comp vs’s Fed’s comp at his peak powers when he was under 30 years of age.

Nadal and Djokovic are post prime for years now.

Why would Fed be even a top 5 threat?.

I think some people are being too harsh. Med is looking like a top top talent for years to come.

2020 ATP finals win
2021 AO Finals, RG QF, WB 4th rnd, US win

Yeah nah people don’t get it.

[HEKTOR]

It’s irony questioning the comp vs’s Fed’s comp at his peak powers when he was under 30 years of age.

Nadal and Djokovic are post prime for years now.

Where do you see the big-3 in terms of GS titles when its all said and done?

I'll predict:

Djokovic - 23
Nadal - 21
Federer - 20

[DCasey91]

the fact that people call this a weak era just shows how dominant Djokovic is, as he is the almost sole reason those great youngish players haven't won almost anything yet. That's what happens when you play in the era of the GOAT, just like with Jordan's Bulls

Med has been on one for the best part of two seasons.


.... that’s top shelf stuff.

Rev won gold recently

Med going bananas in 2020 and 2021

Tsitsi is the youngest and possibly the second most talented one

Rub has 8 titles already (3 QF’s, 10 wins over top ten players)

Future is very bright!

Nadal and Djokovic have the lock on 2/4 slams that’s why when fit. But age is fast approaching

[DCasey91]

Legendary choke job with no competition

Med

2020 - 2021
Multiple Masters title
ATP finals title
AO Finals
RG QF
WIM 4th rnd
US Win

Go back to watching NBA.

[DCasey91]

It’s irony questioning the comp vs’s Fed’s comp at his peak powers when he was under 30 years of age.

Nadal and Djokovic are post prime for years now.

Where do you see the big-3 in terms of GS titles when its all said and done?

I'll predict:

Djokovic - 23
Nadal - 21
Federer - 20

I’d say that is a pretty good estimate. Though Nadal might win another 2 at RG because if he’s fit he’s still the biggest threat bar none.

Med has well and truly hit his stride, Pas will be 25 ish, and Rub/Zver same deal that’s five that’s going to spend a lot of time in the top ten and hitting their full stride imo.

I can see Med, Pas and Zver being multiple slam winners.

[Woodsanity]

Legendary choke job with no competition

Med

2020 - 2021
Multiple Masters title
ATP finals title
AO Finals
RG QF
WIM 4th rnd
US Win

Go back to watching NBA.

3 Setted by a decent player in a weak era. Yawn.

Maybe DJoker is coming close to being done like Nadal and Federer. Going to be boring tennis from now on if Med is the best the tennis world has.

[DCasey91]

Guys 2016..... none of the big three was number one.

Fed’s best season after his prime was 2017 lol

Wawrinka wasn’t even number one either and decided to go bananas in three seasons winning 3 slams and punching GOATS in the mouth even with bad WL records (duh every player just about has a bad record vs the trio). He has a unique distinction of beating a one and two seed (Raf and the joker) twice in two runs for two of his three slam wins.

I mean anyone that’s watched tennis from 2009ish onwards knows what is what when it comes to comp.

[DCasey91]

Legendary choke job with no competition

Med

2020 - 2021
Multiple Masters title
ATP finals title
AO Finals
RG QF
WIM 4th rnd
US Win

Go back to watching NBA.

3 Setted by a decent player in a weak era. Yawn.

Maybe DJoker is coming close to being done like Nadal and Federer. Going to be boring tennis from now on if Med is the best the tennis world has.

Decent? Okay drink the cool aid. Don’t watch it then. Weren’t a fan to begin with I bet

[Bergmaniac]

It’s revisionist now but you can’t dispute tennis metrics. It’s an inarguable sport

Tell that to the posters who have spent countless hours discussing who's GOAT on every tennis board, LOL.

The "weaker era" talk will always be extremely subjective no matter how much stats you come up with.

Fed’s best season and Djokovic’s season isn’t comparable.

Top ten vs top ten it isn’t even close.

Fed’s top ten average age was 24! He was 100% WR not vsing Nadal. He beat on younger less talented and accomplished players. That is a fact.

Djokovic has a historic WL vs the deepest and stacked top ten record in his best season. War path Wawrinka was the only thing that stopped the greatest modern season ever.

People here don’t want to actually look at it because of how far apart the comp peers are.

Biggest fact is this. The Djokovic/Nadal/Murray/Wawrinka and Comeback Fed period (2010-2017) has the most parity in wins and the deepest ten and it isn’t even close at all.

That top ten destroys the comp of early Fed when he won the majority of his slams. He had 4 debut in the top ten in his best winning season lol. 2.4 all up

Djokovic?..... The whole top ten had multiple years of being there at an huge average of 6.9!

Again, most of this is completely subjective. A top 10 isn't necessary stronger just because the average age is higher and they've been there for longer on average.

[DCasey91]

Tell that to the posters who have spent countless hours discussing who's GOAT on every tennis board, LOL.

The "weaker era" talk will always be extremely subjective no matter how much stats you come up with.

Fed’s best season and Djokovic’s season isn’t comparable.

Top ten vs top ten it isn’t even close.

Fed’s top ten average age was 24! He was 100% WR not vsing Nadal. He beat on younger less talented and accomplished players. That is a fact.

Djokovic has a historic WL vs the deepest and stacked top ten record in his best season. War path Wawrinka was the only thing that stopped the greatest modern season ever.

People here don’t want to actually look at it because of how far apart the comp peers are.

Biggest fact is this. The Djokovic/Nadal/Murray/Wawrinka and Comeback Fed period (2010-2017) has the most parity in wins and the deepest ten and it isn’t even close at all.

That top ten destroys the comp of early Fed when he won the majority of his slams. He had 4 debut in the top ten in his best winning season lol. 2.4 all up

Djokovic?..... The whole top ten had multiple years of being there at an huge average of 6.9!

Again, most of this is completely subjective. A top 10 isn't necessary stronger just because the average age is higher and they've been there for longer on average.

It’s completely objective. Sorry to tell you mate

Look if you sub out Peak Fed/young Nadal in 06 and sub out Fed/Nadal and Djokovic in 2015 the top ten beats Fed Prime’s top ten easily. And that’s with one less extra player lmao. 8 vs 7

2010-2017 was well seasoned with perennial top ten players. I mean Murray gets forgotten but he spent a decade in there and was World Number one ffs.

You want something funny?

Do the same experiment in 2021 when people are questioning “weak” era.

Peak Fed gets 8 players and 2021 gets 7 (Fed/Nadal/Joker out) mind you this isn’t peak Nadal or peak Djokovic to play this year against the top ten.

Guess what? 2021 has more Slam wins.

Fact is Djokovic played in the hardest era of modern tennis and it’s not even close to being close.

He also versed the trio the most and leads in all important metrics.

Now it’s not hard to imagine at all (alluded to earlier about but not many people likes facts) but what if Peak Djokovic or Peak Nadal for that matter vsed each other less and vsed less accomplished players? I don’t know they might have even more incredible GOAT level resume don’t you think?

Heck 2015 Djokovic his median average vs was rank 20 in every match!

2006 for Peak Fed? 36

Djokovic also had double the number of wins vs top 5 opponents.

I mean if you want to actually see the top ten in 2006 vs 2015 sure. Buts it’s not pretty

[guille_4]

Thank you, DCasey, someone who actually knows the sport. Djokovic's dominance started in 2011 when he was 23-24yrs old. Federer was 29/30 at the time while Nadal was 24-25yrs old.

It's a problem when someone is so dominant that others simply conclude that it was a 'weak' era - meanwhile Djokovic's path to 20 GS titles was much more difficult than Federer's while more comparable to Rafa's, although Rafa's has mainly been because of his god-like form at the French.

Out of the 14 GS finals against Fed and Rafa combined, Nole is 8-6 (4-1 vs Fed, the 1 loss coming in 07' and 4-6 vs Rafa)

Djokovic has accomplished more than his 2 greatest rivals (Fed+Rafa) with the toughest path and with the most obstacles. It's truly been against all odds.

If you compare Federer's competition in his earlier years with Djokovic's competition in the last few years, Djokovic's has definitely been weaker.

Competition has been WEAK between 2014 and 2020. That's a fact. The level of players born between 1988 and 1995 is terribly weak (Thiem is the only decent player), which has helped Djokovic be even more dominant than the player he's been. Just look at the top-15 players at the moment,10 of them are 8 years younger than Djokovic or younger. There's a huge talent gap. Had Zverev, Medvedev or Tsitsipas been born earlier, this would be a pretty different story.

That plus Nadal, Federer and Murray's injuries has made his accolades even more dominant than he deserves.

Kudos for longevity though.

[DCasey91]

Thank you, DCasey, someone who actually knows the sport. Djokovic's dominance started in 2011 when he was 23-24yrs old. Federer was 29/30 at the time while Nadal was 24-25yrs old.

It's a problem when someone is so dominant that others simply conclude that it was a 'weak' era - meanwhile Djokovic's path to 20 GS titles was much more difficult than Federer's while more comparable to Rafa's, although Rafa's has mainly been because of his god-like form at the French.

Out of the 14 GS finals against Fed and Rafa combined, Nole is 8-6 (4-1 vs Fed, the 1 loss coming in 07' and 4-6 vs Rafa)

Djokovic has accomplished more than his 2 greatest rivals (Fed+Rafa) with the toughest path and with the most obstacles. It's truly been against all odds.

If you compare Federer's competition in his earlier years with Djokovic's competition in the last few years, Djokovic's has definitely been weaker.

Competition has been WEAK between 2014 and 2020. That's a fact. The level of players born between 1988 and 1995 is terribly weak (Thiem is the only decent player), which has helped Djokovic be even more dominant than the player he's been. Just look at the top-15 players at the moment,10 of them are 8 years younger than Djokovic or younger. There's a huge talent gap. Had Zverev, Medvedev or Tsitsipas been born earlier, this would be a pretty different story.

That plus Nadal, Federer and Murray's injuries has made his accolades even more dominant than he deserves.

Kudos for longevity though.

2016 Murray was world number one
2015 That top ten smokes Fed’s 2006 it’s like comparing babies to heavy hitters.

Also the most parity and most heavy comp not close.

It’s more like 2019ish what one year? Gtfo

In fact 2021 the top ten has more slam wins if you sub out Fed/Nadal 06 and Nadal/Fed/Djokovic so 8 vs 7 players.

Stop making up lies it’s stupid.

Thiem is the only decent player?

Also why does everyone think this is Djokovic’s prime?

[guille_4]

Thank you, DCasey, someone who actually knows the sport. Djokovic's dominance started in 2011 when he was 23-24yrs old. Federer was 29/30 at the time while Nadal was 24-25yrs old.

It's a problem when someone is so dominant that others simply conclude that it was a 'weak' era - meanwhile Djokovic's path to 20 GS titles was much more difficult than Federer's while more comparable to Rafa's, although Rafa's has mainly been because of his god-like form at the French.

Out of the 14 GS finals against Fed and Rafa combined, Nole is 8-6 (4-1 vs Fed, the 1 loss coming in 07' and 4-6 vs Rafa)

Djokovic has accomplished more than his 2 greatest rivals (Fed+Rafa) with the toughest path and with the most obstacles. It's truly been against all odds.

If you compare Federer's competition in his earlier years with Djokovic's competition in the last few years, Djokovic's has definitely been weaker.

Competition has been WEAK between 2014 and 2020. That's a fact. The level of players born between 1988 and 1995 is terribly weak (Thiem is the only decent player), which has helped Djokovic be even more dominant than the player he's been. Just look at the top-15 players at the moment,10 of them are 8 years younger than Djokovic or younger. There's a huge talent gap. Had Zverev, Medvedev or Tsitsipas been born earlier, this would be a pretty different story.

That plus Nadal, Federer and Murray's injuries has made his accolades even more dominant than he deserves.

Kudos for longevity though.

2016 Murray was world number one
2015 That top ten smokes Fed’s 2006 it’s like comparing babies to heavy hitters.

Also the most parity and most heavy comp not close.

It’s more like 2019ish what one year? Gtfo

In fact 2021 the top ten has more slam wins if you sub out Fed/Nadal 06 and Nadal/Fed/Djokovic so 8 vs 7 players.

Stop making up lies it’s stupid.

Thiem is the only decent player?

Also why does everyone think this is Djokovic’s prime?

9 out of his 20 GS have been between 2017 and 2020. In those years, Federer, Nadal and Murray have had issues with injuries. In those years, there wasn't one single great player 1 to 7 years younger than Djokovic. What's so hard to understand? If Medvedev, Tsitsipas or Zverev were 5 years older, they'd now be in their prime and Djokovic wouldn't have won 3 GS's this year.

I don't think that's that difficult to understand.

Lies? What lies?

Can you at least agree with the fact that he wasn't faced with good competition from younger players within his generation? Can you name any GS-winner tier players born between 1988 and 1995?

I consider Djokovic a top-3 player in the 21st century with Federer and Nadal, but I think his titles are affected by lack of competition. If it wasn't for the above, he'd probably have 3 or 4 less GS's than Federer and Nadal.

Given the favorable H2H with Nadal (30 vs. 28) and Federer (27 vs. 23), more GS and Master 1000 titles and weeks as number 1 (including COVID-19 weeks), he'll be considered the GOAT when he retires. He isn't my GOAT.

[Doctor MJ]

The more I read the threads, the more I see a more accurate comparison for who is the GOAT should be on Nadal and Djokovic. Not Federer.

Okay, so some thing:

People who focus on head-to-head comparisons tend to forget that the goal is to get as far as you can as often as you can, and Federer continues to have the edge over Djokovic, and will likely always have the edge over Nadal on this front.

Additionally, people who focus on head-to-head tends to over Nadal because he was so likely to get upset early if he wasn't on clay.

And people who go by counting slams without thinking about actual playing capability tend to overrate Nadal because his clay advantage allowed him to win so much there.

Then there's the matter that old man Federer actually did figure Nadal out. It wasn't enough to keep Nadal from winning the overall head-to-head battle, but the notion that all things being equal, Nadal would always win, is misguided. Federer was slow to make the changes he needed to to match up with Nadal because it was working so well against everyone else (Djokovic included), and while that hurts his legacy - it's the reason why he only won 20 slams - we know enough to know that there was nothing fundamentally that kept Federer from having an edge against non-clay Nadal, and when you add that to the fact that he was the more consistent slam performer, that's no small thing.

So all this to say, I have Federer fairly easily ahead of Nadal, and it's going to take considerably more than Nadal just hitting 21 to top him.

Djokovic on the other hand, after he figured out how to get past his rivals, he never really looked back. He had down times along the way, but in general, he seemed to have the upper hand against Nadal everywhere but on clay and against Federer everywhere but on slick grass (take Federer after rain or lawn that isn't chewed up, but that's it).

For this reason I think Djokovic has a great case over Federer already, and it's really just a question of whether he's already done enough to end the argument. A Calendar Slam would have been the perfect clincher, but as is, still debatable in my mind even though I think Djokovic has the peak edge.

One other thing: People here are saying weird things about weak eras.

I'll say right from the start that that time where you had the Big 4 (Fed, Rafa, Nole, Murray) going was THE golden era of men's tennis. There's never been a time better than that in terms of quality of play from elite players.

Federer being the oldest of the bunch did dominate in a slightly less competitive era...but that also meant that in the absolute peak era, he was at an age disadvantage the whole damn time. Tennis players' career arcs are not symmetrical parabolas, and much of the time Nadal/Djokovic spent above Federer was time that in old eras Federer would have already been retired.

In the end, I do tend to give Djokovic the edge because I think that overall he was slightly stronger due to his length, flexibility and deep-match mental toughness, but no one should dismiss Federer's incredible run of accomplishment, and no one should forget that Federer was better at hitting the tennis ball than anyone else before or since. (Note: "deep match mental toughness" has to do with how you do in a 5-setter as your body breaks down, and it's not the same thing as bringing your A-game every day and not crumbling early in a match when things don't go your way.)

And for that matter, this Big 3 (Fed, Rafa, Nole) is the clear cut Top 3 in history and we may never see anything like it again. All these guys deserve praise above all else, and Murray does too along with sympathy.

[DCasey91]

Let’s just go by slams not even accounting for prestigious awards (Masters, ATP finals, ATP titles)

Between 2003 and 2008 no one won more than one Slam title outside of Nadal/Fed. Fact

Federer to get to 20 from his first 03 to his last 2018. (15)
Nadal from his first 2005 to his last 2020 (15) 20
Djokovic from his first 2008 to his last currently 2021 (13) 20.

From 08 - 2021 Multi Slam wins:

Djokovic - 20
Nadal - 17
Federer - 8
Murray - 3 (9 Finals, World number one in the midst of it all and a gold medal lol)
Wawrinka - 3
Fact.

Don’t even want to bring up the top ten vs top ten either prime vs prime. Seasoned winners and seasoned top ten players year after year after year.

2009-2019 was goat period for men’s tennis and frankly world sports and it’s not close.

You want parity well there it is. I’m not even including singular slam winners either.

People do have to know in 06 vs 21 the top ten minus Fed/Nadal and minus Djokovic/Nadal/Fed has more Slam wins and Prime Fed gets an extra top ten player....... and that’s Old Djokovic and old Nadal with a cancelled slam tournament.... and that’s primetime FedEx Express.

I mean what more do you want?

It’ll be even more funny to me and egg in peoples faces here if:

Tsisti, Med, Theim, Zver, Dim, Rublev all become multi slam winners/multi slam finalists, slam winners and spend year after year in the top ten. 4 have ATP Finals wins each ffs, 2 slams, a gold medal and more to come...

I mean Ivan never made Slam final and Nalbandian only once a finalist...

Now that would be funny asf!

[DCasey91]

If you compare Federer's competition in his earlier years with Djokovic's competition in the last few years, Djokovic's has definitely been weaker.

Competition has been WEAK between 2014 and 2020. That's a fact. The level of players born between 1988 and 1995 is terribly weak (Thiem is the only decent player), which has helped Djokovic be even more dominant than the player he's been. Just look at the top-15 players at the moment,10 of them are 8 years younger than Djokovic or younger. There's a huge talent gap. Had Zverev, Medvedev or Tsitsipas been born earlier, this would be a pretty different story.

That plus Nadal, Federer and Murray's injuries has made his accolades even more dominant than he deserves.

Kudos for longevity though.

2016 Murray was world number one
2015 That top ten smokes Fed’s 2006 it’s like comparing babies to heavy hitters.

Also the most parity and most heavy comp not close.

It’s more like 2019ish what one year? Gtfo

In fact 2021 the top ten has more slam wins if you sub out Fed/Nadal 06 and Nadal/Fed/Djokovic so 8 vs 7 players.

Stop making up lies it’s stupid.

Thiem is the only decent player?

Also why does everyone think this is Djokovic’s prime?

9 out of his 20 GS have been between 2017 and 2020. In those years, Federer, Nadal and Murray have had issues with injuries. In those years, there wasn't one single great player 1 to 7 years younger than Djokovic. What's so hard to understand? If Medvedev, Tsitsipas or Zverev were 5 years older, they'd now be in their prime and Djokovic wouldn't have won 3 GS's this year.

I don't think that's that difficult to understand.

Lies? What lies?

Can you at least agree with the fact that he wasn't faced with good competition from younger players within his generation? Can you name any GS-winner tier players born between 1988 and 1995?

I consider Djokovic a top-3 player in the 21st century with Federer and Nadal, but I think his titles are affected by lack of competition. If it wasn't for the above, he'd probably have 3 or 4 less GS's than Federer and Nadal.

Given the favorable H2H with Nadal (30 vs. 28) and Federer (27 vs. 23), more GS and Master 1000 titles and weeks as number 1 (including COVID-19 weeks), he'll be considered the GOAT when he retires. He isn't my GOAT.

I mean did Lubijic make a slam final?
How many finals did Nalbandian reach?
Who has the last four ATP finals titles?
Didn’t Alex win gold this year?
Didn’t med go ham this year?
Doesn’t Djokovic have the most matches played against the two and leads both in every major statistic there possibly is?
He’s 60% WR in any finals across all surfaces vs the two
Prime for prime who had the harder comp to go up against?
Isn’t the Joker batting at a 100% in ATP Finals?
Isn’t the Nadal/Joker/Comeback Fed/Murray/War level Wawrinka the golden age of tennis with the hardest comp in the top ten and by far the most parity not close?

I have no idea why this is so hard to understand lol
Wait why are we comparing Djokivic’s out of prime with Fed’s prime?

It’s false saying they are terribly weak when the 2021 top ten (minus the big three) has more slam wins then Federer’s best year 2006’s top ten (minus the big 2).

Face it Djokovic always had the harder path there’s no question about.

He has 4 clay titles and the only one to beat Nadal back to back in clay. Only one to beat Nadal on clay 4 times and the only to beat Nadal 7 times in a row!

What even is this nonsense.

[Doctor MJ]

Let’s just go by slams not even accounting for prestigious awards (Masters, ATP finals, ATP titles)

Between 2003 and 2008 no one won more than one Slam title outside of Nadal/Fed. Fact

Federer to get to 20 from his first 03 to his last 2018. (15)
Nadal from his first 2005 to his last 2020 (15) 20
Djokovic from his first 2008 to his last currently 2021 (13) 20.

From 08 - 2021 Multi Slam wins:

Djokovic - 20
Nadal - 17
Federer - 8
Murray - 3 (9 Finals, World number one in the midst of it all and a gold medal lol)
Wawrinka - 3
Fact.

Don’t even want to bring up the top ten vs top ten either prime vs prime. Seasoned winners and seasoned top ten players year after year after year.

2009-2019 was goat period for men’s tennis and frankly world sports and it’s not close.

You want parity well there it is. I’m not even including singular slam winners either.

People do have to know in 06 vs 21 the top ten minus Fed/Nadal and minus Djokovic/Nadal/Fed has more Slam wins and Prime Fed gets an extra top ten player....... and that’s Old Djokovic and old Nadal with a cancelled slam tournament.... and that’s primetime FedEx Express.

I mean what more do you want?

It’ll be even more funny to me and egg in peoples faces here if:

Tsisti, Med, Theim, Zver, Dim, Rublev all become multi slam winners/multi slam finalists, slam winners and spend year after year in the top ten. 4 have ATP Finals wins each ffs, 2 slams, a gold medal and more to come...

I mean Ivan never made Slam final and Nalbandian only once a finalist...

Now that would be funny asf!

I'd point out that your not addressing the fact that in the Open Era where's been a clear trend of guys peaking before the age of 25.

Not just McEnroe & Borg - the best peak players we saw prior to Federer - who notoriously fell off dramatically at around 25, but even the guys known for better longevity. Jimmy Connors was the gold standard of longevity in this age, but his peak came in 1974 as a 22 year old.

So you're looking at Federer getting the majority of his major by the age of 27 like that's something strange, but what's actually strange is that he kept playing for a decade plus afterward and maintained an elite level that was only surpassed by a couple guys.

I'd also note that Nadal showed something pretty similar to Federer. The bulk of what he was winning came by age 27.

Now, Djokovic is the clear exception to this rule, and again as I've said I'll take Djokovic over anyone peak vs peak, but it's telling that his primary competition all throughout his prime wasn't younger players surpassing him, but two guys even older than he was.

Time will tell what all it means, but it has to be considered how things would have played out had these players had been born in a different order. If Djokovic is born 6 years before Federer instead of vice versa, how would the matchup play out with Federer having closer-to-physical prime edge for the vast majority of their rivalry? It's not something to dismiss lightly.

[DCasey91]

It’s a 300 ELO players ratings difference between PEAK Nadal/Djokovic and PEAK Fed runs.

I mean in Chess terms Fed would never enter the equation ever on who is the GOAT.

It’s pretty self explanatory.

Djokovic/Nadal’s difficulty >>>> Fed’s

Duh there’s now 3 GOAT peaks or near enough along with Murray (ATG) and Wawrinka (Won 3 slams ffs) not 2 and change.

I mean we are comparing Post primes to Peak primes my goodness people do need help on this.

[SweetTouch]

Novak will have the record soon

Washed up FED could only do the unthinkable so many years

Prime fed would of toyed with this dude

Sad joker didn’t go down without a fight