OT: Djokovic one match away from Calendar Grand Slam

[DCasey91]

2007 pre prime Djokovic beat the 1st, 2nd and 3rd seed (Roddick, Nadal and Peak Fed in the finals) in a tournament not done since Becker in 1994 he also won a masters and made the finals of the US open.

Let’s not forget young Federer had his issues too.

... Berdych beat Federer when he was world number one despite only having 5 ATP victories to his name. He also had a neg record early on vs Nalbandian and Hewitt.

People forget quickly about the past.

I mean honestly is best policy there is zero dispute who had the hardest road for his majority of wins and titles peak vs peak, duration vs duration etc.

There is years and years of overlap between the three.

Also this is a fun fact: ALL 3 have taken titles of each other whether it was pre prime, post prime, peak.

Being at the pools or at a club doesn’t matter wherever lol that’s why the discussion is always on.

It’s pretty funny trying to prop up a case when it’s not as strong as Djokovic’s at their best.

Cool you don’t like him fine. Facts don’t care about feelings.

Anyone that says weak era doesn’t know squat about tennis.

[DCasey91]

Novak will have the record soon

Washed up FED could only do the unthinkable so many years

Prime fed would of toyed with this dude

Sad joker didn’t go down without a fight

Prime Fed lost to two teenagers/20 yr olds by the name of Nadal and Djokovic. Which 20 yr old beat the the two time defending champ in the Semi Finals? Joker

Kid Nadal was handling Peak Fed like it was an afterthought on clay lol. But that’s Nadal

Which one of three and which is the youngest to make the Semis in all 4 Slams? Umm Joker

Back in 2008 he also won his first of three ATP finals titles

... told you the overlap is a long ass time .

[DCasey91]

Watch on YouTube

Start of the GOAT was a season before this. Joker such a fitting name for a villian. This is when true parity begins. (2005-2008 was either Nadal/Fed win 11 slams in a row). That’s the back to back champ he’s versing btw and Joker not in his prime.

... Fed looks decent here don’t you reckon?

Joker brought balance to the unbalanced weaker overall force.

Haters gonna hate.

[Doctor MJ]

It’s a 300 ELO players ratings difference between PEAK Nadal/Djokovic and PEAK Fed runs.

I mean in Chess terms Fed would never enter the equation ever on who is the GOAT.

It’s pretty self explanatory.

Djokovic/Nadal’s difficulty >>>> Fed’s

Duh there’s now 3 GOAT peaks or near enough along with Murray (ATG) and Wawrinka (Won 3 slams ffs) not 2 and change.

I mean we are comparing Post primes to Peak primes my goodness people do need help on this.

What data are you looking at?

Here's the site I'm aware of:

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/peakEloRatings

You'll note by this estimation while Djokovic has the edge, Borg, McEnroe, Nadal & Federer all are within 100 of each other by peak.

It also gives Federer the peak edge on grass over Djokovic, and ranks Federer as quite close to Djokovic on hard court (where they rank 2nd & 1st) respectively, meaning that this metric isn't giving Djokovic the huge edge over Federer on these surfaces.

You'll also note by this that oldest peak of the bunch was Djokovic as a 28 year old, which ties into what I said about players peaking as they move toward their mid-20s. The idea of trying to decide who was better simply by win-loss metrics when the older of the two players is literally post the traditional end of prime during the entire run you're looking at is just plain sloppy.

And look, dude, drop the freaking condescension. I can basically guarantee you that I have knowledge going back into the deep past of tennis that dwarfs the vast majority of people you encounter, just like I do with basketball. If you're condescending toward me, then you're just being condescending toward everyone you encounter, and you're missing a lot with that misguided notion that others must know far less.

None of this means that I know more than you, or that I'm right and you're wrong, but check the ego.

[FinnTheHuman]

To me, the biggest reason why Djokovic is the GOAT is how high his peak was. If you watch Djokovic 2011 or 2015, I don't think anybody came close to that level of tennis ever. Not necessarily in terms of results, but how insanely good he looked on the court compared to Nadal and Federer. It was not that they were not playing well, I thought they looked terrific and in their prime in a lot of the early 10's, but Djokovic simply reached another level there, and it didn't look like they had any solution to beat him despite them playing great tennis and dominating the other players until they end up against Novak.

[DCasey91]

Doctor MJ- It’s for the difficulty runs and wins on who they versed all up not their individual ELO rating. Peer comp

2006 Peak season Federer is not anyway shape or form comparable to 2015 and 2016 Djokovic. Nadal’s 2010 also is very much in line.

Age
Djokovic 21
And Federer 21

Djokovic wins out in slams, win %, titles. Better younger, tougher road in his prime, and obv a sustainable longevity. Same deal with Nadal. They all have Pre Prime, Peak, Post Prime, Longevity of extremely high peaks (Big 3 for a reason).

At their Peak level Djokovic obviously had harder comp. Same with Nadal.

Nadal’s resume at 24 is godly though lol.

Overall Djokovic is the top dog on all surfaces especially in Finals play.

It’s easy if you sub in Peak Djokovic, Peak Nadal in Fed’s Peak era the results would be the same or better.

Fact is difficulty on comp alone forget Djokovic leading by every important measure is where he separates himself.

You probably know ratings can’t be argued against.

You can make a case say they all started at the same time and finished at the same time. But then Djokovic has the distinct edge on all surfaces hence the all roundedness of his court wins is undeniable. Nadal is skewed on clay and injury happens, Peak Fed did lose to both younger players (Both of them) 07 for Joker and much earlier for Nadal.

Objectively Peak Federer should have the edge over a very young Nadal but as with history Nadal was a GOAT level player on clay as a teenager. Let’s not forget other multiple important matches on surfaces outside of clay too which is a big factor to be included and not to be remissed. He did go to 5 as a teenager in the Masters and not on his favorite surface against Peak Fed once again.

Personally if you ran it from the beginning it would be Nadal first then Djokovic on second half of who would be the GOAT. Federer no doubt would have big success duh but the evidence favors the other two more.

Remember Federer did have issues as a youngster and was the oldest to breakthrough in his maiden Slam win. A 17 yr old Nadal beat World Number 1 Federer in straight sets and one of six players that year.

In tennis circles and outside say this forum Peak Fed happened in a weaker era of tennis outside of a pre prime aged Nadal it’s not very arguable at all.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Jesus Christ, this is still going? The guy got taken to the woodshed in the biggest match of his career by the most basic player I've ever seen. Two boring pushers with 0 weapons other than the serve doing nothing but lulling the spectators to sleep.

At least it's good to know if I'm ever in need of help I can always just log in here cause realgm experts (usually the same guys) who barely understand basketball btw, cover every single field and remember all the events, games, matches, etc. from 30 or more years ago like they happened yesterday and will in no way turn every god damn discussion into a pissing contest.

[DCasey91]

Jesus Christ, this is still going? The guy got taken to the woodshed in the biggest match of his career by the most basic player I've ever seen. Two pushers with 0 weapons other than the serve doing nothing but lulling the spectators to sleep.

At least it's good to know if I'm ever in need of help I can always just log in here cause realgm experts (usually the same guys) who barely understand basketball btw, cover every single field and remember all the events, games, matches, etc. from 30 or more years ago like they happened yesterday and will in no way turn every god damn discussion into a pissing contest.

Med 2020-2021 probably beats Roddicks very best years lol. Any US folk here are just jealous because in terms of Men’s tennis the whole country hasn’t been in contention for over a decade plus now lol.

Tennis is like the last sport to bring down a result or level of comp. It’s very very objectively driven.

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Btw a World Number 1 Federer did lose to a 17 yr old on not his favorite surface.

How quickly people forget and must be reminded of that fact.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Jesus Christ, this is still going? The guy got taken to the woodshed in the biggest match of his career by the most basic player I've ever seen. Two pushers with 0 weapons other than the serve doing nothing but lulling the spectators to sleep.

At least it's good to know if I'm ever in need of help I can always just log in here cause realgm experts (usually the same guys) who barely understand basketball btw, cover every single field and remember all the events, games, matches, etc. from 30 or more years ago like they happened yesterday and will in no way turn every god damn discussion into a pissing contest.

Med 2020-2021 probably beats Roddicks very best years lol. Any US folk here are just jealous because in terms of Men’s tennis the whole country hasn’t been in contention for over a decade plus now lol.

Tennis is like the last sport to bring down a result or level of comp. It’s very very objectively driven.

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Btw a World Number 1 Federer did lose to a 17 yr old on not his favorite surface.

How quickly people forget and must be reminded of that fact.

He was going for the record number of slams and trying to win all 4 of them in a single season for the first time in like half a century if I'm not mistaken so yeah, it was the biggest match of his career. Other than that, I'm not all that interested in this discussion cause I'm not an expert in every single field there is unlike some of you nor do I care that much so this will be my last post on the topic, I just annoyed with almost every single thread turning into a pissing contest.

[DCasey91]

Nadal also bagled Federer in RG and also went 5 really tight sets as Federer’s favored surface (Wimbledon) as it was considered to be the greatest match ever.

1/17 on break point chances is pretty poor.

Clear gap in ages too. Two younger players (Nadal and funnily enough teenager Murray) beat Federer in his best season.

[HEKTOR]

Medvedev a basic player? Please.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

[naabzor]

Nadal, Djokovic and Federer are incredible tennis player. But the best tennis for the eyes is the one by Federer. So he is my goat. And Nadal I mean maybe was not using doping I dunno but he is suspect.

[Johnny Firpo]

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Of course it was the biggest match of his career, and you know it, just has to compartmentalize is, so it doesn't hurt as much.

[DCasey91]

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Of course it was the biggest match of his career, and you know it, just has to compartmentalize is, so it doesn't hurt as much.

Biggest match of his career? Djokovic vs Nadal has played some bonker barnstormers.

I mean all three have “biggest” type matches lol.

[Johnny Firpo]

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Of course it was the biggest match of his career, and you know it, just has to compartmentalize is, so it doesn't hurt as much.

Biggest match of his career? Djokovic vs Nadal has played some bonker barnstormers.

I mean all three have “biggest” type matches lol.

This was absolutely the most important match of Djokovic's career. His only chance at a CYGS, and with it, he could have had something the others didn't. Even more importantly, he choked badly, which is something no one thought he would do in this one.

[DCasey91]

Cognitive dissonance is absurd. As the villian he gets unfairly criticized.

.... If Fed at his age did what Djokovic this year everybody and their mum would be like undisputed GOAT.

Med is a gun can’t believe he even made the finals!

Nadal? Same thing

Djokovic? Lol he lost to Med he is basic.

People are very picky and choosey here when Tennis isn’t the sport for that.

[FinnTheHuman]

This isn’t Djokovic’s biggest match, only casuals or people that don’t follow tennis think that it is.

Of course it was the biggest match of his career, and you know it, just has to compartmentalize is, so it doesn't hurt as much.

Any GS finals vs Federer or Nadal is bigger than this one when you think about it logically. Looking at those, if he lost any of those finals which he won, he'd be at 19 and Fed or Nadal at 21. Plus many of those were when both him and Fed/Nadal were in their primes, making those more meaningful than these late career ones in the sense of level of tennis. Plus those were against Fed and Nadal, impacting their H2H score. This one is big in part because he was able to be tied with Fed and Nadal at 20 GS, so yeah, pretty impossible to say which match is the biggest of his career, too many are equal from this perspective.

But I'm pretty sure if you asked Novak to choose 1 out of the 2 wins, any GS finals won vs Fed or Nadal or this win vs Medvedev, he'd take any of the wins vs Fed or Nadal, because those impacted the GOAT race significantly more than this win would, judging by the way things currently are. If he gets like 24-25 GS in the end, then that changes, because then he firmly leads the GS count race anyways, while having one calendar slam. But at this point, some of the media calling this the biggest match of his career is pure sensationalism to draw more attention and clicks, and it is factually incorrect, just like you are, in your relentless pursuit to discredit the guy by trying to make this loss seem bigger than it is.

[DCasey91]

Of course it was the biggest match of his career, and you know it, just has to compartmentalize is, so it doesn't hurt as much.

Biggest match of his career? Djokovic vs Nadal has played some bonker barnstormers.

I mean all three have “biggest” type matches lol.

This was absolutely the most important match of Djokovic's career. His only chance at a CYGS, and with it, he could have had something the others didn't. Even more importantly, he choked badly, which is something no one thought he would do in this one.

You’re talking and many others here that don’t know squat speak as if this is Prime Djokovic.

You want choke? Fed way back in 08. Back to back defending champ loses to 20 yr old Djokovic.

But people say nah not his prime. What....

Or what about the 1/17 break point conversion?

What about a 17 yr old beating him when he was world number one first go?

After djokovic’s two best seasons Murray was world number one and Fed has best post prime season in 17.

Go back and forth all you want the results are inarguable. I mean seriously I repeat this is tennis.

Or what about Fed’s best season his losses too? You guessed it pre prime young players not even allowed to drink alcohol in the states (Nadal/Murray).

It’s as if people don’t know Fed has known to choke. Choke isn’t a great word to use for the best tennis players in the world.

I mean Safin was a headcase but on his day could beat anyone seeded pretty comfortably when entering above 20 and beyond. No joke he’d just rock up randomly and smoke a 4 set win over a way higher ranked player no dramas.

Meds the only one ever to beat the world number 1,2,3 in an ATP Finals Title. I repeat the only one ever.

Please go back to watching basketball.

[DCasey91]

It’s pretty cool to see Murrays 2016 ranked so highly on the ratings scale.... told you Djokovic went up against the gauntlet more times. Duh

I dunno casuals who follow basketball think they know about tennis. Bandwagon

Told you it’s sensationalism at it’s finest.

Med basic? Well then Roddick should teach 3 yr olds how to scribble lmao.