OT: Djokovic one match away from Calendar Grand Slam

[G R E Y]

It's no wonder he gets no benefit of the doubt. He comes across as someone in a cult or something, like they know they have the answers like he's some guru or something, on the true path. **** off. I'm really not the shut up and play fan, but holy moly should he ever just shut it.
An whit his parents doing that presser earlier where his mom's all he's in a prison! and his dad's all Serbia stands with you, it's not just one man it's for the seven billion people, we call for a riot like everyone else who's in not the best hotel isn't also there for similar reasons? Like Novax is some sort of special messiah type? This isn't sensitive soft politics begging for a life and freedom because your son who was doing the Lord's work got caught in North Korea, ok?

Jesus. Look who he's surrounded by. No context for normal whatsoever.

and Mary Carillo:

"The people of Flint, Michigan would love to hear that news," Mary Carillo said after hearing the Serbian's claim that "molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said."

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/djokovic-backs-idea-of-turning-polluted-water-into-the-most-healing

Be strong, sad clown, own your truth!

Just my opinion on this:

1. It is very embarrassing for someone like his father or family to try to make this being national security thing, Serbians against the world or similar ****. It is Novak/Australian government/ATP embarrassment.

2. His family has strange beliefs, like Kyrie, but let's not burn them for their beliefs. I mean, you can find all sorts of strange theories everywhere. I read in one book that in the past there were giants on earth, people who lived 900 years, a virgin mother born a child, he walked on the water, make wine of water, healed sick with his touch, died, resurrect...

Agree on your first point.

As to the second, I really don't know what his family believes. It's really more Djokovic and his blatantly anti-scientific stance. I wouldn't equate that with Christianity, though, as there's an entire field of apologetics dedicated to it, one of many that is outside the realm of science.

But whether believer or not, Djokovic's weirdo interests are indefensible in terms of what he's espousing. And in terms of belief, the base standard you can say is 'do no harm' and hopefully there is some good that comes out of following a path.

Djokovic has a big following and influence and what he's espousing with respect to his novax stance (and his wife with the weirdo 5G/Covid conspiracy) and that whole turning dirty water clean with emotions or whatever (which, however it may quasi resemble miracles of a certain someone you mentioned, the core of what the source is and goes from and to is wholly different - Djokovic is playing an uncomfortable association with his 'natural' 'good intentions' approach) is indefensible. That and the $50 per tiny bottle tincture he swears by just has a whiff of someone who is surrounded by yes men who appeal to his thinking he has some kind of power that he only dare allude to. It's ridiculous, and now reality is hitting him in the face. IF he gets his visa approved, the reality will hit all the harder with fan reaction. This will be a huge blow to his reputation and ego.

Wait, will fans be allowed? I hope so...

[BelgradeNugget]

It's no wonder he gets no benefit of the doubt. He comes across as someone in a cult or something, like they know they have the answers like he's some guru or something, on the true path. **** off. I'm really not the shut up and play fan, but holy moly should he ever just shut it.
An whit his parents doing that presser earlier where his mom's all he's in a prison! and his dad's all Serbia stands with you, it's not just one man it's for the seven billion people, we call for a riot like everyone else who's in not the best hotel isn't also there for similar reasons? Like Novax is some sort of special messiah type? This isn't sensitive soft politics begging for a life and freedom because your son who was doing the Lord's work got caught in North Korea, ok?

Jesus. Look who he's surrounded by. No context for normal whatsoever.

and Mary Carillo:

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/djokovic-backs-idea-of-turning-polluted-water-into-the-most-healing

Be strong, sad clown, own your truth!

Just my opinion on this:

1. It is very embarrassing for someone like his father or family to try to make this being national security thing, Serbians against the world or similar ****. It is Novak/Australian government/ATP embarrassment.

2. His family has strange beliefs, like Kyrie, but let's not burn them for their beliefs. I mean, you can find all sorts of strange theories everywhere. I read in one book that in the past there were giants on earth, people who lived 900 years, a virgin mother born a child, he walked on the water, make wine of water, healed sick with his touch, died, resurrect...

Agree on your first point.

As to the second, I really don't know what his family believes. It's really more Djokovic and his blatantly anti-scientific stance. I wouldn't equate that with Christianity, though, as there's an entire field of apologetics dedicated to it, one of many that is outside the realm of science.

But whether believer or not, Djokovic's weirdo interests are indefensible in terms of what he's espousing. And in terms of belief, the base standard you can say is 'do no harm' and hopefully there is some good that comes out of following a path.

We agree that base standard is 'do no harm', and I don't see how believing in cleaning water by love or flat earth like Kyrie, is doing someone harm. But I see everything wrong in trying to harm some people for their beliefs as weird as they must sound to us. By trying to show to this MF Djokovic, that nobody likes, his place, AO government is expelling RENATA VORACOVA from Australia now. She was there for 1 month.

Djokovic reputation was pretty low already, as we all know, because of his beliefs, acts, whatever people don't like with him. Now reputation of Australian government is also falling lower and lower.

Again I'm vaccinated, but can we all agree that covid beat science in this game. Australia had less than 1.500 cases daily just 20 days ago but has 72.000 now. Did RENATA VORACOVA spread disease to all those people. Vaccine can't prevent you from getting disease or spreading it. It may help you have have lighter symptoms. So if you can't protect others but yourself what is the difference. So maybe it is time to stop hunting witches.
The question for us moral people is what to do now. Should AO be canceled? Should it be played without an audience. Or money is more important then people's health? What if after AO numbers go from 72.000 to 300.00 a day? How will all this Novak saga look then?

[BelgradeNugget]

BTW for those who wondered about Djokovic's strange beliefs it all started when he employed Spanish coach - guru Pepe Imanez into his team. His brother was having serious depression. Imanez was life coach who helped him I guess, Djokovic brought Imanez into his team and it resulted in end of cooperation with his coaches Vajda and Beker at the time, and he started acting strange. In the mean time he brought Vajda back, started hugging trees with his wife but it is their right after all.

[G R E Y]

Just my opinion on this:

1. It is very embarrassing for someone like his father or family to try to make this being national security thing, Serbians against the world or similar ****. It is Novak/Australian government/ATP embarrassment.

2. His family has strange beliefs, like Kyrie, but let's not burn them for their beliefs. I mean, you can find all sorts of strange theories everywhere. I read in one book that in the past there were giants on earth, people who lived 900 years, a virgin mother born a child, he walked on the water, make wine of water, healed sick with his touch, died, resurrect...

Agree on your first point.

As to the second, I really don't know what his family believes. It's really more Djokovic and his blatantly anti-scientific stance. I wouldn't equate that with Christianity, though, as there's an entire field of apologetics dedicated to it, one of many that is outside the realm of science.

But whether believer or not, Djokovic's weirdo interests are indefensible in terms of what he's espousing. And in terms of belief, the base standard you can say is 'do no harm' and hopefully there is some good that comes out of following a path.

We agree that base standard is 'do no harm', and I don't see how believing in cleaning water by love or flat earth like Kyrie, is doing someone harm. But I see everything wrong in trying to harm some people for their beliefs as weird as they must sound to us. By trying to show to this MF Djokovic, that nobody likes, his place, AO government is expelling RENATA VORACOVA from Australia now. She was there for 1 month.

Djokovic reputation was pretty low already, as we all know, because of his beliefs, acts, whatever people don't like with him. Now reputation of Australian government is also falling lower and lower.

Again I'm vaccinated, but can we all agree that covid beat science in this game. Australia had less than 1.500 cases daily just 20 days ago but has 72.000 now. Did RENATA VORACOVA spread disease to all those people. Vaccine can't prevent you from getting disease or spreading it. It may help you have have lighter symptoms. So if you can't protect others but yourself what is the difference. So maybe it is time to stop hunting witches.
The question for us moral people is what to do now. Should AO be canceled? Should it be played without an audience. Or money is more important then people's health? What if after AO numbers go from 72.000 to 300.00 a day? How will all this Novak saga look then?

Well, Kyrie and Novak are in predicaments because of their beliefs about the vaccine, so yes it's their choice, but no they won't get special treatment. Also, their choices affect their respective teams and prospective outcomes, Kyrie in the literal sense, Novak in the sense of his extended support, and of course, the tournament.

As far as do no harm, I was referring to their influence with respect to their vaccine stance, not the water or saging things. They have magnified voices for the wrong kind of message to get us through this damn pandemic.

I really don't have enough knowledge to discern the visa issues for Novak or Renata and as these are ongoing events developing in real time, we'll have to wait until the dust settles and the final decisions are made to glean some better insights. I'm sure there's a lot of info we're not now privy to that will hopefully shed light on what is really going on, how many interests are at play, etc.

As for the vaccine efficacy for Covid, I don't want to dismiss your concerns but this isn't the forum to get into all that so best not to distract from the core tennis issues. Thanks for your insights

[BelgradeNugget]

Well, Kyrie and Novak are in predicaments because of their beliefs about the vaccine, so yes it's their choice, but no they won't get special treatment. Also, their choices affect their respective teams and prospective outcomes, Kyrie in the literal sense, Novak in the sense of his extended support, and of course, the tournament.

As far as do no harm, I was referring to their influence with respect to their vaccine stance, not the water or saging things. They have magnified voices for the wrong kind of message to get us through this damn pandemic.

I really don't have enough knowledge to discern the visa issues for Novak or Renata and as these are ongoing events developing in real time, we'll have to wait until the dust settles and the final decisions are made to glean some better insights. I'm sure there's a lot of info we're not now privy to that will hopefully shed light on what is really going on, how many interests are at play, etc.

As for the vaccine efficacy for Covid, I don't want to dismiss your concerns but this isn't the forum to get into all that so best not to distract from the core tennis issues. Thanks for your insights

I think we all agree no body should have special treatment. But this looks like he is having special treatment because of who he was. AO offered unvaccinated players to ask for exception. Renata got one. She had played in a warm-up event in Australia before being detained. Isn't it special treatment against her? Why? Because of Djokovic. He got visa and exception. But he is unpopular so put him on plane and fly him to Serbia he doesn't deserve better and get some political points in process before elections. BTW Novak wasn't actively propagated against vaccine, there was one interview where he expressed concerns and declined to comment from then on. One more thing about vaccines - I think we human society did the best possible job to try to make the best possible vaccines in the shortest possible time, but we are not gods, nature has it say here too.

[Doctor MJ]

Look at this similar to Kyrie situation. He can't play in NY. OK. What it would look like if he was not allowed to play in Indiana because he is famous antivaxxer, flat-earther with weird beliefs? Not good I guess.

So I'm glad you brought up Kyrie, because I see him and Djokovic similarly here.

I'll say first that that the whole state-by-state differences within the US flat out doesn't make a lot of sense to me strategically, but it's being caused by each state getting to make their own decisions.

Re: not allowed to play because he's famous. That's clearly not fair, which I think is your point. Clearly whatever location we're talking about, whoever is making the decisions for that area should be consistent.

Re: because "antivaxxer". Here I feel a need to object to the notion that "antivaxxer" is a protected creed that can allege they are being discriminated against. When something is a matter of public healthy safety, a functioning society needs to be able to follow the best practices established from the medical community.

Re: flat-earther. I'm glad you mentioned this because as a physics teacher this is a particular pet peeve of mine. Simply put: People who assert flat-earth beliefs are not to be taken seriously in physics because they really have no idea what they are talking about. I won't belabor the point, but I will say that when someone who advocates for flat-earth physics they are essentially announcing to the world that they really have no idea how to even get started thinking seriously about science in general, and so were I a vaccine-skeptic, the last thing I'd want is to have Kyrie Irving on my side.

All of that might sound like I'm just dismissive of folks who follow a different paradigm than I do, but I'll tell you I've put a great deal of time in to trying to understand what's happening when something as glaringly non-sensical as flat-earth beliefs start gaining traction.

[Doctor MJ]

It's no wonder he gets no benefit of the doubt. He comes across as someone in a cult or something, like they know they have the answers like he's some guru or something, on the true path. **** off. I'm really not the shut up and play fan, but holy moly should he ever just shut it.
An whit his parents doing that presser earlier where his mom's all he's in a prison! and his dad's all Serbia stands with you, it's not just one man it's for the seven billion people, we call for a riot like everyone else who's in not the best hotel isn't also there for similar reasons? Like Novax is some sort of special messiah type? This isn't sensitive soft politics begging for a life and freedom because your son who was doing the Lord's work got caught in North Korea, ok?

Jesus. Look who he's surrounded by. No context for normal whatsoever.

and Mary Carillo:

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/djokovic-backs-idea-of-turning-polluted-water-into-the-most-healing

Be strong, sad clown, own your truth!

Just my opinion on this:

1. It is very embarrassing for someone like his father or family to try to make this being national security thing, Serbians against the world or similar ****. It is Novak/Australian government/ATP embarrassment.

2. His family has strange beliefs, like Kyrie, but let's not burn them for their beliefs. I mean, you can find all sorts of strange theories everywhere. I read in one book that in the past there were giants on earth, people who lived 900 years, a virgin mother born a child, he walked on the water, make wine of water, healed sick with his touch, died, resurrect...

Agree on your first point.

As to the second, I really don't know what his family believes. It's really more Djokovic and his blatantly anti-scientific stance. I wouldn't equate that with Christianity, though, as there's an entire field of apologetics dedicated to it, one of many that is outside the realm of science.

So, I'm going to go further in the possibly-unwise direction here and say this:

It's really not a coincidence that the Christian community is more likely to follow anti-scientific thought pertaining to vaccines. It wasn't a given, but the reality is that if you're already used to attributing causality to something you have no evidence for, it's easy to start thinking in terms of conspiracy theories - the way conspiracy theories talk about those they believe are behind the conspiracy is basically the same as many Christians talk about Satan after all - and it's easy to start believing certain sources as the inherently correct because of who they are rather than their actual logic.

Not all Christians fall prey to this - I have many Christians in my family, and only some of them fallen - and there are certainly non-Christians (other religious folks and atheists) who fall prey to it to, but religious faith along these lines opens up a particular epistemological door which can then end up letting in more dangerous ideas.

In the end, I'm a firm believer that we need to let people believe whatever they believe, but that doesn't mean we have to let them act upon those beliefs without consequence. If what they believe to be true makes them want to behave in ways that specifically endanger society, wise governmental policy must hold firm against their wishes.

[BelgradeNugget]

Again, I must explain myself if I wasn't clear enough but my point is this.
1. If you make rules stand by them. If no ethery to unvaccinated players is rule - than they can't come in. End of story. But if there are exceptions you can't give exception to someone and then take it back because he is unpopular. Reference to Kyrie was this: he can't play in NY. Rule. End of story. But if this rule doesn't stand in Indiana then you must let him play no matter how unpopular he may be.
2. I'm not against religion but in all religious books you can find some stories that my sound strange to others who don't share their beliefs. So different people believe in different things, some strange to the other
3. We people of science and open mind, must stand by our beliefs but protect the other from us if we think that we are doing them wrong. All the people in the world had restrictions. Unvaccinated people had ever worst restrictions than we had. It was their choice not to take vaccine. But let us not cross the border just to prove how right are we and how wrong and stupid are them.
4. I still can't believe how anyone can believe in flat-earth

[wco81]

Well, Kyrie and Novak are in predicaments because of their beliefs about the vaccine, so yes it's their choice, but no they won't get special treatment. Also, their choices affect their respective teams and prospective outcomes, Kyrie in the literal sense, Novak in the sense of his extended support, and of course, the tournament.

As far as do no harm, I was referring to their influence with respect to their vaccine stance, not the water or saging things. They have magnified voices for the wrong kind of message to get us through this damn pandemic.

Exactly this.

Djokovic and his family are famous and have large social media followings or they will say things which get a lot of media coverage.

They may influence people to make bad decisions like foregoing vaccination.


If they really believe in these things, they have to just stand up to the scrutiny and people going back at them for spreading these ideas.

If they kept most of these things to themselves, they wouldn't get backlash.

[wco81]

Djokovic either lies about testing positive on Dec 16 or he went to some ceremony the very next day, knowing he was positive, and spreading it maskless and indoors.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Read on Twitter

?s=20


What a POS.

[G R E Y]

Even though politics does figure into the equation, there is decidedly some cloak and dagger afoot on part of Djokovic's team for the exemption, how it was obtained, and how it falls short of what the federal government requires.

This interview provides a lot of extra nuances to the situation as of Jan. 7. If you don't have almost an hour, then the first 10-12 minutes provides enough details to get a sense of how complicated - hidden? - certain aspects of this have been, including Djokovic's friend on I think Tennis Australia working to get him an exemption for months.

Part of the reason that this is taking so long is because there's so much convoluted / missing / conflicting info and miscommunication between Victoria authorities and the federal government, Tennis Australia and the federal government, and Djokovic's team woven in amongst them:

Read on Twitter

Really doesn't seem like the exemption was legitimate from what I understand - related to the positive Covid test above and it's verification.

We'll see how it gets ruled.

[Cubbies2120]

Djokovic either lies about testing positive on Dec 16 or he went to some ceremony the very next day, knowing he was positive, and spreading it maskless and indoors.

What a POS.

Or, he took the test on the 16th, went to the event the next day, and found out afterwards that he was actually positive.

My wife took a test on Dec 29 and is STILL waiting for a response...even if she had Covid she'd be over it by now

Every other time we've taken a test we got it within 2-3 days.

[RoyceDa59]

We truly have been blessed these past 20 years to have watched Federer, Nadal and now Djokovic.

I mean Federer came only the scene and despite the challenges from Nadal stealing majors, he secured the most all time and became goat.

And then while he was still winning majors Djokovic came on the scene and starting stealing them as well. And then Djokovic came around and surpassed him!

The 2 greatest of all time with another top 5 all who’s careers over lapped. Insane.

[G R E Y]

Djokovic either lies about testing positive on Dec 16 or he went to some ceremony the very next day, knowing he was positive, and spreading it maskless and indoors.

What a POS.

Or, he took the test on the 16th, went to the event the next day, and found out afterwards that he was actually positive.

My wife took a test on Dec 29 and is STILL waiting for a response...even if she had Covid she'd be over it by now

Every other time we've taken a test we got it within 2-3 days.

Actually he found out nine hours later.

But let's say he didn't know. Who goes to an event after taking a Covid test without waiting for the answer first?

[G R E Y]

Uh oh...

Read on Twitter

Who does he have doing the paperwork? Or did they think it wouldn't get checked or what?

Oh...

Read on Twitter

[Popovich]

CHECKMATE: "Novak Djokovic is a lying, sneaky ass''hole!" - Australian Media secret footage exposed!

Watch on YouTube

[Cubbies2120]

Djokovic either lies about testing positive on Dec 16 or he went to some ceremony the very next day, knowing he was positive, and spreading it maskless and indoors.

What a POS.

Or, he took the test on the 16th, went to the event the next day, and found out afterwards that he was actually positive.

My wife took a test on Dec 29 and is STILL waiting for a response...even if she had Covid she'd be over it by now

Every other time we've taken a test we got it within 2-3 days.

Actually he found out nine hours later.

But let's say he didn't know. Who goes to an event after taking a Covid test without waiting for the answer first?

Assume negative until proven otherwise if you're asymptomatic...if you're testing only cause you were near someone.

Imagine a scenario where it's taking 5-6 days to get tests + results (in my wifes case, still waiting for response).

You go to work, you're sent home on day 1 because a coworker tested positive. Now you're gonna sit at home for 5-6 days until you find out you're negative. You go back into work, work a day, and next day are told that coworker B just tested positive. You go sit at home for 5-6 days and then test negative. And this continues...

No. If I was in a room with someone who has covid, and I have zero symptoms, I'm not gonna sit at home for a week. I'm not gonna go out of my way to be out and about, but I'll continue living my life as normal as I can. If I find out I have covid, then I'd quarantine.

[Popovich]

No. If I was in a room with someone who has covid, and I have zero symptoms, I'm not gonna sit at home for a week. I'm not gonna go out of my way to be out and about, but I'll continue living my life as normal as I can. If I find out I have covid, then I'd quarantine.

Well, that is normal logical, and rational thinking. I agree with it.

[Popovich]

No. If I was in a room with someone who has covid, and I have zero symptoms, I'm not gonna sit at home for a week. I'm not gonna go out of my way to be out and about, but I'll continue living my life as normal as I can. If I find out I have covid, then I'd quarantine.

Well, that is normal logical, and rational thinking. I agree with it.

[Popovich]

No. If I was in a room with someone who has covid, and I have zero symptoms, I'm not gonna sit at home for a week. I'm not gonna go out of my way to be out and about, but I'll continue living my life as normal as I can. If I find out I have covid, then I'd quarantine.

Well, that is normal logical, and rational thinking. I agree with it.
On the other hand, I am even more "extreme" about the whole thing. I would never accept to be submitted to PCR or anty-bodies testing without feeling any symptoms of the disease that are not different from a common cold symptoms.