RealGM

really weak draft ... he might sneak in as a late first rounder. Definitely don't see him making it in the NBA though.

I like Barton a lot, reminds me of a smart Ricky Davis, maybe some Sprewell.

I see this as anything but a weak draft as well, this is a really good draft, it just has only one franchise prospect.

I don't know about counting him out yet. Will has that certain something. Anyone that steps up to a coaches challenge (needed to improve team rebounding) and "literally" says, I'll do it - and does it - has that certain something.

He better start learning Greek or Spanish, because I don't see him going in the first round and I doubt he can secure a guaranteed contract / roster spot as a second rounder. Maybe I'm being cynical, but at his position and size, I don't think he's ready.

think about it - a guy like Sam Young barely is hanging aroudn the NBA and he was best of the best. CDR was 4 finalist in the Naismith... and even he's out of the league. You can't just be a decent player and make the NBA... well it's very rare and they need tremendous upside like a guy like Marc Gasol or Derrick Favors. There are many good Tigers players that didn't make the NBA, Antonio Anderson, Darius Washington, Sean Banks, Billy Smith, David Vaughn, etc.

Sam Young was the best of the best???

What?!

It was a shocker he went early 2nd round, he was a complete reach.

Low BBIQ, inefficient tweener with suspect defense and a weird offensive skill set.

You're trying to equate college success way too much to NBA production, it doesn't work like that.

CDR is out of the league because he has an attitude that NBA teams don't like compared to his skill level compared to the abundant other 8th to 10th man swing men throughout the world that would replace him, along with his ball stopping awkward, average athletic game.

I definitely don't think Barton is a lock 1st rounder or even a lock to stick in the league, but he'll be a relatively early 2nd rounder at worst and at worst make a roster with his 1st year guaranteed IMHO.

He has NBA skills he can hang his hat on, a niche that will allow him to get instant situational minutes in around 75% of the games he's available for that should keep him on a roster long enough to develop if he stays healthy and stays hungry and dedicated to improving.

I think we both agree on where Barton will likely land and I agree he could be emerge as a freak player but I don't think you got my other points. Sam Young and CDR were very special in college IMO. DId I say that means they are great NBA players? Heck, Tyler Hansbrough is a bench player ok. DId you read my sentence about Marc Gasol and Derrick Favors? Josh Childress looked like Michael Jordan out there for Stanford and now he's a 10th man like CDR. So for example, from the body of work of Barton I can't say he is anything as good as Josh Childress so to me I'd not waste my draft pick on him.

I must not have seen some of Will Barton's better work though because I feel he's overrated from the games I saw him in.

Sam Young was the best of the best???

What?!

It was a shocker he went early 2nd round, he was a complete reach.

Low BBIQ, inefficient tweener with suspect defense and a weird offensive skill set.

You're trying to equate college success way too much to NBA production, it doesn't work like that.

CDR is out of the league because he has an attitude that NBA teams don't like compared to his skill level compared to the abundant other 8th to 10th man swing men throughout the world that would replace him, along with his ball stopping awkward, average athletic game.

I definitely don't think Barton is a lock 1st rounder or even a lock to stick in the league, but he'll be a relatively early 2nd rounder at worst and at worst make a roster with his 1st year guaranteed IMHO.

He has NBA skills he can hang his hat on, a niche that will allow him to get instant situational minutes in around 75% of the games he's available for that should keep him on a roster long enough to develop if he stays healthy and stays hungry and dedicated to improving.

What are you talking about? Sam Young was considered by most to be a lock for the first round and slipped due to his advanced age. He was on a team with Dejuan Blair and still grabbing over six rebounds a game. Also, his junior year he developed a three point shot- before that he was a 6'6 workhorse in the paint. Young was a completely self made player with the athleticism to be a defensive presence in the NBA. He is a good defender in the league and an excellent complimentary player. He doesn't have the height to defend elite talent, but he can compensate with hustle etc. He was never a reach to get drafted, especially after the season that Pittsburgh had.

Barton has a low BBIQ and forces way too much, especially driving to the basket and shooting runners. He does have good athleticism and solid tools, and I think that he can increase his potential by developing his body in the NBA, as he is clearly not ready to face grown men at this point. He has a lot of room for growth. I think that his IQ will always probably be below average. But, I think it is up to a GM to evaluate Barton's mental game to see if he has the drive to make changes to his body and work on his game. So far, I am not sure he has shown enough of it at Memphis, but he has a long way to go before anyone should call him lazy.

Sam Young was the definition of low BBIQ coming out of college and it seems like it got worse in the NBA. He had the physicals to play D but in the NBA that has been underwhelming.

And excellent complimentary player? He'll be out of the league within 3 seasons and even if he sticks he's a 10th man to end of the bench fodder.

You are right though, I did forget, for a couple months and by draft day he was mocked as high as last few picks in the first round. I still think he was a reach though.

I don't see Barton as having low BBIQ, I feel he's a touch above average in that department.

I don't know if Barton pans out. His handle is suspect and he's really skinny, but I like his potential and depending who's on board with a very late first to mid second, especially the latter of the range I think he's a really nice high upside pick.

The whole point of my post was stop equating college on paper production without context to NBA potential and then using that thought process to devalue prospects who haven't matched that production and success.

Sam Young was a very good college player but it was glaringly obvious he would be a total nobody in the NBA and that's what he's been. If Memphis hadn't had such a thin bench he would never get the time or opportunities he had and he did little with them other then some sloppy low impact raw #'s.

Define Low BBIQ. In what ways does Sam Young exemplify this? Assist to Turnover? He did not take rushed shots early in the shot clock in college. He has refined the nuances of the game- one of the best shot fakes I've seen.

I should have specified. At times he has shown that he can be an effective complimentary player. (like in the playoffs last year when it mattered) If I recall correctly, he was mocked in the low 20's.

Young doesn't receive playing time because he is not an effective spot up shooter, and his defense isn't so overwhelming one on one that it makes up for it. I personally like his help and feel that he can be gritty at times, but the effort needs to always be there.

I think Sam will stick around for a bit and has some room for growth on the defensive end. Will Barton has a low BBIQ. He constantly drives into traffic and makes some of the most boneheaded plays. (not as much this year as his freshman season though)

I disagree with your assessment of Sam's impact in the playoffs last year. Young started on several occasions and that is more than can be said for most second round picks. I actually would argue that he was a very good pickup relative to his draft position. I actually would make the argument that Barton's mental game along with his physical development are what is holding him back. He is extremely talented and athletic, with a decent floater and some good tools to work with. If he ever gets his head on straight, he is a high upside pick in the 2nd round. But, I would not say that he brings the same value as Sam Young, as most of us thought/think he was a steal relative to his draft position.